finally got to the range with the 357 i picked up. The only bullets i had were 158 gr RN lead so i made a few with 6 grs 231,about a gr below max with that powder. This load was in the black,but didn't want to group well so i tried the same bullet with 14 grs 296...bingo, this load was very consistant. This caliber in a rifle is really fun to shoot....recoil is nothing. Now i'll give 158 gr JSP(remington or magtech) a try as soon as i can find some. Before i found this forum i could not understand why anyone would want a pistol caliber in a rifle...but now i know....and i learned it all here.....thanks guys