Author Topic: Which would be a better kids small deer barrel, 223 or 357 mag (Read 3004 times)

clearwater · « **on:** March 25, 2009, 01:31:46 PM »

If I got a new barrel for efficient plinking and also for a youngsters first deer rifle (little
coastal blacktails) which caliber would be best?

Would be handloading for them, so could use partitions etc in 223 or cast or jacketed in 357.

100 yard shots or less.

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:39:29 PM »

Get the 357 mag.

Spanky

eod20 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:40:35 PM »

you are going to get so many opinions on this it is crazy my opinion is this: it is a range and cover question - at what range and in how much cover you are hunting i do not like the 223 for deer and the 357 is a 100 yd round - at best i would get the 223 for ground pigs and the 357 for short range deer or a 7mm-08 and call it a day that is all my opinion and many will find fault with it

kinslayer1965 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:42:35 PM »

If I had to choose I would opt for the .357. As long as the distances were short.

SM Bob · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:48:04 PM »

Of those two calibers I would definitely go for the 357 Mag then ream it out to 357 Max.

Robert

Dustyvance · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:00:17 PM »

Keep in mind that in some states ( Mississippi for example) the 223 is not legal for deer. The 357 all the way gets my vote.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:02:45 PM »

The .357 handi is a low recoiling straight shooting deer slayer at 125 yards or less, I love to hunt with my .357s.. I prefer 180gr hard cast LFNGC bullets, but any cast SWC or LFN from 158 up will work. !58 gr REM JSPs are a very good choice also, as are hornady XTPs but I do not like hollow points for hunting.

The .357 has so many options like shooting .38 special wadcutters (which is just so much fun and cheap) and then cranking it up to full house magnums, and the .357 out of a rifle is a totallly diffrent animal than the same round from a revolver. Then a little later you hand ream one to .357 maximum Which is another level of .357, Mild to wild is a .357 handi.

Get one shoot it and smile alot.

mechanic · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:10:02 PM »

357 hands down. The muzzle blast alone is intimidating in a 223 to a young shooter. The 357 has more horsepower at short range.

JerryKo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:24:00 PM »

I find no fault with either for plinking and small deer. Load a 60 gr partition or Barnes TSX in 53 grain and I belive that is as good a round as the 357 at 100yds and under. THe 180's for 357 should work real good too. On practice I would go with what you could buy the most of. An accurate shot is the best deer medicine. Rember to set goals and have that max range well known before the hunt. I let the max range shrink for my son just assuming the buck fever may creep into the mix. Good luck, and its great to get the kids shooting too.

I am assuming you can handload. If not that may change your decision on caliber.
A lot of people overlook the 22-250. If one handloads, it is much more versital than the 223.
Please go easy on me fellas,...its just my opinion.

Jerry

PS my son was shooting 223 factory rounds before he shot a 22lr, and never complained about it at all. It was a handi and he was 5 1/2 yrs old. shooting from the sitting position with bipod. He loved it.

canon6 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:26:16 PM »

I would opt for the 357, low recoil and very effective. Doug

rickt300 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:41:51 PM »

Both cartridges are fun to shoot and can kill deer effectivly. Me I will go against the popular vote here and say 223. It has always worked for me. However why not get a 30-30 or 243? Both are perfect for deer and provide enough power to be comfortable taking deer with and recoil very little. I have a Handi in 44 magnum that at least to me has very little recoil and can easily fill the bill as a 100 yard deer gun, better I think than either the 223 or 357. You will certainly get blood to trail with if you need it and accuracy is top notch in my gun.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:44:45 PM »

I think if you drop down a couple of forums here on Graybeards look at the forum moderated by Veral Smith on cast bullets. According to him the 180 grain out of the ,357 is quite a killer and much underrated.

tykempster · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:46:23 PM »

I vote 223. I think IT has more horsepower for all ranges. I shot 3 deer witha 75 grain Amax from my AR-15 this year and they all dropped within a short distance. The bullet exited on two deer, on one drive I shot a deer and it kept running away from me so I shot again and the bullet entered behind the last rib on the left side and behind the right shoulder. An amazing amount of penetration I thought.
Another one I shot in the spine at real close range as she ran past me. Destroyed the spine without blowing up inside. I would be confident with the 223 on most any deer with what I saw this year.

zoner · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:47:03 PM »

for hunting deer@100 yds or less...thumbs up to 357 Magnum

tykempster · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:47:44 PM »

Well heck that's the left shoulder. That must have been one I shot broadside...the other exit looked pretty similar, very impressive for such a small bullet.

mechanic · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:07:31 PM »

Quote from: tykempster on March 25, 2009, 02:47:44 PM

Well heck that's the left shoulder. That must have been one I shot broadside...the other exit looked pretty similar, very impressive for such a small bullet.

Now Ty, you know when you unload your cannon all you gots left is horns and tail. I saw that vaporized possum.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »

Another vote for the .357 Magnum. If you're shooting factory ammo it's the cheapest game in town next to a .22LR. Kids need lots of practice (as do adults) so you can't beat the cost. If your kid is very recoil shy like my daughter you can load it with .38 wadcutters which have zero recoil and are quieter that a .22. My daughter hasn't killed any deer yet with it but I wouldn't have even gotten her into the woods if it hadn't been for the .38's to get her over her fear. The nice days I've spent in the woods with her was worth the cost alone. Plus you'll have the bonus of a very fun rifle for yourself to shoot and plink with.

midwayraider · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:38:02 PM »

these deer fell to my .357 last deer season . i like the 357 because of its accuracy , i shoot it alot and in turn this makes me more confident in the gun and my shot placement . shot placement is key in deer hunting , a bad shot with any caliber gun and your gonna lose deer, but a shot placed right behind the shoulder with the .223 or .357 and about 30 minutes of paitience after the shot, and most of the time you will walk right to a dead deer. get your son what you think he will be comfortable with and let him shoot it alot.

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:32:47 AM »

For small deer like you describe ,either one should do fine.That being said,I would opt for the 223 using Winchester 64 grn power point bullets.These were developed by Winchester for deer hunting.Also as the youngsters grow the versility of the 223 for other types of game ,varmints and preditors,will prove more useful.

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:38:58 AM »

While both will kill Deer, you have to look at the shoots and take into account their age and size. Also legalities in your area. Therefore I would opt for the .357 of the ones given to select from. Just make sure you get a youth stock so the gun fits them, and they can shoot it well.

Now for other options, look at the .44 Mag. You can load .44 Spl to get a nice soft recoil, and still have some punch. Plenty for deer, or other thin skinned game. Then it is simply a matter of heavier loading to make it a Mag, that would work for bigger stuff. My wife has killed several Black Bear with her .44 Mag carbine. The .45 LC can pretty much do the same thing. My wife went with the 45-70 for our son when he was 12, he was small for his age at the time, but he handled the 45-70 well, liking it better than the .243 I had given him. Starting loads for the 45-70 Springfield worked well to start him out. Then as he grew, I raised the loads till we reached a good heavy load he likes. Now he loads with a 400gr bullet that rocks my world, I have all the confidence in the world with this load for any Bear in Alaska. I also would not hesitate to take it for Bison.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:51:00 AM »

for your set of criteria, the .357, and I have them both, as I am sure do many of the above responders....<><....

Steve P · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:47:38 AM »

I haven't tallied the votes, but with my vote for 357, I think you will find 357 is winning by about a 10-1 margin! Look into the 180-200+ grain bullets for deer tho.......

Steve

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:12:00 AM »

Been a lot of deer taken with a .223 varmint round, but there has also been a lot of them that were never found.

Shot placement is always key no matter what you use, but I would have to go with the .357 as a much better round for deer sized animals.

Hunt varmints and yotes with the .223, but when it comes to deer you need that heavier bullet, and bigger hole.

petemi · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:04:22 AM »

I'd go .357 Mag between the two. I'd prefer the 7mm-08. I imagine the question is how big is the kid?
I don't allow people to hunt deer with .22 centerfires on my property.
We have big deer. I almost had a huge buck for a hood ornament this morning over in Pickford.

Pete

clearwater · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:21:53 AM »

The little feller is 60 lbs right now. It would be a couple of years before he is legal for deer, but I would like to
have him shooting at the range a bunch in the meantime.

I have a couple of 7mm mausers he could use when he is up to the recoil.

As far as legal in California-----

CA DFG says " may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges
with softnose or expanding projectiles"

"To be legal for deer in California
your handgun must fire centerfire cartridges with
softnose or expanding bullets. That description is
almost too lenient, as some hunters try to hunt with
marginal pistols or revolvers. Most serious
handgunners prefer calibers of .357, .41 or .44 magnum
for deer hunting."

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:33:18 AM »

He would really like the .357 then, With .38 loaded with 125gr lead bullets and light loads of bulseye, unique, titegroup or trailboss, Just go pop and have no more recoil than a .22 LR and the little feller can puff up some and tell his friends he shoots a .357.

lefty41 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:30:35 AM »

My vote is for the .357 also. A little surprised that no one has mentioned the Hirnady 140gr LeverEvolution round. It is mild recoil and plenty for small Deer out to about 100-125 yards. My two cents worth.
Good luck!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:18:41 PM »

Ok fellas, I got the lead out, now please keep this discussion on topic.

Tim

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2009, 03:59:10 AM »

Here's another vote for "either"-especially since you hand load. I've been playing with a .223 "Youth" Superlite I set up for smaller shooters to use during Michigan's Youth Hunt. I used the tiny rifle myself last deer season as an experiment on its effectiveness. The 53 gr. Barnes TSX, pushed by 25 gr. H4895, punched through the chest cavity causing impressive damage and quickly harvesting an adult, Northwoods doe. Postmortem examination convinced me that, given "boiler room" placement and reasonable distance, the new generation of .224 bullets designed for deer are very effective, even at .223 velocities.

The beauty of the .223 cartridge, of course, is that it has almost no recoil. That's a great help when teaching youngsters shooting fundamentals. Ironically, one downside of the .223 is noise. Muzzle blast is fierce (i.e., it has a very SHARP "crack" as opposed to a "boom"). But proper hearing protection will solve that problem.

PC

JerryKo · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2009, 07:55:15 AM »

Glad to hear the Barnes worked well. I haven't had the chance to harvest with it, but I was sure it would damage the vitals and exit. It did exit, right, and what was the velocity and distance, if you dont mind?

Jerry