Author Topic: American Cars designed to fail  (Read 4157 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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American Cars designed to fail
« on: June 04, 2009, 04:34:33 AM »
Was talking to a friend yesterday and she was complaining about how her American cars fell apart at 100 thousand miles.  She finally got a Toyota, and her Husband got a Honda.  The Honda has over 160,000 miles and the Topyota has over 240,000 miles.  Both are still running strong, with only minor repairs and normal maintenance.

I was reminded of what the Service Manager at the local Ford dealership told me when my 1991 Ford Aerostar started falling apart at 107,000 miles.  The engine developed a cracked head, both heater motors front and rear went out two weeks apart.  The starter went out, the alternator quite, then the radiator split.  All this happened in a three month period.

The service manager told me that ford and the other american car makers had it down to a science.  Everything on the cars and trucks are designed to fail after 100,000 miles.  That way they get to sell you a new car and no one is running around with an old car or truck that just keeps chugging along.  He pointed to my 1987 F-150 and said Ford was loosing money on those trucks with those 300 cid 6 cylinder engines.  They last too long.  At that time my F-150 had 260,000 miles on it.  The wife traded her Aerostar for a new 1997 F-150 against my wishes.

At 105,000 miles the front wheel drive went out and I had to have the front differential rebuilt.  At that point Wife bought a KIA Sportage and gave me her 97 F-150.  At 130,000 miles after replacing the Altanator, and the starter, I was on a trip to Anchorage.  Midway, just outside Cantwell I had three spark plugs blow out of the engine, while running along at 70 mph.  Went back to driving my old 87 F-150.  Wife's KIA now has 160,000 miles and we have only had to have the autolocking front hubs rebuilt.  I attribute that to the fact she drives around all winter (September to March) in 4-wheel drive, highway and city.

My son bought a 2003 Chevy S-10.  At 50,000 miles the warranty expired.  At 60,000 miles the transfer case went out.  He paid for a rebuild.  At around 80,000 miles the front wheel drive went out.  Had to have the hubs and diff rebuilt.  At 85,000 the transfer case went out again.  Chevy dealer refused to touch the transfer case, or truck again.  He said truck was too old and too many miles on it.  The truck was only five years old at that time.  My son took it to a four wheel drive specialist shop.  They advised getting rid of the truck, since those transfer cases were of a real poor design and once they failed rebuilding did not last long.  I replaced the transfer case with a rebuilt and have it on the sale lot.  I and my son both say we will never own a Chevy again. 

I finally sold my 1987 F-150 after it reached 360,000 miles.  The teenager that bought it, wrecked it a year later.  A local garage owner bought the wreck, pulled the 300-6 and put it in a 2003 F-150.  The old technology was a lot better than the new.

My son now drives a Mitsubishi Eclipse during the summer, and a Suzuki Sidekick during the winter.  My wife drives a Mazda RX-8 during the summer and her KIA Sportage during the winter.  I drive a Suzuki Samirai as my daily driver year round, and I do own a F-350 diesel dully for heavy hauling.  I get a hard time from the wife and kid over the Ford.

I hear complaints like this all the time from others that say they will not buy another American car or truck.  This is where the American car makers need to focus their attention, and quite making disposable cars and trucks.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 04:58:24 AM »
we have a lot of trucks with near or over 200000 miles . they are a mix of chevy, dodge and ford . the big question would be if the big 3 made cars that last longer and the price reflected it would people buy them ? Many want big American cars with sub compact pricing .
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Offline curtism1234

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 05:02:41 AM »
We'll just wait 5-10 more years when all these jap cars are pushing 100,000. They'll have the same fail rate as the domestic brand.

Most use the exact same parts anyway  ::)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 05:16:25 AM »
We have 2 yoda trucks , they can't carry what the American trucks do in weight or vol. the sides aren't as high nor the bed quite as large . The metal in the box is weaker also as we put the same pipe rack and tool boxes on them and the metal we attach to rips out . Chevy also splits some but not as much . Dodge and Ford hold up .
What ya'll are comparing is apples to oranges , both have strong and weak points . You have to decide if you want an apple or orange . Just be aware all have some lemons !
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 05:20:55 AM »
a friend of mine has a toyota truck with 250.000 .. so it was time for the family to have a big truck.. dodge ,,i think it was.... at 60.000
 the tranny went completely out on it with nothing but an 110 airconditioner on it..... you talking about a man that will never buy american cars or trucks again....i felt sorry for him..
  yes i have thought mabe american makers shot thier self in the foot....
 100 000 use to be pretty fair milage for motors,, with one clutch already put in at 60 .000
 now with the wet clutch,, the stick shift last as long as the motor if you not loading it dn a lot...the motors are better to ,,,most time...
  its a shame i don t believe in american cars made here anymore...with my present mindset id sure buy american...
anything to put our men back to work....slim

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 05:31:45 AM »
you can get a lemon in any of them my daughter got one from yoda . She will never have another one of them .
I have driven Ford Chevy and Dodge diesel trucks . $ so far . every so often someone say the transmission won't hold up . lets see the Ford had 189000 mi on it when i sold it to a friend it now has over 350000 on it same trans. no major work . First dodge had over 160000 on it same trans. Chevy has 190000 on if same trans and new Dodge not a year old is at 35000 no problem . Maybe some are hard on their ride ? As i tow a low boy trl with 8000 lbs on it and cargo trls up to 24 ft with 7-8000 lbs on then often on hills , off road etc.
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 05:41:03 AM »
 a surenuff fact shootall .. . been hearing about the occasional lemon folks would get hold of,, since the 50s

Offline curtism1234

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 05:43:52 AM »
a friend of mine has a toyota truck with 250.000 .. so it was time for the family to have a big truck.. dodge ,,i think it was.... at 60.000
 the tranny went completely out on it

That's a dodge ram for you

All you have to do is look at the number of 70's and 80's trucks still out there chugging along. The Rams are few and far between.

Unfortunatly for dodge, thier trucks have always had a poor reputation for engines and transmissions.


Certain engines for cars and trucks have a long successfull history. The trick is to do the research and buy the engine that has been around for ages. You get these brand new to the market "new" V8s and they don't last as long as the traditional V8.
Of course people need about 1000 horses to pull their jon boat, so they buy the biggest and newest technology they can get. And it's unproven.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 05:44:44 AM »
not with us !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 05:46:34 AM »
My family has had GM cars & trucks all their lives and we have had very little problems with them.
Most have had well over 100,000 miles when we traded them off.
My last truck before the ones I own now had over 240,000 miles on it when I sold it two years ago and it is still going and it was never in the shop for a major breakdown the whole time I owned it.
The 79 4x4 I own now had over 160,000 miles when I bought it and at 185,000 the motor cut loose.
It now has a new in the crate GM 350 high pro motor with about 10,000 on it now.
The rest of the drive line has never been touched.
It has been repainted.
Maybe we have just been lucky but I doubt that they can design a vehicle that will only last 100,000 miles than go to pot.
That's like saying they can produce ammo that will go bad after a few years.
BOLOGNA!
Most of the time it is how the vehicle is driven & taken care of.
There are some lemons as in the INTERNATIONAL I owned once.
You couldn't take it off the lot without something happening to it.
Still I know others with them and have nothing but good luck.
I don't think the factory had anything to do with it.


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Offline Sourdough

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 06:08:07 AM »
I think a lot of you fellows are missing the point.  The older Dodge Chevy and Ford trucks had good drive trains, that lasted with just a little maintenance.  Starting around the late 80s or early 90s, when Ford scrapped the 300-6, and Dodge scrapped the slant six, longevity and reliability went right out the window.  Prior to that people replaced their cars and trucks because they were tired of them, or the owner died.  Not because the car or truck quite running.  Today Mom gives son or daughter her old car, and the new one Mom buys to replace it will not last long enough to drive it to the kids graduation.

And yes we are high mileage drivers here in Alaska.  It's 400 miles to Anchorage, and we drive it several times a year.  every fishing trip or hunting trip is two to three hundred miles.  The wife averages 50 miles a day just to work and home.  The son averages 100 miles a day to the University, home, and dates or running around with buddies.  I drive at least 75 to 100 miles every day, going to the Gym, or shopping around town, then back home.  It's 20 miles from home to town.  Yesterday I made three trips into Fairbanks and two trips into North Pole.  So yes we are high mileage drivers.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 07:02:55 AM »
a friend of mine has a toyota truck with 250.000 .. so it was time for the family to have a big truck.. dodge ,,i think it was.... at 60.000
 the tranny went completely out on it

That's a dodge ram for you

All you have to do is look at the number of 70's and 80's trucks still out there chugging along. The Rams are few and far between.

Unfortunatly for dodge, thier trucks have always had a poor reputation for engines and transmissions.


Certain engines for cars and trucks have a long successfull history. The trick is to do the research and buy the engine that has been around for ages. You get these brand new to the market "new" V8s and they don't last as long as the traditional V8.
Of course people need about 1000 horses to pull their jon boat, so they buy the biggest and newest technology they can get. And it's unproven.

Let me see, my dodge ram 3500 is going strong, no transmission problems, and my Cummings diesel is running better then the first day I got it.

But most American made cars are like bic lighters, after a while you just throw them away and buy a new one, and with the current Government running the car industry, it sure as hell is not going to get any better.

The new Obama Mobil, smaller than a Volkswagen, and it will be the new peoples car. Only the liberal clowns will want them.  :P
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 07:23:26 AM »
the Obama suitcase ?
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Offline DDZ

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 10:17:52 AM »
A friend of mine was one who always said buy American. He bought a Dodge pickup and found out it was built in Mexico. So the idea of buying a so called American made auto to keep American auto workers happy, dosn't hold water any more. There are many Honda's, Toyoto's, Subaru's, etc. Made in the US.
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Offline Questor

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2009, 11:04:33 AM »
The "American" cars are fine, it's the companies that make them that are problematic.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 11:12:31 AM »
We'll just wait 5-10 more years when all these jap cars are pushing 100,000. They'll have the same fail rate as the domestic brand.

Most use the exact same parts anyway  ::)

Pardner there are jap cars made in this country that have over 300,000 miles on them and are still going!
and if you drive one it dont take 5 to 10 years. I had a 4 wheel drive toyota truck with 300,000 miles on it when I put it on a ranch in 85 to hunt with and as far as I know it still is running!

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Most use the exact same parts anyway 
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Offline skarke

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 11:14:27 AM »
98 suburban sits in the sun with 158K
99 f150 sits in the sun with 188k

Both run like bandits.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 11:14:36 AM »
yotas inline 6 is a stove bolt chevy engine . Go figure !
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Offline mjbgalt

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2009, 12:58:09 PM »
i think i understand your point. but i could drive 100k in one year and the car will not automatically start disassembling itself because i reached its goal.

i would believe the parts aren't built as strongly as they could be. but that has to do with a lot of things, including CAFE standards for mileage the damn government mandates, the cost and weight of the car, etc.

yeah we could have a 1976 Dart in our driveway but it would have no seatbelts or a/c or air bags and get 11 mpg. is that progress?

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Offline mauser98us

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2009, 01:38:05 PM »
Had a 86 F-150 with the 300 inch 6. Put 400 thousand on before I sold it.I now have a 97 R-250 with the powerstoke diesel. It has 300 thousand. on it.It,s getting wore out but I have worked it to death. Both were excellent trucks

Offline LunaticFringeInc

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 08:38:35 PM »
Have a 95 thunderbird, first ford car I have ever owned.  From 60K to 110k its has had three transmissions, leaks oil like a sieve, the interior is faling apart, parts are already getting tough to find and cost you dearly when you can find them, door jam where the door latches to the post is cracking and will cost me some body work to get fixed if the metal is even thick enough to weld close, seat adjustment is broken and needs to be replaced.  This all despite me finally making an attempt at growing up and maturing a little and not driving like a teen ager with a lead foot and babying the car maintenance wise.  Bottom line...Americas big 3 doesnt make a durable product anymore.

Funny thing is I never lost a transmisson in either of my Camaros, one a 1967 and another that was a 1978.  Both were raced and severly punished on the track and the street.  Both rode on until they were hit by a driver doing everything except driving!  Both were rock solid simple vehicles to maintain and work on.  Cant say that about the T-Bird.  I now drive a 1989 Chevy half ton.  Its proven far more reliable than the T-Bird, requires less maintenance and when I do have to do maintenance its a heck of a lot cheaper for parts and its also a lot easier to do the maintence and I dont need a PHD in computer engineering to do the work and get it back together.  At 204K miles wise on it, its running more reliable than my T-Bird with half that much in milage on it.

I will grant you that its nice to plug a diagnostics computer in and find out what the problem with the T-Bird is as I can be lazy and not have to rely on my trouble shooting skills.   The gas consumption on the T-Brid is about 10 more mpg compared to the truck and thats great in a day and age where gas prices can really kill a pay check in a hurry.  Unfortunately I give that advantage up anytime I have to take it to the shop for anything other than a oil change.  What I saved in gas I more than have to make up in cost for repairs and repair parts.

My next vehicle if I have anything to say about it will likely be older, have manual locks and window cranks.  It wont have 11 plastic cup holders, it wont have more power options than you can shake a stick at, it wont have seat warmers, or power seat adjustments and instead of roll stability I will just refrain from driving like an idiot.  I guess the older I get the simpler kinda man I become...

Offline teamnelson

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 09:01:22 PM »
Well ... Government Motors quality is guaranteed to drop. But to insure state owned primacy in the market you can bet greater restrictions on imported competition which will affect quality there. Ever seen a car in Russia?
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Offline oldandslow

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2009, 01:49:19 AM »
Darn. Been driving GM all my life and now I find out reading on the internet that they are junk.  :-[ I have two sitting in my driveway now. Guess I better get rid of them before they fall apart, especially the '78 K-10 that's still chugging along.  ;D

Offline blind ear

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2009, 09:26:57 AM »
Planned obsolence is a fact. If you are old enough you can remember "put the cap back on the magic marker so it won't dry out". The cap is built with holes in it now. A consumer (consumerism) based economy promotes manufactreing driven by consumption. Microsoft operateing systems are that way, won't interface with thier old product and you have to buy a new set up. All this is capitalism and growth/consumer driven.

The opposit of this spectrum of growth and consumerism goes to the point of population/birth control. The fact is this small rock we live on has a limited biological carrying capacity. Some segments are being overtaxed now. Who is in charge of telling us what to do to presreve this small rock in space, Earth, for our children and grand children and great grand children --- --- ---.

If a car lasts too long goverments in Europe tax them out of use.
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Offline Heather

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2009, 11:46:26 AM »
It's good business.  The longer a car last the less often people HAVE to replace them.  Make them to fall apart and sell them more often.  I guess the old days of quality customer care and truly wanting to give the customer a good product for a fair price are just gone.  Now it is see how much $ we can squeeze from the little folks.

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2009, 07:00:33 PM »
oldandslow:  Again you are missing the point.  Your old 78 was build when they built quality products that lasted.  The fact that it is still chugging along it proof of that.  It's the newer ones that will fall apart at just over 100,000 miles, when the warranty runs out.  That way you won't be able to keep it near as long.  And you will have to buy a newer one, so Chevy, Dodge, or Ford can sell you a new truck, more often. 
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2009, 01:27:56 AM »
All you folks that hate American cars can rest easy, soon there will be none. But that will be great for the global market and the coming one world government.
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Offline oldandslow

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2009, 01:55:38 AM »
oldandslow:  Again you are missing the point.  Your old 78 was build when they built quality products that lasted.  The fact that it is still chugging along it proof of that.  It's the newer ones that will fall apart at just over 100,000 miles, when the warranty runs out.  That way you won't be able to keep it near as long.  And you will have to buy a newer one, so Chevy, Dodge, or Ford can sell you a new truck, more often. 

I didn't miss anything. My reply was sarcastic. GM, Ford, and Dodge build trucks that last over a quarter million miles here in the oilfield and that is as tough a job as you can hand a truck.

Offline kix

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2009, 03:17:03 AM »
I'll jump in on this one. I think some of you think us "foreign" car drivers are are just plain old America haters and buying these cars is our BIG protest statement. Here is my experience with domestic vehicles-my first new car was a 1971 Dodge. The radiator rusted out at 10,000 miles,the clutch linkage had an anchor point on the body (as I remember) that constantly tore loose until my Dad fixed it the way it should have been designed from get-go. The front tires would be worn into "slicks" after about 3000 miles.But enough of the POS Dodge,let's move onto my next new car-a 1974 Vega GT. Ah,the Vega,an engineering marvel from Detroit. At 20,000 miles it burned so much oil it looked like a mosquito fogger;I drove round-trip to work 50 miles every day and when I got home I would drop in a qt. of oil.And because of poor steel the body started rusting so bad I had to stuff towels on the dash to keep rain from blowing in. At 6yrs.old and 70,000 miles it was gone.I decided that was enough and bought a !980 Suburu;excellent car for 150,000 miles until my ex-wife traded for a Honda.Then I bought a new 1986 Toyota p/u and still drive it today with 303,000 miles with nothing but normal maintenance.I'm not anti-American;I simply grew tired of being,for lack of a better word,taken.  Kix

Offline Questor

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Re: American Cars designed to fail
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2009, 03:54:36 AM »
My Ford Explorer has over 250,000 miles on it and it has had routine maintenance, including the replacement of some suspension parts that I attribute to normal wear. It's been a very good car.

I will certainly consider buying another one when the time comes.
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