Author Topic: An ideal survival rifle (Read 14890 times)

teamnelson · « **Reply #90 on:** November 10, 2009, 04:26:28 PM »

Always love that knife when you show it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #91 on:** November 11, 2009, 02:28:26 AM »

And a single shot anything short of a grenade lancher is all but useless aginst more than one target in an attack on your home .

don heath · « **Reply #92 on:** November 11, 2009, 03:38:55 AM »

I would disagree...whilst I would prefer a multi shot weapon..from hard and bitter experience in three bush wars...After the first shot all targets disapear anyway. If you fire more than two rounds from any one possition you draw fire. If you are at home- change windo, in the country, roll over...

The old couloured chap who ran the mine near our house was a frequent target for the communists- he was too white for them to consider being one of 'their own' and too black for the white controlled military to rush out and assist in the dark. Consiquently he was attacked for sport over 50 times. He used a 10g semi auto - and was the first to hammer home to me the need to never fire more than two rounds before moving. He also proved (which I subsiquently re-learned for myself) that bad guys do not press home an attack if there is percieved accurate return fire. (Fundamentalists beliveing they are on a mission from God are another story - so are trained troops).

Also- always fire low- There is nothing like a guy lying on the ground screaming - they've shot my balls off- to totally take the wind out of an attack. Odd of 50:1 sudenly become one in the open howling and 49 hunting a hole and randomly spraying fire in the direction of the defender....

Swampman · « **Reply #93 on:** November 11, 2009, 03:40:49 AM »

You said survival not combat. If you wish to survive avoid detection at all cost.

Couger · « **Reply #94 on:** November 11, 2009, 06:23:18 AM »

Some great advice (and experience it sounds like) in Don's post, and your's too, Swampman!

I'll definitely inculcate the 2-shots max rule into my thinking and philosophies, not that I expect (at the moment) to need to employ that info.

But for survival ..... laying low and staying unseen are big pluses! Learning to dry/cold camp efficiently and well might not hurt, either. (with very small and sheltered fires, if at all).

Couger · « **Reply #95 on:** November 11, 2009, 06:31:05 AM »

Quote from: Swampman

The 20 gauge will keep you fat. The .223 is useless for small game and inadequate for big game.

I would generally agree, altho I'd still rather pack a twelver since I reload and can build reduced 12ga rounds that would enable me to carry more of them (their smaller length and weight), but also retain the versatility and ability to shoot more bigger more powerful 12ga loads.

Couger · « **Reply #96 on:** November 11, 2009, 06:38:50 AM »

ADDED: It occurred to me reading Don's post and Swampman's posts -

something that didn't solidify in my "h-a-y-d-e" (or brain) until this A.M.....

The "idea" of a perfect survival weapon, or knife, or this piece of equipment or 'that one' ..... its really often more of the "philosophy" involved using such an item than the actual item.

Am I blowing smoke with this? Comments? Criticisms?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #97 on:** November 11, 2009, 07:09:07 AM »

I wonder just how many in an armed conflict see it as survival not combat ? Taking only one shot at a time sounds real nice and in some maybe most will work then maybe you hit the one time the other guys don't follow the rules . All that said if you have to run for cover and grab a gun with a full mag. you are way better off than a single shot with one even if you only shoot one at a time .
Now where i grew up and lived all but a few years threats came in twos or more alot of the time . I know little of the African Bush but have lived thru. roits , snipers , gangs etc .
I live by the idea if one is good then more is better most of the time .

Swampman · « **Reply #98 on:** November 11, 2009, 07:53:28 AM »

Playing Rambo will get you captured or killed. Avoid contact.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #99 on:** November 11, 2009, 07:56:59 AM »

True , but when in a roit and your home is in the bad part of town etc.
I ask would the truck driver in LA that got draged out the truck and beat , would they have been better off with a single shot or mag fed weapon ?

Swampman · « **Reply #100 on:** November 11, 2009, 08:03:58 AM »

My idea of the enemy and your idea of the enemy are completly diifferent. Your most important survival tool is your brain. I'll be in the woods not in town.

teamnelson · « **Reply #101 on:** November 11, 2009, 08:17:50 AM »

Quote from: Couger on November 11, 2009, 06:38:50 AM

ADDED: It occurred to me reading Don's post and Swampman's posts -

something that didn't solidify in my "h-a-y-d-e" (or brain) until this A.M.....

The "idea" of a perfect survival weapon, or knife, or this piece of equipment or 'that one' ..... its really often more of the "philosophy" involved using such an item than the actual item.

Am I blowing smoke with this? Comments? Criticisms?

It is always about philosophy ... when the debate heats up over single vs. magfed, .22 vs. 12ga, etc. Its not over the weapons themselves, its over what the posters THINK when they say survival. A Counterinsurgency is a survival scenario just as is a viral epidemic, with different requirements. BUT anyone who rigidly clings to a single philosophy will not survive either one. When they torch your homestead and you and the family have to abandon your gun safe and pallet of ammo, you adapt.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #102 on:** November 11, 2009, 08:18:43 AM »

That truck driver may have lived out of town and got caught at work as it started . An enemy can be anything from a person to a critter to weather . Anything that challenges ones survival including your own resolve .
This is the comedy here everyone had pre decided what they will face when they have only a clue . If you know what awaits you then you can prepare for it . The idea of one gun is a good exersise to show that you must be ready for the unexpected and a 22lr might not make grade .

teddy12b · « **Reply #103 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:23:45 AM »

This thread is an interesting read. It's amazing how different the answers are from one location to another. In Indiana, a 22LR will take any wild ferocious animal out there. I wouldn't be thinking the same thing if I were out west or in Alaska.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #104 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:39:07 AM »

how about a mob ? or bull gone mad ?

Swampman · « **Reply #105 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:55:39 AM »

Keep in mind a single shot shotgun draws little if any attention in many locales. I have no use for mag. fed weapons. They draw too much negative attention. Just part of my philosophy. The enemy I expect to see has unlimited resourses, helicopters, night vison, full-autos, body armor, etc.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #106 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:57:07 AM »

I have to say, usually a thread that runs four pages has degenerated to a point that it no longer has any bearing on the original post. This is an exception to that rule.

Many perspectives and many good opinions.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #107 on:** November 11, 2009, 11:02:37 AM »

Swampman , maybe but a pump shotgun is littler bigger than a singleshot or dbl bbl and offers alot of fire power .

Swampman · « **Reply #108 on:** November 11, 2009, 11:46:07 AM »

They weigh too much IMO.

teamnelson · « **Reply #109 on:** November 11, 2009, 02:57:22 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 11, 2009, 10:55:39 AM

Keep in mind a single shot shotgun draws little if any attention in many locales. I have no use for mag. fed weapons. They draw too much negative attention. Just part of my philosophy. The enemy I expect to see has unlimited resourses, helicopters, night vison, full-autos, body armor, etc.

I think about that too. The AWB was arbitrarily based on "scary" looking guns, not actual lethality. I suspect that illogic will be applied soon when all the lib states exercise autonomy under the Supreme Courts read on 2A. Rather have my harmless single on the wall than an AR in a smelter.

Arier Blut · « **Reply #110 on:** November 12, 2009, 08:28:38 AM »

I agree more along the lines of not being detected as the better survival approach for myself. That being said one can also take in historical knowledge if the tides are turned and you are detected. In that case in my mind again stealth and trying to get away quietly tend to be on my mind for survival. To engage with a loud semi auto rifle/shotgun give attention to self and you are at the mercy of the determination of those engaging you.

The jews used a very nasty approach for less lethal control of what they determined to be out of line Palestinian protesters. The weapon a 22 lr 10/22 suppressed and supposed to be used for leg shots. What ended up happening was groin and femoral artery shots, which in turn lead to many lethal results. In turn the jews took the 10/22 out of the role for less lethal.

I would imagine that a near silent attack on a group that can not discern an attacker to fire upon would be a bit more demoralizing than the same individual firing a rifle/shotgun. A large group attacking a small band in a known location may possibly be more persistent. An enemy which cannot be seen or heard may be avoided if it is not aggressively perusing the aforementioned attackers. To be engaged by a trained group of individuals holds very little favorable outcome for oneself if they are detected. To engage only when necessary for a near silent withdrawal may be wiser IMHO.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #111 on:** November 12, 2009, 08:52:35 AM »

What I read was a 22 mag. was to be used to take out leaders of roits but was never done .
If you are found out noise at that point is moot ! Being able to engauge more than one target might save your life .

Arier Blut · « **Reply #112 on:** November 12, 2009, 09:06:29 AM »

http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #113 on:** November 12, 2009, 09:16:50 AM »

Thanks , interesting . I had read a book by a guy named Socket I believe was his name or something close to that . Good read and good imfo. for todays world .

don heath · « **Reply #114 on:** November 12, 2009, 08:08:06 PM »

We were taught to aim for the groin using the 37mm 'batton' guns during riots. One good hit (by a 1lb hard rubber 'bullet' at 600fps) usually got a scream that the whole city could hear and it is very hard to throw bricks and molotove cocktails while using both hands to protect the groin....

Also a fiar point on the veriety of guns...I own six 9,3 rifles- have one in the three countries I normally hunt, one at the farm, and a couple at home. There is always 9,3 ammo in my truck and pack. The same goes for .44 mag (since I always carry one). There is little point in having a specialised weapon and ammo system in bulk tied to one point- if it is all at home and you cannot get home... it is useless. and having one caliber for in town and one for in the country...( I appreciate Americans don't need to deal with elephants and lions so something alot smaller than my 9,3 is appropriate). Still, it is hard to beat the old triad of a decent, long range rifle, a good shotgun and a reliable handgun.

rzwieg · « **Reply #115 on:** November 13, 2009, 04:33:56 AM »

We seem to have the same view. Your rifles are mostly in one caliber/cartridge combination to save on logistical headaches. I had great success with that using 7.62x51, .223 Rem., and .45 ACP. Ammo for each is common and I should be able to keep rockin' indefinitely.

If I got hit in the balls I'd scream like a girl too.

teamnelson · « **Reply #116 on:** November 13, 2009, 10:22:33 AM »

Watched a Marine try to figure out how to modify the ballistic groin pad on our PPE so he could slide one of the small side SAAPI plates (designed to stop 7.62x39) into it. Honestly couldn't fault his logic.

That said, in a survival situation aim your 10/22 low (nice soft lead RN) and sweep the gang at crotch level - or a nice broad pattern from a 20 or 12. Those will be fatal most likely in an EOTWAWKI scenario eventually ... and the will to fight leaves quick. Pulling a .22 out of a ham, buttock or thigh isn't so bad, but digging around in the pelvis unless you're a battlefield surgeon is just going to make it worse, and when the wound goes septic without antibiotics, they'll wish you'd shot them in the head.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #117 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:09:07 PM »

the femeral atery is in that area too

i like the low groin shot because it is safer for non-target folks beyond

i miss or pass through hits the ground soon

Hooker · « **Reply #118 on:** November 14, 2009, 07:23:37 PM »

I'll take my 336 Marlin 30/30 plenty of on target power, decent fire power, very reliable, and accurate.
Easy to reload works well with lead bullets can be down loaded for small game.
Although bows, slingshots, snares, limb lines and traps will be your best bet for food, and they wont draw attention to your presence.
A firearms should actually play a very small part in a survival situation. If you find yourself using a firearm much ,your survival skills ain't
working.

Pat

Chappers · « **Reply #119 on:** December 03, 2009, 04:02:28 AM »

Around in my part of the world if such a situation would arise, there are no animals that would pose a real threat so i would not need a big calibre to stop lions, tigers and bears. the trusty .22Lr would be my choice, i think people under estimate the power of this small calibre. While on a property me and a mate came across a roo tangled up in the fence, being that we were not going to risk being kicked and scratched (go though the bother of repairing the fence) to free it out to only to have it bleed out somewhere else. We decided to put the poor bugger down so the shot was taken what we found out later too be just under 100 meters. This roo was a good size standing around 170cm and a head shot took him down with ease.

Now around here the two most types of people that you would need to defend from in a EOTWAWKI situation would be unorganised (desperate) peoples or a overseas organised force. i believe the .22Lr would work but one thing that worries me about defending from a organised force is that a golden rule for hit and run tactics engagements should be only taken from 500 to 600 meters and the 22lr lacks the accuracy at that distance.