Author Topic: Firearms Ownership, Hobby or duty as an American citizen? (Read 3139 times)

rickt300 · « **on:** May 16, 2009, 06:55:09 AM »

Things got a little off topic in a post in Reloading here called "Message from Hornady". A poster there said his firearms ownership was a hobby he is willing to give up if our present socialist/fascist administration says to. In reality the Constitution reads that firearms ownership is a duty for all American males aged between 17 to 45 years of age. Also it is plainly written that we have the right to keep and bear arms to protect our country from enemies both outside the US and from within.

nomosendero · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:04:51 AM »

True, but remember that people like this clown that you are refering to know little & care less about the Constitution, he will make a good slave.

pastorp · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:33:30 AM »

Thats the falacy of our present Homeland security system. The best homeland security is every american citizen armed and ready to defend our borders. I believe that is part of our 2nd ammendments rights/duties.

Where do you get the 17-45 ages. I'm way beyond 45 but still will do what I can to defend our country. Regards,

Default · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2009, 10:41:14 AM »

Armed Americans is why the Japanese didnt atempt a mainland attack on the continental U.S. after Pearl Harbor , Even their own General admitted this when asked after the war why they didnt advance on the mainland ... Guess this particular Officer spent time over here going to school and later with the US Navy ... His response when asked " Why Not? " was ...

After spending the amount of time in the US that he had , had lead him to believe it would be a massacre on their troops due to all the armed citizens ..

So yes we ARE our own standing army , that is what we are and that more to the point is exactly what our great great great grandfathers wanted for us..

Default

Mohawk · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2009, 10:48:24 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on May 16, 2009, 08:33:30 AM

Thats the falacy of our present Homeland security system. The best homeland security is every american citizen armed and ready to defend our borders. I believe that is part of our 2nd ammendments rights/duties.

Where do you get the 17-45 ages. I'm way beyond 45 but still will do what I can to defend our country. Regards,

Exactly. Forget what source I had read it years ago but one of the major reasons Japan didn't continue the attack on Pearl to extend to the mainland was of armed American citizens. It would have been a nightmare for their ground invasion. Would make today's middle east a "rough neighborhood" as opposed to a war zone. Japan would have not got far at all and would have probably been defeated much sooner in the war had they pushed into the lower 48. And also Hitler called of a US invasion for the exact same reason. His commanders knew that it would not be like rolling over unarmed, unexpected east European countries. It meant a ground fight against an angry citizenry, with nothing to lose and that most persons were at least armed with something. And after the limited bombings they would inflict the minute the first foot patrol hit American soil the unpredictablility of over 175 million armed citizens terrified him.

Skunk · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2009, 10:51:31 AM »

Quote from: Default on May 16, 2009, 10:41:14 AM

Armed Americans is why the Japanese didn't attempt a mainland attack on the continental U.S. after Pearl Harbor...

Agreed Default. It's basically the same reason Hitler never tried to invade Switzerland: armed citizens and narrow mountain passages where Hitler's Wehrmacht would have been massacred.

burntmuch · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2009, 01:22:43 PM »

I never thought of it as my duty before. But thats how I feel now. Against foriegn & domestic threat. So duty covers one or two. hobby explains 10 or 15

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2009, 03:07:41 AM »

Quote from: burntmuch on May 16, 2009, 01:22:43 PM

I never thought of it as my duty before. But thats how I feel now. Against foriegn & domestic threat. So duty covers one or two. hobby explains 10 or 15

Yep that about covers it.

magooch · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2009, 03:37:56 AM »

I certainly can't argue with much that has been said, but I sure as hell can't get very excited about a lot of the numbskulls that call themselves Americans owning weapons--unless we're talking about butcher knives, or slingshots. In their hands, even rocks and sticks give me pause.

On the other hand, I don't think that an armed citizenry is a big concern of our present enemy--terrorists. They aren't likely to engage us in close contact battle. We need a very robust military for this fight and the will of the majority of Americans to win. That is our biggest problem.

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2009, 03:39:25 AM »

The big problem I'll have is with the enemy from within. If we have to go to war against our own country, I'm gonna have a hell of an ordeal pulling the hammer back on an American soldier, or my local Sherriff's deputy. I might want to put it to my own head first. Just a thought.

Pete

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2009, 03:47:22 AM »

Most folks are law abiding citizens.

rickt300 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2009, 06:39:22 AM »

Militia, in the U.S., all able bodied males between 18 and 45 years old, who are not already members of the regular armed forces: members of the National gaurd and of the regular amed forces constitute the organized militia, all others, the unorganized militia. This is the slightly abreviated definition in a "Webster's New World Dictionary". Swampman, you are a disgrace as an American citizen. I am pretty sure that the standing military won't start disarming American citizens, I can possibly see some police departments doing the wrong thing as in what happened in Louisiana during Katrina though laws have since been passed against disarming citizens during catastrophy. Magooch, that is one stupid thing to say, many Americans have served in the armed forces and can be very dangerous to Terrorists or any other armed group. It is also illegal for the government to use the military on our soil "Posse Comitatus" forbids it so it is up to us to be vigilant and to take matters in our own hands if necessary as was done on one of the 9/11 flights. Your right though the problem is Americans that think they are property of the government like Swampman.

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2009, 10:15:52 AM »

Having served my country for over 10 years, I believe I still have to obey the laws of the land.

rickt300 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:37:32 AM »

If indeed your friend was protecting his second amendment rights and was killed doing so were not the 2 policeman violating his rights? There is a great difference in being dead and wrong and being dead and right. If indeed this friend was being legally within his rights and he was killed is this the kind of thing you are willing to stand for? Why didn't the press carry this killing in the right context? You certainly seem to expect to lose no matter what without consequence. As a point in context your gun rights are what support all your rights, if you are willing to let them go then yes you are property of the state. I have served my country all my life wether my time in military service or as a voting member of society, this service will only end when I am dead. I will do no less and expect no less from my fellow countrymen. Divided we fall, united we stand. If you will not stand at all then you have already fallen. If you feel standing up for your rights is being a blowhard then you can command no respect from anyone.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:15:40 PM »

I intend to live in peace if at all possible.

Brett · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2009, 01:44:34 PM »

Well Swampy all I can say is I hope none of us here ever find ourselves in a position were we have to count on you to watch our backs.

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2009, 01:47:45 PM »

Brett · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2009, 02:35:18 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on May 17, 2009, 01:47:45 PM

There is no reason for us both to be dead. I'll bury you after they leave.

Thanks, your a peach.

rickt300 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2009, 04:48:49 AM »

Both Waco and Ruby Ridge were instances of the feds doing the wrong thing and perfect examples of states rights being trampled. In fact the movement right now is to strengthen states rights and keep the feds out of all intrastate dealings. If you want to remember something people have been dying for your rights since this nation was born, remember the American Revolution and the Civil war? Your favorite cartridge has been used to fight for human rights in several big wars but I guess none of that matters to you. If your so afraid then what have you got to live for.

Questor · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2009, 05:45:59 AM »

Firearms are a part of our way of life. When something is so ingrained, it's bound to develop as a hobby and recreation for some folks. Some will only latch on to the hobby aspect of it, disregarding the defense aspect.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:03:51 AM »

I just don't care.

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2009, 07:18:03 AM »

It's a hobby, a right, and a duty.

Don't disspare, remember only about one third of the people living in the Colonies were Patriots, one third were Tores, and the other third were Uncommitted.

It seems a small number of us have to carry the load for many. Always have and always will.

jimster · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:42:45 AM »

It seems a small number of us have to carry the load for many. Always have and always will.

Always think the same thing myself sourdough, it's always a few who give it all up, and the many enjoy what the few gave them in the end.
I personally don't say much in public places about these types of things, matter of fact on this sight is the only place I can say what I feel, and maybe that's not to smart either I guess. Too late now eh?

There are going to be lots of reasons people will openly say they won't fight back, and call others blowhards, and it's true some people are blowhards.
But history shows us there are some that are not. It's a few who will carry the real load, and sacrifice the most. The others will take whatever freedoms come of it, just like always. Probably won't even blink when they do. Not many people know of the hardships of the first patriots and what those few went through, or what their families went through. I guess some people think we had all these freedoms by negotiations and pieces of paper. In fact, a lot of blood was spilled to be this free. More will need to be spilled at some point probably. If it ever happens and some people become free again because of it, those who fought and died will be forgotten as well by the many who for one reason or another would not be part of it.

There are lot's of reason to not fight if you decide you won't....only one reason to fight if you decide to. The people who fight to the end won't have to come up with lot's of reasons why they actually did it...just liberty. Nothing to do with guns really. Those are just tools. You don't have to be extra brave or extra tough, a woman or a man....you just have to want liberty real bad.

Sourdough · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:21:46 AM »

jimster: I agree

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:31:03 AM »

I am a patriot.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:43:09 AM »

If you are an American and believe in the Consitution and wish to protect it and the freedoms it affords all of us then you should be prepared to defend it .If you depend on the police to protect you and many do then the politicans can say we don't need guns . But if each of us protect ourselves then there will be less need for more policemen . It all boils down to being a free man or woman or a subject . You should also vote .
Swampman I have to ask how can you preach to us in one post and then tell us you care not what we or anyone thinks ? I feel as a Christian every thing I do effects others in some way . I care very much what my actions and words say to others . I admit that at times I have lost sight of this and may have hurt others not something to be proud of for sure but to intend to not care what others think seems well anti christian as each of us should lead a life that sets an example for others .

jimster · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2009, 12:09:50 PM »

I peronally hold no malice toward Swampman at all. I don't have to argue any points with anyone, it is a huge thing really, and a huge call to make.
As far as the comment "in the end nobody will fight at all"...I know Swampman knows better, even at Waco and Ruby ridge which he mentions himmself, there were dead feds there. Somebody fought. Somebody aways fights.

I'm not sure why that last comment was made....guess it's an opinion, and I'm good with any opinions one way or the other. But the facts say...someone ALWAYS fights. Not much getting around the facts. Some will, many won't....pretty simple stuff. We all are not the same and we all don't think the same.
That's OK. Personally...I think Swampman would fight, maybe under different conditions...like when they came to get his guns if one of them decided to knock his wife around with the butt of an M4, or kick the kids around, or maybe separate the family for an unspecified time....he would fight then. With his bare hands at that point. Who wouldn't?

Some say they would not do this to us....I say they can do anything they want to....same as beating up old people when Katrina hit. The police there looted and pilaged with the rest of the lawless.
They can do whatever they want if things get that bad. Anything goes. No rules except their rules.

So let's say some will fight...many will not....and some will decide to fight later if things get "out of hand" as they so very often do.

I sure hope I don't live to see the day when things get so bad. I could use some peace of mind at the end of it all.

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2009, 12:59:22 PM »

No man will put his hands on me or my family without my permission.

pastorp · « **Reply #28 on:** May 18, 2009, 05:03:20 PM »

Richt300, could you explaine your comment about the civil war. From the souths prespective it was a issue of states rights. From the norths prespective it was a attempt to overthrow those rights. I don't understand where your comming from with that comment. Regards,

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2009, 01:42:27 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on May 18, 2009, 12:59:22 PM

No man will put his hands on me or my family without my permission. That said, I will do all I can not to fight. Having served in the military, I know I cannot win against a hostile military/police force.

They murdered my friend in cold blood. He had his hands behind his head.

I wish you could understand just how dumb some of the things like this one you say really are. Once you give up your guns without a fight anyone who wants then can put their hands on you and your family and there ain't one darn thing you'll be able to do about it then. Oh and by the way. THEY WILL.