Author Topic: Grouse and the .22LR (Read 3199 times)

Maritime Storm · « **on:** May 17, 2009, 12:13:08 PM »

Trying to learn from last year's mistakes, thought for part of my season last year that I was missing birds with my rimfire, first Grouse shot after snowfall proved I was actually hitting them but the bullet wasn't dropping them. Is their a happy medium in .22LR for a hollowpoint round that will drop Grouse consistently without blowing them up?

BCB · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:56:41 PM »

I am quite surprised that a 22LR wouldn't effectively kill a grouse. Heck, I've shoot a good many groundhogs with them and they are certainly tougher than any grouse I have ever know...BCB

S.S. · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2009, 03:05:12 PM »

Remove the head, the bird falls dead!
I would actually try something moving a bit slower.
maybe one of the sub-sonic HP rounds by Remington.
Transfer more energy to the bird if it passes through slower.

trotterlg · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:29:36 PM »

I think the reason they made shotguns was to kill birds. Use the proper tool for the job. Larry

bilmac · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:42:04 PM »

Head shots, you don't want to waste a speck of grouse breast.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:53:13 PM »

i think the .22 and .22 magnum are the perfect tool for the job imho. what rounds are you using now?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2009, 04:31:53 PM »

I've killed hundreds of them with a 22... I use Rem. Vipers in my rifles, and yellow jackets in my handguns... Even in cold weather, they still do a great job...

DM

Maritime Storm · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2009, 12:00:45 AM »

I'm currently using Federal Game-Shok .22LR 38gr HP ammo. I'm happy with the accuracy, the round is deadly on Hare. I bought the gun because I figured it would do less meat damage, I never expected it to cause me to wound rather than kill birds. I may have to switch back to my shotgun during bird season and just use it for Hare.

S.S. · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2009, 10:15:23 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on May 21, 2009, 07:29:36 PM

I think the reason they made shotguns was to kill birds. Use the proper tool for the job. Larry

Can't stand picking out bird shot.... Anything I can hunt on the ground, I hunt on the ground.
Shotguns also create a lot of bloodshot meat. .22 short HP is plenty. Rimfire rounds are much cheaper also.

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2009, 03:51:37 PM »

hitting but not dropping a grouse suggests a marginal body hit-I head shoot exclusively-its either a clean hit or a miss

bilmac · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:43:40 AM »

You flush these birds to shoot them with a shotgun and they will put a tree between you and them immediately and you will only get a shot at one in ten you flush.

Keith L · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2009, 02:53:06 AM »

To say nothing of the brush and branches that get in the way of properly mounting the shotgun, and the delay caused by how startled you can be when the flush at your feet. God, I love grouse hunting.

Maritime Storm · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2009, 03:17:39 AM »

Most of the shots I was able to get off before they flush is a body shot. When they co-operated I aimed for the head.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2009, 03:46:35 AM »

Why hollow point? The expansion in feathers causes the bullet to slow and penetrate the body less. Solids are all I use, even in shorts. If you want a sub-sonic, try the Aquila 22 Sniper. Shoots a 60 gr bullet off a 22 short cartridge (same OAL as 22 LR) that smacks with a surprising whalop.

Maritime Storm · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2009, 01:23:25 AM »

I wish less penetration was the issue here, the problem is even the hollowpoint seem to zip through them without expanding or releasing any energy into the bird.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2009, 02:34:52 AM »

Quote from: Maritime Storm on May 26, 2009, 01:23:25 AM

I wish less penetration was the issue here, the problem is even the hollowpoint seem to zip through them without expanding or releasing any energy into the bird.

I haven't found that to be a problem with Vipers... They seem to transmit enough energy with their well designed bullet to do the job. I use the HP version in my handguns, because their shorter bbl. needs the HP design to make up for the velocity loss. Like i said eariler, i've shot hundreds of birds with them to know how well they work.

It's just not true that "if you shoot at the head, you will have a clean hit, or a clean miss"! I've always had a good hunting dog, and my dog has found more than one bird that flew off. One time a friend shot a bird that flew up and out of sight. When my dog found it 1/2 hour later, he brought it to me with the beak shot off. There's NO way it would have lived, and there's NO way we would have found it without a good dog!

DM

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:28:53 AM »

Nope sadly no matter the target animal the old saw about head shots being clean hits or clean misses doesn't work out in the real world. There are a lot of ways to hit and lose an animal with a head shot and never realize it died a long slow lingering death.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2009, 01:39:33 PM »

Ditto to Greybeard. I've head shot squirrels before and had them run twenty feet in a straight line with a hole in their head. If it had been into brush I'd never have even known I hit them.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2009, 02:42:57 PM »

Even the deer hunters repeat that BS, and with the same outcome! Only a moron wouldn't feel bad for this deer...

DM

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2009, 03:46:52 PM »

Pitiful. Just back of the elbow or don't shoot.

Graybeard · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2009, 05:08:13 PM »

I'll never forget my first and still most vivid memory of how a head shot isn't a clean kill or clean miss each time.

As a boy I had dad's old JC Higgins pump 12 ga and me and my friend were at his grand parent's farm. There were a pile of small birds on the ground and I decided to ground sluice them and see how many I could kill. Surprisingly to me not nearly as many as expected.

Several flew away and some were clearly limping in flight from non immediately fatal wounds. One flew well over 100 yards and then just fell to the ground. We walked down to take a look at it. When I picked it up the brain fell out of the skull. It had been hit so hard it took the top off the head and the brain litterally fell out when I picked it up and it flew over 100 yards.

Never again after that did I have any misunderstanding that a head shot is a clean kill or a clean miss. That's just not real world fact.

Keith L · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2009, 09:12:41 PM »

At deer camp a few years ago one of the guys put a doe down that had most of her muzzle shot off, and another was taken that had a pistol bullet, unexpanded, that had gone in under the skin on her head and never broke any bone.

rampart · « **Reply #22 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:27:57 AM »

Hi All...new member here. I've recently been thinking about trying grouse hunting and am gathering all the info I can before the season. I am favoring my Ruger MKIII with a red-dot sight, and head shots as my M.O. Someone mentioned the Aguila SS as a good round for this...I'll have to get a box and see how they cycle...On another forum someone mentioned walking slowly and stopping frequently and making clucking noises as a good way to spot them...Can I get some more pointers? I have a .410, but don't like the idea of picking out shot or wasting any meat. I hear 'mountain chicken' is deliscious... Would a 9mm rimfire w/#6 shot be a better or adequate tool? Any info is greatly appreciated..Thanks!

Maritime Storm · « **Reply #23 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:41:09 AM »

Boss, I'll second that anyone who'se ever had to take chicken from the pen to freezer understands the expression "running around like a chiken with it's head cut off" Head shots aren't always reliable. I think in the end I'll heed other advice given and use a shotgun for bird season and .22LR for rabbits. Oh well the safe was just itching for a new 12Ga single to store anyway.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #24 on:** May 31, 2009, 04:47:29 AM »

When I got my first .22 my Dad told me "if you can't hit it in the head don't shoot it with a .22"! I've found that to be very good advise. I too have had grouse and quail fly away after a body shot, squirrels and rabbits make it to a hole. If you knock the head off they may flop around a bit but they ain't goin nowhere except in the pot. In my senior years I've become too shaky to make offhand head shots so my Super Comanche .410 pistol has become my grouse gun, deadly out to 25 yards, which is a long shot in the thick stuff grouse seem to prefer. I've never lost a small game animal I head shot with a .22 but I agree it is not wise on larger animals. Still and all, the fellow who head shoots deer won't lose nearly so many as will the fellow who gut shoots them. Of the "lost" deer I've come across not one was head shot.

300HH · « **Reply #25 on:** June 01, 2009, 07:34:26 AM »

I usually shot them in the back between the wings with a 22LR very effective you just got to wait for them to walk away from you, you need to move slowly so as not to scare them. work for me!

rampart · « **Reply #26 on:** June 01, 2009, 03:08:53 PM »

300HH That sounds like the best way yet...bigger target, effective kill...

Antietamgw · « **Reply #27 on:** June 02, 2009, 12:43:55 PM »

I don't shoot much game with a .22, prefering my 25-20,.32-20 or .38 Special. I keep a .22 in the truck and in the barn though and shoot a ground hog or rat from time to time. For factory stuff, I really like the Winchester Power Point, very effective on ground hogs! Wouldn't figure on using them on anything edible though. Some years back, Paco Kelly over at leverguns.com came up with his accurizer or whatever he called it. Basically, it's a little jig that lets you file a flat point on round nose ammo. I use cast bullets for all hunting and have seen many times how effective a flat point is. I filed a flat point on some "milk carton" promotional ammo and tried it vs. factory round noses on jugs of water. Big difference in the splash factor. Want a permanant record? Shoot a bar of soap. I did this when training our Scouts - when they passed it around, sticking their fingers through the hole, you could see in their eyes the new respect they had for the "power" of that quiet little .22. Shot a few ground hogs and some squirrels that fall with them and found terminal performance much better than solid or HP round noses. Bet with a body shot they would do a good job on grouse and leave you something fit to eat. I envy you having them around to hunt - the very few grouse (ruffed) around us don't sit around for a shot, it's a shotgun game only. An outfitter I hunted bear with in Quebec said they walked or rode the logging roads in the fall and shot them sitting with shotguns. I'd like to go back up sometime with my old Savage M/24 (my first gun) just for that. File a small meplat on some .22's and give it a try, you might be surprised.

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #28 on:** June 02, 2009, 02:00:26 PM »

I have one of Paco's tools somewhere on my bench. It did make solid ammo much more effective with the flat point. At one time CCI marketed a 22 lr with the same design. I think they called it small game bullet. It was marked SGB if I remember correctly. When I shoot grouse with my K22 I usually use cheap hollowpoint ammo and try for the wing butts. Just like turkey with a rifle. Also a small bore shotgun will take grouse nicely on the ground if you aim for the head. Not difficult, but a sure method of a grouse dinner.

I am going to try my .357 and .44's this fall with cast bullets. The flat point is the way to go. I remember Keith saying he shot grouse with the old .45 Colt pointed lead bullet and they would flutter around. So in a solid, the flat point is the way to go.

Dand · « **Reply #29 on:** June 05, 2009, 03:21:10 PM »

We shoot a few grouse and ptarmigan every year with 22lr but all we use are solids - hp make too big of holes and drag a lot of feathers into the meat. Most shots are at 50 - 100 feet with a few out to 150 ft. I think I mostly have Remington Thunderbolt or Federal Lightening ammo. I usually aim for the base of the neck if I can see it. My boys shoot to center of grouse. Mostly use rifles but I often carry a 6 7/8 bbl Ruger mk2. I have had grouse stagger off when taking with the pistol - my sharp eyed 11 yr old has been a great help more than once.

Drillingman was right about a good bird dog. I hunted with a friend who had a good dog and was amazed how many birds he found - but that was shotgunning. The dog I have now just wants to eat the birds so she stays home to trip burglars.

Regarding the 60 Aguila ammo - where do you get a barrel with a tight enough twist to stablize the bullet? I've tried it but it keyholed at very short ranges.

Maritime Storm - just what grouse are you shooting and what ranges? I'm talking spruce grouse and willow ptarmigan. Given your name and the time of year I'm wondering if you are in Blue Grouse country; shooting big birds at longer ranges? Don't have experience with them but might consider a 22 mag and flat point bullets.