.444 Marlin to .410 slug gun?

[Goss]

Hi,

Do you think a .444 Handi Rifle could be reamed to a 410 Shotgun?
Could a gunsmith do this and then re-stamp the barrel to 410 shotgun?
Then using 410 full brass cases and shootong .429" bullets it would be a dandy "410 deer slug gun"

In Ohio we can use 410 slug guns for deer.

Thoughts?

-Tom

[jeager106]

Thoughts?

-Tom

Yes. Why go to the trouble and expense to hoot a spoor excuse of a round at a nobel critter?
Why not just get anothr Handi thing in 410 add sights and go from there?

[KenSel]

jeager,  I've killed many deer and bear with a 410 slug and not a single one of them got up and said " I wish you would have used a more noble cartridge."  It's not a long range gun, but it's dang sure not Poor!  If you have the patience and skills to get close to the animal and make a good shot it is a great choice.  Sadly a lot of people in the woods today lack that so they blame the cartridge or gun.

Ken

[Goss]

Jeager, Your missing the point of this. With the shotgun configured this way, it would be easy to get 44 mag ballistics out of it.  ( something you cannot do out of a standard weak  shotgun action )

[Dinny]

Hello everyone,
  I was kicking this idea around in my head and came up with some questions.  Can .429" bullets be loaded in .410 brass? Normally .410ga slugs are nearly .452" in diameter, hence the .45/.410. Is there any talk in your state of anyone suggesting passing laws similar to Indiana and soon to be Michigan where pistol calibers are/may be permitted in rifles? Also, I am checking with a few .410slug folks to see if the .444 Marlin is the best platform to start with. Maybe a .45LC chamber reamed may be the best bet, I just don't know. If one wanted to spend a bit more($250ish), I know someone that rebores rifle barrels and he may even ream out a smaller barrel to your .410 specs.

Thanks, Dinny(from Iraq)

[Dinny]

I got some feedback from one of my sources and he only suggests Barrel Stubbing to your specs on a H&R/NEF frame. That would make this the most accurate option, but also the most expensive at $300+. I am waiting for others to reply back with their thoughts, I'll post more info when I get it.

Thanks, Dinny (from Iraq)

[billy_56081]

Hello everyone,
  I was kicking this idea around in my head and came up with some questions.  Can .429" bullets be loaded in .410 brass? Normally .410ga slugs are nearly .452" in diameter, hence the .45/.410. Is there any talk in your state of anyone suggesting passing laws similar to Indiana and soon to be Michigan where pistol calibers are/may be permitted in rifles? Also, I am checking with a few .410slug folks to see if the .444 Marlin is the best platform to start with. Maybe a .45LC chamber reamed may be the best bet, I just don't know. If one wanted to spend a bit more($250ish), I know someone that rebores rifle barrels and he may even ream out a smaller barrel to your .410 specs.

Thanks, Dinny(from Iraq)

410 slugs are about 36 caliber not .452. Your best option would be a 45/410 barrel which is bored .452. Firing a 45 colt out of a standard 410 barrel and chamber would be a recipe fopr disaster.






Here are some Hornady sst muzzle loader bullets loaded in brass cased 410. The bullets have a muzzle velocity of about 1500 fps and are 300 grain.

[Goss]

Hi Billy,

What gun are you shooting these out of?  What load / powder are you using?

Thanks, Tom

[Goss]

Hi Dinny,

Thanks for the reply!!

Here in Ohio we'll probably never get to use pistol cartridge rifles. I've talked to them about it and it is a political matter.  GRRR!!

BR, Tom

[billy_56081]

I am shooting these out of a H&R 45/410. While I am using trapdoor data.

[Dinny]

I am shooting these out of a H&R 45/410. While I am using trapdoor data.

Thanks for the info, you have me intrigued with those pretty brass cartridges and SST bullets. Did you have to modify the chamber at all?  How do they shoot? Did you have the brass made by Rocky Mountain Cartridge?

Thanks, Dinny

[coyotejoe]

The .45/.410 idea is a loser on both ends. They pattern very poorly with shot loads from the rifled barrel and accuracy with .45 Colt bullets is very poor because the .45 bullet has to wander through an inch and a half of .410 chamber which is a good .020" larger than the bullet. I have a Super Comanche .45/.410 singleshot pistol which does throw a pattern of 7 1/2 shot useful out to 25 yards, I just don't even try to fire .45 Colts from it. In fact I've removed the rear sight entirely and cut down the front to make it a more useful point and shoot bird gun. It is the choke tube, cut with deep, straight grooves to stop the spin of the shot cup which gives this gun useful shot patterns, although with the .45 caliber smoothbore tube installed the pattern is much larger and still useful at 15 to maybe 20 yards.
 As a gun for both deer and small game you'd be ahead to get a conventional shotgun of at least 20 gauge than to spend a lot of time and money trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[billy_56081]

I am shooting these out of a H&R 45/410. While I am using trapdoor data.

Thanks for the info, you have me intrigued with those pretty brass cartridges and SST bullets. Did you have to modify the chamber at all?  How do they shoot? Did you have the brass made by Rocky Mountain Cartridge?

Thanks, Dinny

Nope just loaded and fired. used my 45 70 dies to load em.

[Dinny]

Billy,
  What did you do about the choke in your barrel?  Just shoot without it? What level of accuracy do you get with that load? How far do you feel comfortable shooting them?

Thanks, Dinny

[Casull]

 

I've killed many deer and bear with a 410 slug and not a single one of them got up and said " I wish you would have used a more noble cartridge." 

You sure wouldn't catch me shooting bears (or deer for that matter) with that anemic of a round.  You're looking at a .36 caliber lead slug weighing about 87 grains and traveling at less than 1800 fps.  That's about like shooting a bear with a round ball out of a .36 caliber blackpowder squirrel rifle.

[Dinny]

I've killed many deer and bear with a 410 slug and not a single one of them got up and said " I wish you would have used a more noble cartridge." 

You sure wouldn't catch me shooting bears (or deer for that matter) with that anemic of a round.  You're looking at a .36 caliber lead slug weighing about 87 grains and traveling at less than 1800 fps.  That's about like shooting a bear with a round ball out of a .36 caliber blackpowder squirrel rifle.

  To each their own.  Come to my land and you will see deer die from one well-placed 114gr .410 ga slug with boring, reliable repeatability.  I will do the same when the bear migrate to S. Indiana.    My only qualm with the .410 slugs is the reduced range, but I try to find the good in everything, my woodsmanship skills have improved and I now get closer to the deer.  I don't like long-range shots when they aren't absolutely necessary, but then again, I hunt in the Midwest.


Thanks, Dinny

[billy_56081]

Dinny. I have the choke removed from my 45/410 as you are supposed to when firing a solid bullet out of one of those barrels. Accuracy has been about 2 inches at 50 yards.

[Casull]

Quote
I've killed many deer and bear with a 410 slug and not a single one of them got up and said " I wish you would have used a more noble cartridge." 


You sure wouldn't catch me shooting bears (or deer for that matter) with that anemic of a round.  You're looking at a .36 caliber lead slug weighing about 87 grains and traveling at less than 1800 fps.  That's about like shooting a bear with a round ball out of a .36 caliber blackpowder squirrel rifle.


  To each their own.  Come to my land and you will see deer die from one well-placed 114gr .410 ga slug with reliable repeatability.  I will do the same when the bear migrate to S. Indiana.    My only qualm with the .410 slugs is the reduced range, but I try to find the good in everything, my woodsmanship skills have improved and I now get closer to the deer.  I don't like long-range shots when they aren't absolutely necessary, but then again, I hunt in the Midwest.


Thanks, Dinny

Just because it can be done, it doesn't mean it should be done.  If I can head shoot squirrels at 50 yards with my .22 bolt action, I could certainly do the same with deer.  But, I won't.

[Dinny]

Billy,
  Thanks for the info. Have you ever recovered any of those SSTs from game or perhaps a sand pile?  Do they expand reliably at those velocities? Do you think that it would be necessary to cut the choked-end off and recrown it at 18+inches?

Thanks, Dinny

[billy_56081]

There is no real choke in this barrel, it is not a regular 410 barrel, but a rifled barrle made to shoot both 45 colt and 410  shotgun.  It has a fully rifled bore with a straight rifled choke tube at the end with straight rifling to stop the shot rotation. this choke tube must be removed when firing a solid bullet or it will be damaged. They call this ballel a survivor barrel.