Gen. Forrest, racist or...

[subdjoe]

First off, HELLO!  I just found this forum, and have spent a wonderful two hours perusing it.  And I thought I would make a contribution. 

As we all know Gen. N.B. Forrest was a racist, and is often held up as an example of the way all Southerners feel about blacks.  Here are some of his words on race relations:

Nathan Bedford Forrest Racist? Read On
Forrest's speech during a meeting of the "Jubilee of Pole Bearers" is a story that needs to be told. Gen. Forrest was the first white man to be invited by this group which was a forerunner of today's Civil Right's group. A reporter of the Memphis Avalanche newspaper was sent to cover the event that included a Southern barbeque supper.

Miss Lou Lewis, daughter of a Pole Bearer member, was introduced to Forrest and she presented the former general a bouquet of flowers as a token of reconciliation, peace and good will. On July 5, 1875, Nathan Bedford Forrest delivered this speech:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the Southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. (Immense applause and laughter.) I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man, to depress none.

(Applause.)

I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand." (Prolonged applause.)

End of speech.

Nathan Bedford Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, in 1875, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.

YEp.  Sounds like a racist to me.

[SouthernByGrace]

And a Wonderful HELLO to you, subdjoe! And WELCOME to "The War Room," as I like to call it.

First of all, let me say that your post is perfect for this forum, as we try to show the TRUTH of what happened, as apposed to the very slanted "truth" being taught in the schools today. Nothing does me more good than to see a Yankee learn the One and Only TRUTH of a certain topic we are discussing here on GBO.  To see them get their bubble busted, if you will, and to think to themselves, "Hey, maybe these guys are onto something here... I might just need to look at this a little closer."

Most Northerners have always seen the Confederates (and all Southerners) as racists. But they can't stand it when we show them different. If they would look a little closer at General Nathan Bedford Forrest's OWN views, they would see that he, like Jefferson Davis, sought to improve the lives of his slaves, even going so far as to set them free when he joined the Confederate Army. What a slap in the face it is to the Yankees to learn that most of Forrest's former slaves CHOSE to fight with him, instead of the Union... True History speaks for itself, no matter what the Northern publishers print in their text books.

subdjoe, I would like to invite you to read a series I posted in this forum called The Yankee Myths of History. They are numbered and are easy to follow. Though they flow better if read in order, to see the progression, a person could certainly see rather quickly that each "Myth" could stand alone and make perfect sense. They cover most of the misconceptions people have about the South and its people. Race relations in the Old South was one of the most popular topics in the series. It starts on page 3. Enjoy!

And again, Welcome to the forum.

SBG
DEO VINDICE

[subdjoe]

Thank you, SBG.  It was a pleasant surprise to find this particular forum.

I have read parts of "Yankee Myths,"  it is a lot to wade through in one sitting, so I'm taking it in smaller servings.  It seems very close to what the Kennedy Bros. wrote in "The South Was Right!"   

I like to dabble in history and the past few years have been looking closely at that turning point in our own, the mid-1800s.  This has led me to read things like "The Slave Narratives" - that WPA project that sent out of work writers to inerview former slaves.  Kind of a shame that couldn't have happened earlier when those who had been slaves as adults could have been interviewed.  I've also been looking into free blacks in the South, black slave owners, black businessmen, and the like. 

The more I dig into Gen. Forrest, the more I'm coming to see him as a humanitarian.  He didn't break up families.  He went out of his way to reunite families when he could by buying them from various owners.  His slaves were fed and clothed at least as well as lower class whites, and had considerable more security.  (not defending chattle slavery, just pointing out that contrary to popular myth, not all slave owners beat every slave every day).  His only official act with the KKK seems to have been his order to it to disband.  And it looks like, from a hint I have found in some documents online, that he may have helped hunt down some who didn't heed that order.  That I have to take with a big question mark since it was very vague and I havn't been able to find that again.  What is taught in the history books doesn't square well with what really happened, does it?   

[Rustyinfla]

   It's been a few years since I read the Kennedy Bros. book but as best I can remember one of the first things they say in the book is that we need to always remember, "The victor gets to write the history."

[BBF]

Rusty:  Triple +

[SouthernByGrace]

You have a sharp eye there, Joe.

I do in fact use The South Was Right to reference a lot of my points. The way I see it, if the Kennedy brothers are willing to go out and gather the information at there own expense, and put it in book form for all of us to see, and then go so far as to include almost 28 pages of reference material and 9 pages of bibliography to prove what they are saying, I'm sort of inclined to believe them. Especially after checking a high percentage of those references for myself.

I also use the Library of Congress, The Official Records: The War of the Rebellion , and personal journals, letters, communique, and, as you mentioned, the Slave Narratives (one of the most compelling sources available), and much more to gather my own information and form my Beliefs, not Opinions.

This is a good thread. Great discussion, gentlemen.

SBG

[Oldshooter]

Gentlemen, Having been a "Nathan Bedford Forrest" Fan since I can remember I can only say that the General was " a man , living in the context of his times and shaped by forces over which he ultimately had no control."

 As the last sentence of a book written about him stated "It is only fitting that Forrest continues to generate controversy, for he certainly did nothing to avoid it while he lived."

Read "A BATTLE FROM THE START" BY Brian Steel Wills

I have said this before and I'll say it again, Had we a few more like him in 1861. We would not have the problems we have today.

[SouthernByGrace]

Thanks for the book suggestion, oldshooter. I'll have to look into that one. Sounds like it would be a doozy. 

SBG

[no guns here]

Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief.

Well, that quote pretty much sums up my feelings.  I'm not a racist by any means.  I'm an equal opportunity hater.  I hate seeing those who aren't industrious, who aren't honest and who act in anyway less than honorably.  Unfortunately that seems to be a majority of folks these days.

I constantly battle to keep my neighborhood clean.  Other folks drop trash and won't pick it up.  We go to the play ground with our 9 year old son.  We ensure that he acts like a young man while he is playing like a boy.  Others do not.  The children curse and make crude sexual jokes and innuendos to the other children.  The parents do not care.  In fact when you ask them to control their children, they become hostile.  I paint my stairwell, kids draw swastikas and write "F YOU" on the walls.  All I ask is that people act civilized and teach their children to act the same way.  Follow the rules and act like ladies and gentlemen.  I don't care if you are black, white, hispanic, asian or a three headed alien with scales...  If you act like trash then you are trash regardless of rank, income, status, color, nationality, origin.

NGH