Author Topic: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard (Important-pls look at new photos)  (Read 2148 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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About 9.5 min., get an overview of Leutze park, listen to me b___h and moan about the corroding cannons.  This video has a very detailed description and views of a rifled bronze Spanish cannon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn985R060Lo

Part 2 is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxRPRooaODA

Offline cannonmn

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Offline cannonmn

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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard, Part 1, Introduction
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 12:01:45 PM »
Part 5.  I get progressively more hostile and p.o.'d as I look closely at the progressive environmental damage to these priceless artifacts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWvrS-uuUY

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard, Part 1, Introduction
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 12:03:58 PM »
Part 6 wraps up the bronze guns on the west side of Leutze park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtR3hH21LDw

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard, Part 1, Introduction
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 02:47:09 PM »
Here's the Navy's webpage on the cannons, worth a look if you haven't been there.  It has good still pix of the cannons and good descriptions, plus some about the history.

http://www.history.navy.mil/cannons/cannons.html

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard, Part 1, Introduction
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2009, 04:06:13 PM »
Part 7 shows detailed views of two Revolutionary War American howitzers that the Navy didn't know it had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvFx7-mmgLM


Part 8 shows a neat, small 12-pounder bronze howitzer that no one seems to be able to identify, and a once-beautiful heavy Spanish field howitzer that's being eaten up very rapidly by acid rain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZvvlT16s-M


Part 9 shows two Austrian rifled bronze howitzers captured from the Confederates during the Civil War, and two once-beautiful Venetian bronze howitzers which have been heavily damaged by the environment and marred by some idiot who was welding or brazing on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwB2SAHswlw

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons in the Washington Navy Yard, Part 1, Introduction
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 05:58:07 AM »
The only board where I'm maintaining the "latest and greatest" findings, pronouncements, photos, etc. is on the CMH board, in case you are interested in this topic.  The latest there goes into easy ways to keep outdoor bronze cannons from dissolving from acid rain, which include

1.  Move them indoors (not really rocket science here folks.)

2.  Clean loose crud off, dry 'em completely, then paint 'em any color you want-turquoise if you want to preserve the present color.

If you want more details, my latest discussion began on CMH board on 4 June, here's the link, but I don't know if the link will work for you unless you are a member.

Non-members can get to that forum also but it takes a few steps as I recall.

http://military-historians.org/company/amtest/CMHForum/CMH.cgi/read/7120

Anyway, here's a prime example of why it is good to keep bronze cannons painted if they have to stay outside.  Look at the very sharp lines that remain, and lack of blue-green runoff on the concrete.  This cannon is not corroding at all as far as I can tell.

If you want to help support this preservation movement, write to the Navy History and Heritage Command, Washington DC.  I realize now I spread myself too thin last year trying to take on the Army and Navy both, so now I'm concentrating on the Navy and the Washington Navy Yard in particular.  If you share my concern about the ongoing destruction of these priceless historical treasures, please write to:

RDML DeLoach (Ret.)
Director, Naval History & Heritage Command
805 Kidder Breese Street SE
Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5060


Brief slideshow:

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/forums35/?action=view&current=9dcee6e7.pbw


Offline cannonmn

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As you can see in my August 1980 photos of these two bronze cannons at the Navy Yard, the Navy formerly kept these bronze cannons painted.  I'm guessing they were last painted in the 1960's since by the time the photos were taken, the cannons have lost some of their paint.  The reason the cannons are literally dissolving away in the rain at this time is that they aren't being kept painted or protected in any other way from the acid rain.



Offline subdjoe

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Hmmmm....I wonder if there is an "Adopt a Gun" program similar to the "Adopt a Highway" program.  Obviously it would take someone with some training so people don't do more harm than good.  But even some light cleaning and a clear coat would help. 

Or, maybe it could be a project for some midshipmen.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline cannonmn

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Thanks for the comment, things like that are being considered to propose to the Navy.  However, they have gone on record as saying they won't do anything until a proper study is done.  Since there's no funding for such a study, there we are!  I am actively looking for a metallurgist or chemist who would donate his time to do such a study for the Navy.  Here's my study:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OCocX5pU0

Offline subdjoe

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They need a proper study?  That might be just the ticket for a senior year project for a midshipman!
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline cannonmn

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What do you think of this draft letter?
__________________________________________

(personal header)

June 19, 2009
RDML DeLoach (Ret.)
Director, Naval History and Heritage Command
805 Kidder Breese Street SE
Washington Navy Yard, DC
20374-5060

Dear Admiral,
I exchanged letters with the Naval District Washington last year regarding the deterioration of the bronze cannons in Leutze Park, Washington Navy Yard.  To quote from NDW’s letter of 27 August 2008, “we have decided to keep the guns on display outdoors while awaiting professional treatment.”  The letter also declined my offer of assistance.

Earlier this month I made a detailed re-examination of each of the bronze cannons in Leutze Park, and recorded my observations on ten short videotapes.   I have since put the videos on the “you-tube” website.  I noted the continuing corrosion, evidence of toxic runoff of corrosion products (copper sulfate and other toxic copper compounds) from the cannons into the ground, and specifically the loss of important markings on the cannons.  My video at this url:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OCocX5pU0  clearly shows the disappearance of important markings on one valuable bronze howitzer over a span of only ten months, as well as unmistakable evidence of toxic chemical runoff into the soil.

I’d like to help the Navy resolve this embarrassing issue.  The cannons are dissolving and the soil is continuing to absorb toxic contaminants.  I’m sure you know government employees can be held civilly and criminally liable for knowingly allowing environmental pollution and willful neglect of valuable historic property.

If you would allow me to suggest a simple solution, here it is.  The cannons in Leutze Park were once painted black, and when I first inspected and photographed them in 1980, a number retained most of their black paint.  Black paint keeps acid rain, bird droppings, and direct sunlight from attacking the bronze.  You can see clear evidence of the successful application of black paint to bronze by looking at the small bronze howitzer (Reilly’s book, No. 11, pp. 68) which has been kept outdoors in black paint for a long time.  There is no evidence of corrosion on the cannon, nor toxic runoff on the concrete mounting. 


Extending this method to other cannons would involve carefully removing loose corrosion products, drying the bronze completely inside and out, sealing the vent and bore, and applying a suitable primer coat, then a good grade of ordinary black paint.  This would protect each cannon for perhaps 20 years, based on my experience using black paint on outdoor cast-iron cannons.  Only a removable type of paint should be used, not epoxy paint, so the process is easily reversible in accordance with established conservation practices.

I’m not partial to any particular method of conservation, but clearly something needs to be done now.  If I can be of any assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

xxx

Offline Swampman

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Offline Double D

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What do you think of this draft letter?
__________________________________________

(personal header)

June 19, 2009
RDML DeLoach (Ret.)
Director, Naval History and Heritage Command
805 Kidder Breese Street SE
Washington Navy Yard, DC
20374-5060

Dear Admiral,
I exchanged letters with the Naval District Washington last year regarding the deterioration of the bronze cannons in Leutze Park, Washington Navy Yard.  To quote from NDW’s letter of 27 August 2008, “we have decided to keep the guns on display outdoors while awaiting professional treatment.”  The letter also declined my offer of assistance.

Earlier this month I made a detailed re-examination of each of the bronze cannons in Leutze Park, and recorded my observations on ten short videotapes.   I have since put the videos on the “you-tube” website.  I noted the continuing corrosion, evidence of toxic runoff of corrosion products (copper sulfate and other toxic copper compounds) from the cannons into the ground, and specifically the loss of important markings on the cannons.  My video at this url:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OCocX5pU0  clearly shows the disappearance of important markings on one valuable bronze howitzer over a span of only ten months, as well as unmistakable evidence of toxic chemical runoff into the soil.

I’d like to help the Navy resolve this embarrassing issue.  The cannons are dissolving and the soil is continuing to absorb toxic contaminants.  I’m sure I don’t need to remind you that government employees can be held civily and criminally liable for knowingly allowing environmental pollution and wilfull neglect of valuable historic property.

If you would allow me to suggest a simple solution, here it is.  The cannons in Leutze Park were once painted black, and when I first inspected and photographed them in 1980, a number retained most of their black paint.  Black paint keeps acid rain, bird droppings, and direct sunlight from attacking the bronze.  You can see clear evidence of the successful application of black paint to bronze by looking at the small bronze howitzer (Reilly’s book, No. 11, pp. 68) which has been kept outdoors in black paint for a long time.  There is no evidence of corrosion on the cannon, nor toxic runoff on the concrete mounting. 


Extending this method to other cannons would involve carefully removing loose corrosion products, drying the bronze completely inside and out, sealing the vent and bore, and applying a suitable primer coat, then a good grade of ordinary black paint.  This would protect each cannon for perhaps 20 years, based on my experience using black paint on outdoor cast-iron cannons.  Only a removable type of paint should be used, not epoxy paint, so the process is easily reversible in accordance with established conservation practices.

I’m not partial to any particular method of conservation, but clearly something needs to be done now.  If I can be of any assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

xxx

My suggestion is in bold in your letter.

Offline cannonmn

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civily and criminally liable for knowingly allowing environmental pollution and wilfull neglect of valuable historic property.

Sounds good DD, I've updated it.  Thanks.

Offline GGaskill

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Are you sure the RDML is the correct abbreviation of the person's rank?  Could be, I guess; a one star is a RDML and a two star is a RADM.  Both are Rear Admirals.  See this Navy page.
GG
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Offline cannonmn

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Thanks.  Yes I called his office to make sure what proper syntax was, and they told me it was RDML.  To make it more complicated, he's retired, and is actually a civilian senior executive service grade, but RDML (Ret.) is what they said to use.  He's not gonna starve anyway now that retired officers who become senior executives get their full retired pay plus Civil Service, he's well over $200K I'm sure.

Offline GGaskill

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It's important to get that stuff right as that kind of guy, especially a Navy guy, thinks that stuff is really important.  If you got it wrong, he probably wouldn't even read your letter, even if it were telling him he had just won the MegaMillions lotto for $200 million.
GG
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Are there some types of 'black paint' that would be better than others?  If so you could mention it.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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U.S.Army Retired
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Offline cannonmn

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he probably wouldn't even read your letter

He has a staff that actually gets most of the letters for action.  It has to be something exceptional to go to him personally, although the staff may mention it to him.

Letter or no letter, I've made 10 videos and the one showing the disappearing marks on that howitzer is getting quite a few views.  Sooner or later some people in Congress, at the EPA, or DOD Inspector General will get word of what's going on and someone at the Navy Yard is going to be sorry they ignored this for so long.

If any of your Congressmen or Senators are on the House or Senate Appropriations Committees, or Armed Services Committees, definitely write to them, they have purse power over the Navy and the Navy is eager to please them.





Offline cannonmn

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Are there some types of 'black paint' that would be better than others?  If so you could mention it.

The primer used is probably more important than the outer coat.  Anyway, I didn't want to get too far into details since the Navy is still stonewalling at this point, determined to do absolutely nothing as long as possible.  I think my job is to encourage them to do something, anything really, even if only to get some professional in there to look at the cannons.  He's probably gonna say "They are corroding, the acid rain and bird poop cause the copper in the bronze to combine with sulfur and chlorine and nitrogen to make soluble compounds which then wash off into the ground, leaving the cannon a bit smaller each time it rains."  But he'll charge a lot of money to tell them that.

Offline GGaskill

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But he'll charge a lot of money to tell them that.

Well, that's the way things work inside the Beltway.  The government bureaucrats don't want to risk making any decisions themselves so the spend the taxpayers money on expensive outside consultants with PhD's who write learned papers and collect hefty fees.  The consulting fee in this case would likely be more than the cost to clean and paint the barrels (unless they hire outside contractors to do the work.)    >:(

I can't believe they don't have some junior enlisted men around who would rather do this than police up cigarette butts.
GG
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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...
I can't believe they don't have some junior enlisted men around who would rather do this than police up cigarette butts.

Considering WHERE it is, the junior enlisted man is an E-8 promotable.   ;D
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline cannonmn

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I can't believe they don't have some junior enlisted men around who would rather do this than police up cigarette butts.

Believe it or not they don't, or what goes on is about the same as not having any.  In the "new Navy" sailors spend a lot of time in schools learning high-tech stuff and don't do routine labor.  All the grounds-type maintenance is contracted out and is done by contractors who have a workforce of 100% Mexican immigrants, about the only people who will do that kind of work in this area.

Offline cannonmn

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When I went to photograph the cannons on August 31, 2008, I took along a clean black sock so I could see whether the powdery-looking corrosion products would come off of the cannons easily.  They do.  This shows how the solid, insoluble corrosion products rub right off.  The cannon in the photo was one of the many Spanish field guns on display.  The white stuff remains on the gun, retained by the cracks and crevices in the rough surface  when the soluble copper salts wash off.  The "whiter" a corroded bronze gun looks, the rougher its surface is, enabling it to hold onto more of the white corrosion products.  The white stuff will wash off later as the bronze that's holding onto it is further corroded.


Offline subdjoe

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May I send a link to this page to my Senators and member of the House?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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May I send a link to this page to my Senators and member of the House?

You mean they don't haunt this forum already?   ;)   I'm shocked! 

Seriously, it's in the public domain.  We're honored that you have respect of others and have extended the courtesy to ask!
You may wish to make it easy for them and cut and paste the salient points so they don't have to wade through all the discussion.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline cannonmn

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Joe, it wouldn't bother me at all, I can't speak for Grbd, but since the page is publically available...

So that they don't get lost in all the mass of verbiage and shoptalk in this discussion, you might want to put the link to this video near the top, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OCocX5pU0 then a bit of explanation and maybe link the page at bottom if they want more info.  I think that one video about sums it up.  Thanks for your help, and I hope others would join in.

What we're seeing is a crime in the magnitude of millions of dollars of damage, being allowed by the negligence of government employees who think their exalted position and physical control over the cannons will allow them to do nothing and get away with it.  They are very wrong!

Offline cannonmn

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cut and paste the salient points so they don't have to wade through all the discussion.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.  Thanks Cat. 

You all can visit the Washington Navy Yard, it is open to public as long as you come on a weekend if you want to drive your car in.  If you are willing to find a place to park in DC (there are always meters available within a couple of blocks), you can come duriing the week.  If you are interested in cannons and the history of the Navy, seeing it all would take the better part of a day.  You can get an idea of what's there among the 15 or so videos I've put on you-tube about the place.  I won't promise, but if you let me know a week ahead and I can be there to show you around a little, I will.  Avoid driving in downtown DC during morning or evening rush hour.  Parking outside of DC and taking the Metro subway to the Navy Yard metro station (about 5 blocks from Navy Yard) is a good way to avoid car traffic.

The Navy Yard itself is great, its just some of the bureaucrats who have an "attitude" and we're going to change it I'm quite sure.  Letters from senators and congressmen asking embarrassing questions, and those same legislators withholding some of the Navy's annual appropriations until they do what's required is the best way to change their attitude.