Magnum Rifle Primers Misfiring

[Matt3357]

I fired my first .223 reloads ever today and results were mixed.  I had decent accuracy shooting off of bags (need to build a rifle rest for further testing) but I worked up these loads using cci magnum small rifle primers and with my H&R ultra I had about 8 fail to fires.  I could get some to fire with repeated firings but this very unacceptable.  I have been told that the magnum primers had a thicker shell as to prevent slam fires but the primers had a decent dent in them.  The shells were about 45 degrees so I wonder if that had something to do with it.  I have an entire box of these primers so I don't want to waste them.  I have heard of strengthening the spring of the hammer, which while I have it apart I would do a trigger job but what spring do you get?  Would this solve my problem of hard primers?  Or do I take a loss and deprime the 150 cases I have ready to load? 

On the bright side, I was shooting about 1" with the three hottest loads (which were still a grain under max, and had less primer flattening than the winchester white box)  I was getting some flattening with the handloads but they still had some roundness.  I don't have a chrony so no clue as to how fast, but they were shooting right on at 100' with the hand loads. 


thanks,
Matt

Oh yeah, I was being sure to pull the trigger all the way through and hold it.  I am sure I read about a stronger spring in some reply by tim, but I sure can't find it in the FAQ's. 

[trotterlg]

The CCI 450's and BR4's do have a thicker cup than the 400's do.  I have never had a problem with either the 450's or BR4's in my Handis, so I would look to see if you have a little more head space than you need and also if you are holding the trigger all the way back when shooting.  If you have more headspace then you can back off your dies a little when you resize the cases and fix that problem.  With max loads in the .223 you will probably want the thicker primers.  Larry

[Matt3357]

Thanks for the quick reply Larry,  I was editing my response just as you sent that to say that I was being sure to hold the trigger all the way back for the transfer bar.  I will look into the headspace thing.  That is good news for me if it works. 

Thanks,
Matt

[Lefty Dude]

CCI primers are the hardest of the primers, except for maybe Magtech.

Federal are the softest, with Winchester & Remington's in the middle. Wolf primers I know nothing about ?

For my Handi's I use federals or Winchester's.

For Bolt guns CCI's are good.

If you have a lightened hammer spring & action job, best stick with the federal's

Cowboy Action Shooters know all about Federal primers, they try and have the lightest hammer springs they can get away with.

[LaOtto222]

So far (fingers crossed) I have not had primer issues with any of my Handi's. I use mostly Remington 7 1/2 small rifle primers in my small cases, (except 22 Hornet) and they have a thicker cup, like CCI BR 4 primers. I would think about replacing the spring or see if the hammer is dragging some where on the way up. Make sure the fireing pin is free to move back and forth and is not damaged. But - If you are getting good, deep dents but a failure to fire, you may have some contaminated primers. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[carbineman]

I have noticed in the past that primers change with each production run. Even of the same make. I have always purchased in bulk because of this. Less chance of things changing when using the same lot number.

[cwlongshot]

There are other things besides the primer it self that could cause these issues...

1) are you certain they where seated properly? I mean not crushed or seated only flush?

2) Are they from known good stock and stored properly?

3) Check the pin protrusion. If you have a couple receivers, I would compare them. Also check the barrels chamber. Remove the barrel and chamber a bullet. Does it sit flush or slightly recessed?

CW

[Matt3357]

Ok, of the things you listed off, The primers were seated flush and not crushed, nothing recessed, They are stored in a cool dry area since I have had them,  I have not idea if they are of good stock.  I have never had a problem with this gun misfiring before.  The pin protrudes about 3/32's to 1/8th of an inch.  and seems to be putting sufficient dent in the primer which leads me to believe that it has something to do with the hard primer cup.  The rounds seat flush in the chamber with no excess headspace.  So I am left to believe that either the primers are bad or they are actually hitting too light. 

So, my plan is since I have around 150 rounds already sized and primed I am going to load up about 20 or 30 rounds, clean my gun really well, including the action, and we'll see what happens.  If I still have problems after than I'll try to find some new primers in this crazy economy.  I'll let you know in a couple weeks.

Thanks,
Matt

[zoner]

i have always used winchester primers,they work for me,so i stay with what works

[LaOtto222]

I hate to labor this, but if you are getting good dents, the cup is not too hard. If you have seated the primers to the correct depth and have not flattened them - you have bad primers. I have always had good luck with CCI, Remington and Winchester primers, rarely getting a bad one and when I do I am not sure if I did it or not. I have never gotten as many as you have gotten I have not gotten that mnay in all the years of my reloading - total - so that leads me to believe the primers are bad. Could be from a variety of reasons. You have ruled out seating as a problem. Poor storage (you do not know how they were stored before you got them), case lube contamination, poor manufacture control are a few reasons you could be having ignition problems. If you continue to have problems after your new test, i do not think you have any choice but to pull them down. If you decide to use them up and shoot them as best you can, keep your gun pointed down range for a little while after the hammer hits to ensure you do not get a hang fire. I sure would not trust this ammo on any thing but paper. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Chas.]

I've had bad luck with CCI as well.  In fact, I won't use them anymore.  If I can't find Winchester or Federal, I just do without.  That's better than fooling with unfired cart.  I was getting about 10% FTF in my BFR and only slightly better in my Buff. Classic.  I switched to Federal and haven't had a single FTF since.

[rickt300]

I use the CCI 450 a lot and haven't had any problems other than they cost $3.50 for 100 around here.  I use the magnum primers whenever I am using a ball powder .  I have bought a bunch of Winchester primers in large rifle and large rifle magnum with the only problem they seem a bit easier to seat than the CCI primers.  Truthfully I have had so few primer problems that I would definitly check the other leads listed here first before blaming the primers.

[Matt3357]

I haven't had time to go to the range again yet, but I did some more reading about misfires and they said the single most common reason is primers that are not set deep enough.  This got me thinking.  I think they are set deep enough, but the thing is I am using my lee turret press to prime and you can't exactly feel everything.  I was talking to my dad and instead of loading up more rounds to see if I contaminated my primers with lube, he said to just pop the primers that I have loaded in the cases.  I thought it was a very good idea, except for the fact that I would have to bring my bench home to load some bullets or just go without actually shooting them this weekend.  Is this and acceptable test of reliability and of defectiveness?

Thanks,
Matt

[cwlongshot]

Matt,
 Proper seating is what many of us mentioned to you right off. Its a COMMON, problem when one has misfire issues.

  I really dislike any manufactures priming setup that allows you to seat a primer by "feel". Its far too subjective. With all the compound leverage available in most primers, "feel" just is too inconsistent. Lee, Lyman, RCBS and foster all make a press mounted priming die setup. Your set up the die in the top of a single stage press so that when the handle is down at its lowest point, the ram its at its top. Seating the primer EXACTLY the same every single time. Its not expensive, its a much better system and along with cleaning, uniforming primer pockets and deburring flash holes, will allow you to make better, more consistent ammunition.

 What does a correctly seated primer look like? Lyman recommends a small piece of glass be kept on your bench next to the priming station. After seating a primer, place the base on the glass and it should sit dead flat and rock steady. The primer will be just below flush but not be flattened or have its shape altered at all. Now this is also one place where you CAN feel a primer and its OK as its only using your finger tip. Press your finger on the primer. You will feel how its ever-so slightly below flush, that's a properly seated primer. If you have uniformed your primer pockets, like I mentioned, every single case will be exactly as the others.

Good luck,
CW

[Doug B.]

What does a correctly seated primer look like? Lyman recommends a small piece of glass be kept on your bench next to the priming station. After seating a primer, place the base on the glass and it should sit dead flat and rock steady. The primer will be just below flush but not be flattened or have its shape altered at all.
Good luck,
CW

BINGO! The piece of glass is a trick that an old buddy of mine taught me years ago. Sorry CW but I still like the feel of the hand primer tool myself. In fact, mine is getting a bit "sloppy" and I am considering purchasing a new or used RCBS hand primer in the near future. I can't even imagine where I'd start to get replacement parts.  My tool (can't even find a manufacturers name on it) does not even have a primer tray affixed. All these years I have been placing each individual primer in the tool one at a time. I figured maybe it's time I "graduated" to a new one!

Shoot straight and be safe!

[Matt3357]

I checked about 20 cases and they were all just barely below flush. Thanks for the glass tip, I'll have to find a small piece to put on my bench.  So what do you think about doing a test of the primers by shooting primed cases with nothing loaded?  The only thing I can think is that my first batch got contaminated.  I think I will order a pocket uniformer with my next batch of supplies. 

Thanks,
Matt