Curious .45/410 Barrel Question

[Bossloper]

Curiousity: A lot of folks use fire formed .444 brass as 410 shotshells, plus there's 410 brass shotshells available. If you loaded two pyrodex pellets into a brass 410 or fire formed .444 case, could you crimp a 240 grain bullet into the case and shoot it through a .45/410 barrel safely. I suggest Pyrodex in order to keep the pressure low enough to be safe for the SB1 frame the barrel comes on. Anyways, I'm just curious and wondered if any of you have experimented with this. Thanks, Brett

[PHATINJUN]

I don't know for sure but I would use loose before I used pellets. I don't have any 45cal pellets but I just checked and the .50 won't fit the case also if the .45 pellets dont fit tight in the case I would think that would have some effect on the pressures maybe one of the blackpowder cartridge guys could let us know what really happens in the case. Kurt

[jeepmann1948]

Do a search here  for  45 Mongo. Also some discussion on using 9.3 x74 r cses necked up to 45 cal. just remember the barrel is made to shotgun specs!

[Bossloper]

The barrel is a rifled 45/410 survivor barrel. I'd think it could handle BP pressures if it can handle 45 Colt smokeless pressures.

[quickdtoo]

45 Colt pressures with LOTS of freebore, eliminating the freebore in the 1137 mild steel barrel may not be the best idea, so be careful. 

Tim

[Rustyinfla]

  AS I recall Pyrodex will still cause problems with rusting will it not? Seems like something else might be better.

[lostchild]

I've got one my loads are made up from 445supermag cases.  I bell the case seat whatever 45 slug I want to shoot slowly seat the slug then fireform.  I shoot mostly 200gr cast or 300gr jacketed.  I use 445supermag data in these cases takes two or three firings to fire form acurauracy is much better than with the long colt cases.  I stick with mid loads no sighns on pressure ( usually get smoky cases till they fireform out all the way ) .  Hope this helps....lost

[Bossloper]

Thanks for the insight. Is this barrel rated for 45 Colt pressure or 3" 410 pressures? I figured that I would anneal the brass and just neck size them with a 45 Colt sizer die. Below is data straight of the Hodgdon website. Thoughts?

PYRODEX PELLETS IN METALLIC CARTRIDGES

CARTRIDGE       BULLET         PELLETS USED       VELOCITY        PRESSURE       CRIMP       WAD
44 Rem Mag    240 SWC      1 - Pyrodex Pistol      1053 fps        17,100 CUP          Y             N
44/40 WCF      200 RNFP     1 - Pyrodex Pistol       943 fps         12,700 CUP          Y             N
45 Colt            230 RFNP     1 - Pyrodex Pistol       870 fps          9,600 CUP           Y             N
45 Colt            250 RFNP     1 - Pyrodex Pistol       787 fps          9,900 CUP           Y             Y
45-70 Gov.      405 RNFP           1 - 50/50            989 fps         14,100 CUP          Y              Y
45-70 Gov.      405 RNFP           1 - 50/50           1015 fps        14,200 CUP          Y              N
45-70 Gov.      405 RNFP           2 - 50/30           1270 fps        27,200 CUP          Y              Y
45-70 Gov.      405 RNFP     2 - Pyrodex Pistol      1231 fps        21,900 CUP          Y              Y

[billy_56081]

I been using a very fluffy powder in brass 410 cases under a few different 300 grain bullets and have great success. 3 inch groups at 100 yards.

[JerryKo]

I'm pretty sure Tim added a thread to the FAQS for 45/410

Excellent results can be had, but at the cost of time.  Not the easiest way to go.  If you are looking for something to tinker with, then this is the project for you.

Easy to split a case if using 9.3X74r cases. 444marilin was easier but accuracy was not as good as with the longer case.  I havn't completely given up on it but I have run out of spare time to tinker much more with it.

Alot of the ground work has been laid out in the FAQ thread.  I think keeping in trapdoor pressure loads is probably best.  But I think I recall getting into the 1700 or 1800 fps with 405 grain lead and black powder sub powder(loose).  I could be wrong on that.  It might have been smokeless.  Its in the threads......Remember you are working in no mans land also, Be careful.

Good luck.

Jerry

I FORGOT TO MENTION I WAS USING A SB2 FRAME

[kevinsmith5]

Would you get the same pressures using Blackthorn? THat would eliminate the corrosion concern...

[billy_56081]

The thing with doing this is you are making your own data. I have been using a similar but smaller case and loading to the trapdoor pressures. I too us an SB2 frame.

[mechanic]

You need to remember to seat the projectile against the powder as well.  Air space ahead of black powder makes a nice bomb but not a good cartridge.

[JerryKo]

I guess the pellets should work according to the data.  KIND OF EXPENSIVE.  Im cheap though.  The discussion with air gap and pellets is grey to me.  The pelllets already have a hole through them.  Not sure how much gap would be had with 444 brass but would be close to how the 45 70 would be loaded with them.  The 444 will end up only slightly longer than the 45 70 brass.

Jerry

[PHATINJUN]

My thoughts exactly looks like you got way more data than anything I seen or heard of . Start shootin. Kurt