.45-70 question

[Rustyinfla]

   I see where a lot of people are taking their .45-70's and turning them into .45-90's and .45-120's.

  MY question is, is there anything to be gained by by this if you're using smokeless powder? I can see where there would be a difference with Black but with smokeless can anything be gained?

  Thanks,
    Rusty <><

[LONGTOM]

I haven't done mine yet but intend to.
I can't trully answere your qyestion as I intend to shoot BP in mine.
My hopes is that I can get a 300gr HP with BP up to or close to a factory 45-70 with smokeless.
I just want the fun of shooting BP in one but don't need the big bullets for deer as the 300 has done a fine job at around 1800 to 1900 fps.
Not sure I can attain that velocity with BP but I am going to try.

I beleave that the others that have already done theirs have gotten some pretty stout loads.
Way above the standard.
I am sure some of them (TIM,RICHARD,TYKE) will be here shortly to set the record straight on just what can be gained.


LONGTOM

[quickdtoo]

Try the search for 45-120 selecting just this forum, you'll get the better part of 8 pages of hits. 

Tim

[NickSS]

I have been shooting 45-70s for over 49 years and there is nothing to gain by going to a longer case when using smokeless powder.  You can get a 300 gr slug going over 2000 fps and a 500 gr slug going nearly 1800 in a 45-70 case.  Black powder is another story.  With black every additional 10 gr of powder gives you somewhere around 100 fps more velocity in 45 caliber with a give bullet weight.  What the bullet weight is is not important.  So a 45-70 loaded with 70 gr of black )most cases will not hold that much unless you use a tapered bullet and seat it way out) will average in a 34" buffalo classic around 1350 with a 400 gr bullet or around 1450 with a 300 gr slug.  A 45-90 loaded with the same bullet loaded with 90 gr of black will give you about 150 to 200 fps more velocity depending upon your rifle. With the 45-120 you start running into the law of diminishing returns. I chornoed many loads in the one I had with black powder and never got a 400 gr slug to go faster than 1650 fps.  And in a rifle the weight of a handy rifle even with the long 34 inch BC barrel the recoil is brutal.   

[Chas.]

Nick, I had the same questions as Rustyinfla and your response was concise and to the point.  Thanks.

[Swampman]

is there anything to be gained by by this if you're using smokeless powder?

No

[AtlLaw]

I see where a lot of people are taking their .45-70's and turning them into .45-90's and .45-120's. ... is there anything to be gained by by this if you're using smokeless powder?

   <sigh>  Firstus, you be lookin at this all wrong!  Gaining anything is not the point!

SIZE DOES MATTER!     If something's big enough, that's what gets all the attention!  How well you use your equipment is never really remembered by those who admire it's proportions!  I know this is hard to understand for the majority here; those suffering through life with their iti-biti power tubes.  They must be able to milk out the last bit of performance from the tool in hand... so to speak.  But for those of us fortunate enough to become endowed with a truely magnificent weapon of gigantic proportions... well, we garner swagger rights around all who see it.   

Fortunately for the majority of men, their deficiency can be eliminated by a simple and inexpensive operation.  You to can join us and be a "man among men!"  Several here are preparing to undergo this enlargement as we speak.  And there is one, fittingly called "Long Tom," who intends to take this matter to a length and circumfrence yet untried!   

Wait!  what were we talking about!?     Oh yah, the 45-120... 

I to struggled with the "practicality" issue for a bit.  But I was finally able to convince myself that practicality and need had nothing to do with this project.  Those virtues had to be abandoned at the outset.  If even a bit of one of those thoughts remained, noone would go longer then the 45-100.  Especially if they read the outstanding range report a member (who was that Tim?) did on his experimentation with that cartridge.

Nope, it's mostly about "Shock and Awe" and it's just plain fun playing with loads!     For example, I believe my starting load with the 405 gr. bullet is faster then a well known, loaded to the gills, factory 45/70.  And that company makes money selling those or they wouldn't be loading them!  So there are people out there who want moremoremore from the 458's but don't want WM's or Lotts.  Some of us just got to be different!   

So while "gaining" anything is not the point, it can be a by-product.  But being the conservative, practical type by nature, Ima thinkin that a 28 inch barrel in 45-100 would be perfectly suited for all my big-bore needs...    Then I'd have a 22" - 45/70, a 28" - 45/100 and a 32" 45/120!    ...  ... wait...    somethings missing ...    Geeese!     That's quite a gap there on the low end...    Ya know what I need!?     A 45/90 in a 24 or 26" barrel!!!     And...and ya know what!     a 16" 45 Colt barrel!!!!!!  ohboyohboyohboy!!!! 

[brad925]

I just want to add that if the recoil is a problem fill the butt with lead shot. I did to my B.C and it made a great difference in the felt recoil. It bought my rifle up to 11 lbs. even. I also find i can hold steadier with a heavier rifle for off hand shooting and with a 32 inch pipe it seems to balance it out just right.

[Jimbo47]

After I got my 45-70 and starting reloading for it, I read all the threads that had anything to do with the cartridge, and discovered that it's not so much about performance as it is about preference and having something nobody else has.

From what I've found in personal experience being more of a practical type person is that you can load it mild for plinking and wild if you just like to have your shoulder messaged and cause the earth to shake and create a dust storm behind the target at 200 yards.

I personally lean toward the mid range loads, (1600-1800 fps) as it's more plesant to shoot that way, so yeah I'm a wimp, and the big arch that you get beyond 200 yards no matter how hot you load it, doesn't justify having to rub down my shoulder that evening after trying to make it do what my .270 does all day long, without half the recoil.

Again it's more of a personal thing in my opinion, unless you're a die hard BP fan, then no, it's not that big a gain!

[JonnyC]

I have a question- Can one shoot a 45-70 in a 45-90 or 45-100 chamber? Kinda like shooting a 38 out of a .357.If so- how accurate would it be?

[LONGTOM]

Well, let's see now.

fill the butt with lead shot

The rifle butt!

I did to my B.C and it made a great difference in the felt recoil.

B.C.-does that stand for BUFFALO CLASSIC or butt crack?

Easy there Richard!

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.
It's all Richards fault.
He reminds me of my wife's uncle.

My wife's uncle was a SUB COMMANDER retired now.
He sounds a lot like you Richard.
No mater what you say he has some come back for it!
He is a real hoot.
You and him would get along just fine.
The only problem is it would be hard to make a shot when you are laughing so hard.
Like the young doe he shot on our farm while hunting with my young son and my self.
He took a head shot at around 125ytds with his 6mm and down she went.
He said she was a nice mature doe.
As we got closer he made the comment that this was the worst case of field shrinkage he has ever seen.
She weighed in at 68 lbs.


LONGTOM

[Jimbo47]

I have a question- Can one shoot a 45-70 in a 45-90 or 45-100 chamber? Kinda like shooting a 38 out of a .357.If so- how accurate would it be?

I have a .357 mag reamed to maximum, and I find it's still in the ballpark as far as accuracy importance goes as a hunting rifle.

There will be some difference in poi, but at typical 45-70 hunting ranges, and I'm assuming that is what you are talking about as accuracy wise, it won't make any difference to the animal at all.

[Tackleberry]

...As we got closer he made the comment that this was the worst case of field shrinkage he has ever seen.
She weighed in at 68 lbs.....

I've had field shrinkage happen when nature calls in the woods and it's 33 degrees....

[AtlLaw]