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Offline mirage1988

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Click It or Ticket
« on: May 26, 2009, 04:47:03 PM »
Is the seatbelt law a lifesaver or a cash cow for the feds?
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 04:49:42 PM »
Don't see how you can say it's a cash cow for the feds since they don't write the tickets but for sure it is for all police agencies who do. Is it a life saver? Well sure if you are buckled in your chances are far better to survive but no one should be forced to do it if they are ignorant enough not to. Same with helmet laws. BUT I do think that if you are stupid enough to not use a helmet or seat belt and are injured the responsibility should rest on you not on the other driver.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 04:56:55 PM »
Quote from: mirage1988 on May 26, 2009, 04:47:03 PM
Is the seatbelt law a lifesaver or a cash cow for the feds?

CASH COW FOR THE "STATES". In Texas the state gets a cut out of every ticket written in every municipality, and county. They even issue grants to small cities with the written agreement they will in turn enforce the Seat Belt Law. I never did.
In Texas, a 16 year old kid can ride a street legal dirt bike in a pair of shorts with no shoes, shirt and  with no helmet, but my wife cannot drive three blocks to the store in her Chrysler 300 Touring without a seat belt, FOR SAFETY REASONS.
The seat belt in reality, has saved lives, and took them. Many seat belt buckles are designed to withstand ONE IMPACT, and will not release after a head on crash. I have cut many to get the victim out of the car.
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2009, 05:04:28 PM »
Drove From Chicago To Minneapolis yesterday (helped my little brother move)
There was not a 5 mile stretch that we didn't see a trooper,  a caught speeder, a radar trap, or a countie mountie.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 05:27:00 PM »
Know what ya catch in Speed Traps? Answer: Speeeeeeeeeeedeeeeeers! ;)
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 05:32:18 PM »
Those evil speeders- are they buckled up?
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Offline Chilachuck

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 05:43:09 PM »
Dee, I wouldn't mind that if they did not let the brush grow over the speed limit signs or set the signs so you darn near have to lock up the tires to get down to the posted speed.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 05:45:26 PM »
Quote from: Chilachuck on May 26, 2009, 05:43:09 PM
Dee, I wouldn't mind that if they did not let the brush grow over the speed limit signs or set the signs so you darn near have to lock up the tires to get down to the posted speed.

Maybe the DOT officials in Alaska are originally from Louisana. Make's sense!
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 06:09:31 PM »
Quote from: Dee on May 26, 2009, 05:27:00 PM
Know what ya catch in Speed Traps? Answer: Speeeeeeeeeeedeeeeeers! ;)

True, but it's all in perspective. A local "town" around here consists of 1 gas station at an intersection, and the "town hall"/police station.  They used to have a library too but had to close it.  There's been a restaurant there in the past too (along with a few other businesses that flitter in and out of existence), but they're all closed now.  Last time I wiki'd it the population of this "town" was 97 people.   They take their 1 intersection and for a 0.25 mile stretch through their intersection drop the 55mph speed zone down to 35 mph - and their ONE cop that they keep on staff is notorious for writting people up for ANYTHING over 35 mph - I had a friend in high school written up for going 37 mph through that 35 mph zone.

So yes, it's there to catch speeders, but many speed traps and zones are setup not for any safety or practical reasons, but simply as a revenue stream for police departments.  If they need more funding that's fine - I understand that they need funds to run (heck I'm a government employee myself - though I also know that a cop isn't needed to police a one intersection "town" when the county sheriff's department patrols all around it), but if that's the case it should come from taxes - not deceitful ways to trick people into breaking a law just so that you can fine them.

Seatbelts I feel the same way.  I personally wear mine all the time anyways, but just the thought of those jack@sses on the TV commercials giving their stern little looks and saying "CLICK IT OR TICKET!" makes me want to engage in civil disobedience just for the sake of it.
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Offline Cement Man

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 07:03:04 PM »
For many years my part-time jobs were serving as a Fire-fighter, EMT, and Emergency Rescue Technician on two FD's in the Chicago area, one of which we covered a few miles of I-55 into Chicago.  We handled far more vehicular accidents than all fires combined as I recall, and I just can't see how or why anyone would argue against the survivability factor being more in your favor in most crashes if you are wearing your belt.  If an adult feels that their personal freedom trumps common sense regarding seat belt use - well, that's one thing.  I'll say my piece one time to them, but after that I don't argue with 'em.  No use. 

It really burns my butt to see somebody with a two year old on their lap, or a toddler standing on a seat in a moving vehicle.  It's awful to have to search through a wreck, or in the area of a wreck to find a little one that had no chance.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 07:37:48 PM »
The wife and I always wear our seat belts, and have taught our son to do the same.

Now you mention speeders, got one to tell.  Never mind I'll start a new thread.  Don't want to hi-jack a thread.  Rog 
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Offline no guns here

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 09:24:19 PM »
I can't figure out how posting a speed limit and then ticketing those who don't obey that limit is "deceitful".
If you know where the "speed trap" is, you should be able to get down to speed easily.  Deceit would be if they hid the signs or something like that.  There should be a city limits sign of some type there.  We all know that we can't run 70 mph through a town no matter what size.


My personal feeling is that if a person wants to ride without seatbelts then they should have to post a large bond of some kind to pay for their hospital costs if they have a wreck and are injured.  Why the heck should my rates be high due to their negligence.  The insurance companies have to make their money somewhere.  They make it off of the good drivers not the bad ones.

Same thing goes for motorcyclist's without helmets.  Higher rates, bonds, whatever.  I don't want to pay for them being on life support due to a TBI.



NGH

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Offline Questor

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 01:01:02 AM »
There are two answers:
1) Seat belts do save lives in crashes and it makes a lot of sense to wear one.
2) Police agencies have begun earning money by ticketing for not wearing seat belts. This has nothing to do with public safety, it has to do with revenue.
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Safety first

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 01:13:13 AM »
Quote from: Questor on May 27, 2009, 01:01:02 AM
There are two answers:
1) Seat belts do save lives in crashes and it makes a lot of sense to wear one.
2) Police agencies have begun earning money by ticketing for not wearing seat belts. This has nothing to do with public safety, it has to do with revenue.

That is correct. It is a two fold idea.
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Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 01:13:38 AM »
Quote
This has nothing to do with public safety, it has to do with revenue.

Good point as they (the police) are still ignoring the root cause of the accidents to begin with.
1. tailgating (following to closely)
2. Cutting you off (improper lane usage)
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2009, 01:27:34 AM »
It's a primary offense here in TN.  So, a cop can say he pulled you over because you didn't wear a seat belt and check for DUI etc.

The wife and I got pulled over in Benton TN, doing the speed limit.  The cop asked if I knew why he pulled me over and I said no.  He said it was because my wife didn't have her belt on.  I can assure you, she did.

The fact of the matter is, we just had a conversation about Benton being a speed trap, and she pointed to a cop parked in a parking lot and said "yea, there's one now".  A few hundred yards later we got pulled over, probably because he wanted to see who pointed at him.  We didn't get a ticket by the way.

It's a huge loss of liberty IMO.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2009, 02:18:44 AM »
Quote from: no guns here on May 26, 2009, 09:24:19 PM
I can't figure out how posting a speed limit and then ticketing those who don't obey that limit is "deceitful".
If you know where the "speed trap" is, you should be able to get down to speed easily.  Deceit would be if they hid the signs or something like that.  There should be a city limits sign of some type there.  We all know that we can't run 70 mph through a town no matter what size.

It's deceitful because of the rapid shift in speeds needlessly.  It's true that those of us familiar with the zone DO know it and obey the posted limit (no matter how stupid it is).  It's the transient traffic that gets hit with the fines.  People who are either from out of the area or simpy don't go that direction very often.

And as I said - I wasn't advocating running 70 mph anywhere.  But continuing the 55 mph zone through a "town" that sees no appreciable pickup in vehicle or pedestrian traffic would be completley.  Heck the speed limits down the main roads of the nearest large city are higher than this little poedunk town.  Bottom line is I consider it deceitful to pass laws or setup situations in general that serve no purpose to society other than to hope that people break them as a revenue source, no matter how easy they are to obey. 
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Offline JBlk

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2009, 02:29:10 AM »
Seat bill tickets are what we called Gimmie tickets when I was so employed.They are the type of ticket that you usually don't need to appear in court on but they still count toward your non existant quota.Alot more lives would be saved if more consentration would be placed on speeding and reckless types of driving.More than anything they are a big money maker for the state and the municipality that the issueing officer works for.
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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2009, 02:31:04 AM »
On helmets, I won't ride without one.

On seat belts, they save lives and they can cost them as well.
Back in the late 70s I was in a roll over.
As the car went over it slid me out of the bucket seat.
I was able to grab hold on the bottom of the seat and hold myself down tight.
When the car came to a rest on it's top after 2&1/2 rolls I let go and crawled out the window on the off side.
When the car was rolled back on it's wheels the roof over the drivers seat was mashed below the top of the seat & the steering wheel.
I do believe that had I been buckled in I would not be hear today or at least would have received sever injuries.
I came out of it without a scratch.
I still have that car sitting around back as a reminder of my young and foolish days.

That was just one time when a seat belt might have taken a life.
We will never know?


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Offline jhm

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2009, 03:35:23 AM »
weather or not I am wearing a seat belt, I am still keeping my eyes on the road!!  Now if its SAFETY the law wants to talk abt. lets talk CEL PHONES enough said.   Jim
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2009, 03:56:11 AM »
The seat belt laws like many other (for your own good) laws is not about safety, it is about control. The more stupid laws they have that you obey conditions you to be controlled! It is also one more excuse for the cops to stop and give you a hard time and show you that they are the boss .
                                           Beerbelly
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Offline Dee

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2009, 03:57:28 AM »
LOL!
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2009, 06:25:20 AM »
 my wifes a nurse.. she held a girls head up knowing she was probably
doing damage but with no choice as she wasn t breathing when we got to the wreck.. the emergency people kept her on the job ,while they saved her little girl..my wife blamed herself an the seatbelt,as she knew her neck was broke when she tried to get her breathing while tangled in a choking tight seatbelt.. i ll never forget it,an watching my wifes face..she was in hell that day..slim
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Offline Rustyinfla

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2009, 07:46:55 AM »


  I can tell you that in the 4 1/2 years I spent as a LEO I never unbuckled a dead man.


  If they would tell hospitals they didn't have to treat anyone who didn't have insurance I'd be OK with it but since they won't do that I feel like it's my tax money that is ultimately being saved.
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2009, 08:09:14 AM »
Quote
Dee, I wouldn't mind that if they did not let the brush grow over the speed limit signs or set the signs so you darn near have to lock up the tires to get down to the posted speed.


Most state driver's manuals have a set limit of what speed you can travel if you do not know the posted speed limit.  It's your duty as a driver to know these rules. 

From: Missouri Driver's Manual

ROADWAY MAXIMUM SPEED
Rural interstates and freeways 70
Rural expressways 65
Interstate highways, freeways or expressways 60
within urbanized areas
All other roads and highways not located in an 60
urbanized area
Lettered roads 55
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2009, 08:20:11 AM »
 rusty ive only seen one real situation where seat belt may have caused broken neck..but my wife does believe it caused her neck to be broken..to be fair.. the kid they saved was belted in also.. but i still think we don t need be forced to do these things..the end of that
view has somebody telling me what i have to eat ,to save tax payers money in the future.. the choice is either very little control of a persons choices or almost absolute controll of peoples choices..
 ill always choose to choose my on poisen..its my right,, slim
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2009, 08:38:19 AM »
Quote from: slim rem 7 on May 27, 2009, 08:20:11 AM
rusty ive only seen one real situation where seat belt may have caused broken neck..but my wife does believe it caused her neck to be broken..to be fair.. the kid they saved was belted in also.. but i still think we don t need be forced to do these things..the end of that
view has somebody telling me what i have to eat ,to save tax payers money in the future.. the choice is either very little control of a persons choices or almost absolute controll of peoples choices..
 ill always choose to choose my on poisen..its my right,, slim

Well said.  The liberals are always trying to take the "We're all in this together, so you have to do things our way!" approach.  As I said earlier, I buckle up every time I get in a car.  I've been in 4 crashes since I started driving (only 1 of which was my fault - was a wet road with an existing accident where everyone slammed brakes and I just didn't get stopped in time), and every time I was buckled.  Never been injured (aside from some slight bruising from an airbag).   HOWEVER, I still contend that it should be my own choice.  Even if the law tried to tell me that I had to brush my teeth every morning (which is something I do anyways), I'd still be ticked because when I do it on my own, I'm a free man making a choice.  When the state legally makes me do it, I'm simply a subject obeying the royal decrees.

To put it simply, true freedom means that people have the right to make their choices even if it's the wrong choice.  The state should only step in when there's a DIRECT harm to another individual.  No "my taxes go up" or "that makes my property values go down" nonsense. 
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Offline skifastchad

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2009, 09:48:36 AM »
Here in Wisconsin, the seatbelt fine is $10.  Last time I got caught speeding, I followed some advice I had heard from some friends and took my seatbelt OFF immediately upon seeing the blue lights.  The trooper must have wanted to not write up two tickets or they get another merit badge for seatbelt fines, because he gave me the $10 fine for no seatbelt, and a warning for 12 over.

I say "unclickit for a smaller ticket"  ;D
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Offline Heather

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2009, 10:15:32 AM »
How the government ever got the power to tell us that we had to wear a seat belt is beyond me.

Heather
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Click It or Ticket
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2009, 02:36:23 PM »
Quote from: Rustyinfla on May 27, 2009, 07:46:55 AM


  I can tell you that in the 4 1/2 years I spent as a LEO I never unbuckled a dead man.


  If they would tell hospitals they didn't have to treat anyone who didn't have insurance I'd be OK with it but since they won't do that I feel like it's my tax money that is ultimately being saved.


I'm not doubting your word, but it happens often. I lost my daughter last June in a roll over accident, and she was wearing her seat belt. There were four in her car, and two were wearing and the other two were not.

I think God , there were no more lives lost.

I think wearing the belt will save lives in most cases, but the seat belt law is a money maker, and is hypocritical! After all! Our precious children ride school buses every day in America without them. WHY?
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