Author Topic: .33 Winchester.. (Read 2487 times)

spinafish · « **on:** June 18, 2009, 01:44:24 PM »

Would a .33 Winchester chambering be safe in a Contender? What case could one form brass from? I picked up an old Lyman mold awhile back that cast a .338 flat nosed bullet and I believe it was designed for the .33 Winchester. thinking it would be a cool barrel for a Contender.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:56:22 PM »

Brass can be formed from 45-70.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/33_WCF.htm

Lone Star · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2009, 12:27:16 PM »

The biggest problem might be finding safe-pressure loading data. The only SAAMI pressure data I have seen lists the .33 WCF with a maximum chamber pressure of 39,000 CUP. This makes perfect sense as it was originally chambered in the Winchester M1886 in 1902. The .33 WCF's large internal diameter and fast-tapered case will dictate relatively low pressures in the Contender - certainly no higher than the .45-70 Trapdoor loads produce. Still a very cool and uncommon idea. I once considered doing the exact same thing, wish now that I had!

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mcwoodduck · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:27:23 PM »

I am not at home to verify this but I think there is some loading data in Cartridges of the World.
Hit me back with this and I will give you what I can find on Monday.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:29:09 PM »

But just out of curiosity what will the 33 WCF give you that 30-30 or 35 Rem will not?

spinafish · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:08:02 AM »

just to have something different..I have a new to me barrel in .35 Remington that is a hoot to shoot. Have thought about a .338 JDJ, but have always liked the odd stuff. I have an old Hornady manual (Volume II, from ,73) that has data, but doesn't list pressures..but shows their .338 flat point 200 grainer going 200 fps as a max load.

GameHauler · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2009, 01:23:43 PM »

"but shows their .338 flat point 200 grainer going 200 fps as a max load."
My bow shots more than 50% faster than that

Sorry I am sure it was a typo but could no resist

Keith L · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2009, 04:07:04 PM »

That must be one of those sub-sonic whisper rounds, eh?

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:10:49 PM »

The following shows a maximum of 39,000 CUP for the .33 WCF - far too much for the Contender frame.

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

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spinafish · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:50:02 AM »

sorry..that should have read 2200 fps..turn 50 tomorrow..things are going down hill quick!!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:20:22 AM »

I saw the replies and will not give you loading data as the gun will not be able to handle it.
There is another nail in the 33 Win Coffin as well. It is the 33 Win takes a .333 diameter bullet not a .338 and finding projectiles will be difficult. And as you stated above the loading data for this is a 200 grain bullet at 2150 to 2200 fps out of a rifle. Your 35 Rem is doing exactly that with a shorter case.
And if you have typos at 50 what kind of measuring mistake will you make in reforming 45-70 brass?

is the simbol for a wise Ar$e right?

Lone Star · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2009, 09:37:18 AM »

Quote

...the 33 Win takes a .333 diameter bullet not a .338....

Sorry, this is absolutely wrong! Hornady made a 200-grain FN for the .33 WCF and it measures 0.338". COTW states .338" bullets. Better check your facts before condeming the cartridge. It has enough problems without false info being posted about it. Are you over 50 as well?

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spinafish · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2009, 09:41:14 AM »

thanks guys for the replies..J.D. just answered all my questions..too much pressure and way too much back thrust due to the tapered case. I reckon I will have to "settle" for the .338 JDJ one of these days before long. The .33 Winchester is still a very interesting cartridge..

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2009, 11:38:06 AM »

Lone Star.
I was going on what Cartridges of the world has as the bullet diameter. i double checked it twice as 333 sounded strange. The fore runner to the 338 was the 334 that used 334 bullets. I will double check that was well I think it was called the OKH. the K was for Keith as in Elmer. Will the 338 fly down the barrel of a 333 yes. will the pressure go up? A little. Ruger sends .311 bullets down a .308 with their 7.62X39 chambered guns with out any ill effects.
Hornady may also have loaded the rounds light or with different powders to give the same pressure as the 333 bullets so as not to damage any actions.
But I am 41 and could have the 50 thing comming on early. i will double check the book and give you page and column.
I will also see if I can post a picture of the page here.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2009, 11:50:01 AM »

The COTW 4th edition lists the 33WCF as using .338" bullets in their list of obsolete American rifle cartridges, as do all internet references I found.

Tim

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd33winchester.jpg

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=74

spinafish · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2009, 04:00:22 PM »

okay, J.D. mentioned another .338 diameter cartridge for the Contender he has brewed up..the .338 Woodstalker..uses the 8.15 X 46R brass and is less powerful than the .338 JDJ. Anyone have any experience with this one?

securitysix · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2009, 07:17:14 PM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on June 22, 2009, 11:38:06 AM

Ruger sends .311 bullets down a .308 with their 7.62X39 chambered guns with out any ill effects.

I was at the range one day when a guy down the line managed to chamber and fire a .308 Winchester round through his .270 Winchester chambered Ruger 77. The bullet made it onto paper 100 yards down range, albeit not in the same place the .277" projectiles had been landing. He inspected the case to see if it might show why he had a major flyer, and this is when he learned of his mistake. He stopped shooting for the day and had decided to have a gunsmith check his gun before firing it again. Last I heard, he was still shooting that Ruger, but always made sure the only ammo up on the bench when shooting it was .270 ammo.

The point being, Ruger tends to over engineer their guns significantly, so them using a .308 bore on the Mini-30 isn't all that surprising, but the Mini-30 is less accurate than the .223 chambered Mini-14 from what I've heard.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2009, 05:10:11 AM »

Tim,
My 9th edition of COTW has the 33Win as a .333 bullet as well as the keith 333 and 334.
Does anyone have another copy of COTW?

spinafish · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:11:10 AM »

and its a Woodswalker..Not a Woodstalker..!

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:04:04 AM »

The .338 Woodswalker is an excellent cartridge. In my 10" barrel, I run both 180 gr.Nosler BT's and Hornady 200 gr. Spire points, with very good accuracy. Unfortunately, the excellent 200 gr. Flatnose, intended for the .33WCF, and which was perfect for this cartridge, was dropped by Hornady about 5 years ago or so. A 200 gr. can be run @ 2000 fps from the Woodswalker, but the gun and shooter are a bit happier @ about 1900 fps.
The original .338 JDJ was on the .303 British case, is obsolete and is not worthwhile.
The .338 JDJ No. 2 is on the .444 Marlin case, runs a 200 gr. Hornady Spire Point @ ~ 2300 fps and is absolutely outstanding in accuracy and lethality, fully the rival of the .375 JDJ in usefullness.
If I wanted a 10" barrel, I'd pick the Woodswalker and I'd be happy; If I wanted a 14" barrel, I'd pick the .338 JDJ No. 2 and never look back.

Lone Star · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2009, 12:50:35 PM »

Just a few more:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/33_WCF.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.33_Winchester
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=447
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71.htm

If an edition of COTW showed .333", it was a typo. The .333 OKH used .333" bullets from British Kynoch rounds - the .33 WCF's .338" bullets were too light to fit Elmer's theories.

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