Author Topic: New GPS Survey of your front door location.  (Read 1339 times)

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Offline Yankee1

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New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« on: May 18, 2009, 11:54:21 AM »
We have people coming to our front door telling us that they are marking the location of our front door with their hand held GPS units for the government.
I know the general census is not until 2010 so whats up?
I understand that Rohm Emanual is in charge of Acorn performing this.
When we asked why they had to come up to our front door when our address is on the mail box in front of the house they said the coordinates had to be within forty feet.  I'm beginning to feel like a target.
Why is this required?  Our enemies would find this information very useful.
How much is this costing? Why? Could be that intimidation is the purpose.
 Sort of like a red dot from a laser sight showing up on your chest.
                                      Yankee1

Offline Questor

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 12:56:31 PM »
A friend of mine is one of those people taking the GPS surveys and he is an older guy that's having a tough time finding real work. On the surface it looks like a government make-work program, mostly for people in late 50s and 60s. If the government wants addresses of people to census, all they have to do is get the mailing list from the postal service. Instead, they have hired literally an army of people to go from door to door ostensibly to identify 100% of the households. Of course the postal service has already done virtually that, so there is no good reason to actually make a separate survey.

Another crazy thing about the census is that the government spent three billion dollars to develop what amounts to a UPS / FedEx style hand-held computer for conducting the actual census surveys. The development project failed. All they had to do was to take an existing model, change the software that does the entry form, and that would have been it.  A few contractors working for a month could have gotten the whole thing done in about a month, including the database work. Hmmm. Probably a $100,000 contract for development. Training, hardware, and database administration would have been the on-going costs.  But nooooo! They wanted to develop new computers from the ground up, and of course they failed, as over 80% of federal computing contracts do.

Instead, they are doing the census with paper and pencil, the only major data gathering enterprise to be conducted with this technology since the last census.

Now you may be saying to yourself "that stupid old Questor doesn't know what he's talking about. The people that did the GPS survey at my front door did have a hand-held computer." True enough, but it's not a computer that can be used for the census surveys. It's a second type of computer used only for the GPS survey.

To read about the scrapped census computer,
http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20080403_9574.php


By the way, the training classes teaching the people how to take the GPS surveys is a full week long. Basically they teach people how to do work that a chimpanzee could do.
Safety first

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 01:26:05 PM »
I had a young guy pull in my driveway a couple weeks ago. He looked lost. I asked him who he was looking for and he said he was with the census and wanted to know my address. I told him and never thought anything more about it until now. I guess these are the people you are talking about. Dale
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 04:47:42 PM »
I know of utility companies that does something similar with their customers, to dispatch technicians in a more efficient manner dependent on location verses location.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 06:09:53 PM »
Cheese- please reread that, you don't believe everything you read do you?

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 06:38:05 PM »
I just entered my address in Google Earth and it came down about 15 feet from my driveway.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Rustyinfla

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 07:21:12 PM »

 Yep, they drove past my no trespassing sign and came 900' down my driveway to do it.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tuff

Offline Dand

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 10:45:19 PM »
Dang!  I wish I had a fence and gate. I'd tell them to stop there and gps all they want but I don't like the idea of them marking my door no matter what they say.  As it is they may have done it already. I have a big wide driveway and no way to stop a person from wandering right up to my door.  So Rustyinfla did you complain about the trespass or invite them to leave?
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Offline bilmac

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 01:01:18 AM »
You know we are painting big bulls eyes on ourselves by participating in a forum like this. My neighbors said that someone did the same thing at my house. I wonder if anyone else in the neighborhood had their front door marked, or if we greybearders are being given special attention.

I am going to ask around the neighborhood and see if it was just my house that was marked or if it was just a general thing.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 01:37:37 AM »
Quote from: TM7
Interesting Yankee1.  I can think of 10 electronic/surveillence reasons for recording your home's exact GPS coordinates,,,besides blowing it to smithereens... :-\ ..TM7

Dang glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee when I got to that post TM7.  I would have blown it all over the CRT.  Good one.  I'm still chuckling.

Are we not being a bit paranoid here boys?  The technology has been on the Net for a long time to affix the "exact" location of each house in America (and beyond).  These sites are called by names of "Google Earth", "Labins", "TerraServer", "Satellite View of My House", etc. and while not "exact" in their directions, are close enough.  If you know the address, you can find it on an aerial view and work out from there.

Offline Tommyt

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 02:32:30 AM »
In rural areas they started to do this for EMS they put your name and address and it goes through the data then Pin-points your front door, so if you have a farm and your son builds a home , if they need him they will get the right door
Now its every where
 :o I GUESS ::)


EDITED to say:
I Guess you guys don't read my POST
:( . I'm getting a Complex LOL
:(

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 02:47:13 AM »
Yep.  Does Google earth, labins, terraserver, etc. give you coordinates on a 3 dimensional grid format?  Some of the things I was thinking do require exact coordinates.  But nevermind..just drink your coffee... :D  Nothing to see here, just move along....certainly no violation of privacy in any way... ::)

3d GRID as opposed to a regular latitude and longitude?

I assure you that given the advancement of photogrammetry and satellite recon, there is no need to GPS your house in order to get an accurate fix on it. If they have an aerial picture of it, than they have it.  Close enough to drop one down the sewer vent if need be.

Saying that they needed to GPS to get the accurate 3D location of your house as opposed to interpolating it off of all the elevations they have from regular USGS quad sheets is ridiculous.  GPS locations for the "3rd dimension", elevation, are notoriously the most errant.  Whereas, a high res scaled photograph can be fixed and used to identify improvements horizontally to within a foot.  And contours derived from any number of flood studies and other aerial surveys are good to within 2' on an identifiable hard surface.

Certainly, +/- 2 foot meets the criteria of "exact coordinates", that they can achieve in the office without raising the suspicion of having that faux census taker come to your house? 

In order to get sub centimeter accuracy, they will need to set up survey grade GPS, which requires a stationary observation of a few minutes, or a real time kinetic occupation, which requires another stationary GPS survey base unit to be active nearby.  But that only gives the coordinates of where the unit was set up, not the front door.

Or, perhaps, they can get a surveyor out there to get some exact coordinates on your front door?

Now given the inaccuracy of a handheld GPS unit - commerical or military, compared to some desk jockey pixelating your house to +/- 12" horizontally, and 2 feet vertically, I suspect that there is another reason for the GPS location.

Most likely if this is a work program, they want to ensure that the worker actually went to the house!  The worker can't say "I got all this data from these houses" and then provide a location that comes back to the driveway down the street, or worse yet, "Joe's bar and grill"

p.s. I used the term "front door" as an example.  Feel free to replace the term "mushroom patch" if needed.

By the way, it is an invasion of privacy.  My gates are locked.  The driveway is a half mile long.  I told the Census to shove their American Community survey.  IIRC, they are entitled via the Constitution to conduct a census every ten years to know the number of people, the number working, and the number of rooms in a house.

That's all the orange juice they get.

Offline swordfish

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 02:59:07 AM »

They're comin to get us.

PS. this is not a pic of me, just some conspiracy theory nut I found a pic of on-line. He does have a cool cat though, and you can tell the cat thinks he's nuts also.
"If it bleeds we can kill it" Dutch

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 03:05:16 AM »
I know of utility companies that does something similar with their customers, to dispatch technicians in a more efficient manner dependent on location verses location.

Cheese

Cheese- please reread that, you don't believe everything you read do you?

Happens to be true here. At the work place and as a shift supervisor I was able to stand on the running board of an Ameron-IP truck and view the large glass screen and point out the location of a pole where we had wires down.
The driver was unfamilure with this area but the same puter & software gave him a (direct to) option to get to that pole.

The dispatch, by the same token knew exactly where the truck was at via satellite. This can also be true for your common freight outfits and most of the drivers hate this as it does not allow them to bend the rules as much when filling out their bingo cards.

Shift got over and I was on my way home only to hit a cow (not) my northstar told on me because I could not respond and emergency vehicals were sent out.

Once I did get home I found that I had no power. My electrical meter is digital and transmits wireless. A meter man needs not come here anymore to get monthly readings and with a call to the power company, they can quickly tell if the outage is mine alone or if it is one that affects the whole neighboorhood.

I finally got inside my house and everything was back to normal so I entered my address in the google earth, hmmm, looks like I need some trees trimmed and a few shingles replaced :o


Offline williamlayton

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 03:59:16 AM »
This is not an attempt to Hi-jack.
I guess they do this because folks won't post an address that is clearly visible.
Having worked for a utility company for many years and as a realtor for about 10 years, it is amazing that anybody can find a specific address.
I hate when I drive down a street looking for a number and there is not one to be found in the entire block.
How do the EMS do it at night?  GPS!
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Questor

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 04:16:14 AM »
williamlayton:

I never thought of that. It's a very good point. Thanks.
Safety first

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 04:35:40 AM »
Likely they plan to put the information up for sale or just distribute it for free.

You recall they ask things like "yearly income range" and "do you own a TV", right? They consolidate that information by the neighborhood and make it available to Realtors and the like. 

I'm concerned about who gets that information.

For those of you with gates, you might tell them /that/ is your front door as far as they are concerned.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2009, 05:06:00 AM »
I don't understand the reasons for any of it. 

The post office already has lists of where everyone is at and that should be as accurate as the census needs to be. 

I can understand the reasons for mandating a visible number on the outside of the house for the EMS & Police, but more importantly the pizza boy if the need should arise.

As far as a GPS waypoint on my front door, I really don't care.  All our information is already online somewhere and you're kidding yourself if you think you have secrets people can't find out.  If the government wants to waste time using a GPS at my door, then fine. 

If I lived out in the country I'd be a little more suspicious, but even then so what.  Where you live is already a public record, owning firearms isn't a crime.  If anything it'd be nice if the government would come knocking at my door, maybe they'll stay for dinner and take a turn changing diapers while I try to pick up around the house.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2009, 05:50:12 AM »
Cheese- please reread that, you don't believe everything you read do you?

Mirage

This is not something I have read about, I have actually done this GPS work for a utility company.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 06:05:46 AM »
Sorry cheese,
 I didn't know they did that.

Offline myronman3

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2009, 06:13:33 AM »
+1 to cheese.  i have done this work as well.  it saves a ton of time when you have a tech not familiar with the area trying to fix your stuff. 
   everyone is against it UNTIL your internet, cable t.v., power,  or whatever else you are addicted to does not work.  then you start screaming. 
   and no,  i am not giving anyone a pass, least wise the gubment.   but, as said, this information is out there already availble to anyone with a computer.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2009, 06:41:13 AM »

How do the EMS do it at night?  GPS!
Blessings

Finding addresses is tough when they are not posted.  In our area when a 911 call is received it is passed to the responsible fire department who normally rolls a Chief Officer, and an engine for manpower.  At the sametime an ambulance is being responded.  

Some people in rural areas do not know their street address, when asked for an address they will give you a post office.  I was raised in a small cowtown and did not know my street address.  There were no street signs.  One day my folks told me our street address when I was about 12-years old.

I have heard a lot or rual folks complain when the volunteer fire department wants them to post and address.  They cry that it is government intrusion.
I have heard a lot or rural folks complain when the volunteer fire department wants them to post their address.  They cry that it is government intrusion, they complain when the volunteers try and raise funds for a fire truck, ambulance, safety gear, and first aid equipment.  It is all too much governments.

Who do they call when they are down on the floor, those folks who they did not support?  If the volunteers do not know them by name finding a house without and address on it is tough.  I have mine posted on the corner of my driveway.  I pulled the numbers of the house when painting and I appreciate this reminder to get them back up on the house.  My Dad would complain when the fire department was having a fund raiser, he changed his tune when they were loading him into an ambulance one night.

My wife had a medical emergency one night, after making sure that she was stable, I unlocked the front door and turned on outside lights to guide emergency equipment.

Now day’s even undeveloped rural land may have a street address.

I know there are a bunch of us that are older at this site.  The chance of you having a medical emergency is on the increase.  I hear them every day; somebody has fallen off a roof cleaning gutters, or cut themselves.  Last year I was doing some work and the ladder went out from under me.  Luckily I was able to grab a beam and my wife was able to get the ladder back up for me.  I would estimate that ninety percent of emergency calls are medically related.

I need to get after the widow down the street; she does not have her street address posted.  One of these days she may need emergency assistance.  If she is down on the floor there is nobody to turn on the porch light, and no address post to guide responders.  I need to put on my diplomatic hat because I do not want to offend this friend.  Before I approach this I need to get my number reposted, and make sure the numbered sign on the street is visible.  


There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline mirage1988

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 06:57:34 AM »
Something else to think about too, how many of you have navigation systems (like onstar) in your vehicles? The gov't knows everywhere we drive, how fast we're going, they probably will start mailing tickets for speeding and wasting fuel. I will not buy a vehicle that has a built in nav system, especially from gov't motors.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 09:12:13 AM »
Quote from: swordfish
this is not a pic of me, just some conspiracy theory nut I found a pic of on-line.

You lying dog...that is you!   ;)  and you've got a really cool cat that thinks your nuts!   ;) ;)  jk...jk.

Quote from: Siskiyou
One day my folks told me our street address when I was about 12-years old.
Best I can figure, by that point that they had decided to keep you. 

Quote from: mirage1988
Something else to think about too, how many of you have navigation systems (like onstar) in your vehicles...
...add to that the cell phone is probably the most widely distributed "pinpointing" device in everyday use.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 09:40:50 AM »
Land_Owner:  They needed somebody to split the firewood, and haul it into the house.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2009, 11:42:34 AM »
I bet the cat was thinking "Oh great I bet this gets out on the net and all my friends are gonna see it and make fun of my stupid human" He looks really bummed about it.

As for the GPS, I don't care. I am ex navy and still carry a security clearance, They know where I am and prolly what I had for dinner. It aint no big deal ::)..............YET. :o
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline billy_56081

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 03:34:17 PM »

They're comin to get us.

PS. this is not a pic of me, just some conspiracy theory nut I found a pic of on-line. He does have a cool cat though, and you can tell the cat thinks he's nuts also.



TM is that you? You never mentioned you were a cat lover.  ;D
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2009, 01:30:00 PM »
This has certainly spiraled into a unique morass...thanks in large part to SF's photo. 

Good one Siskiyou.  There a bit-o-truth in that.

TM7 - I don't know what is funnier, the written words about swordfish, the series of utterly confused Smiley Faces, or the combination of the two...

No doubt about it, Badnews Bob pulled another perspective from the hillarous ashes and ratched it up another notch.

This sure is a good place to aid digestion after dinner.  It is all shaken and not stirred...

Offline billy_56081

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Re: New GPS Survey of your front door location.
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2009, 05:04:46 PM »
Now the tinfoil hats themselves are funny, but what really cracked me up was the little antennas on top.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.