Author Topic: Is one enough . (Read 20364 times)

Dee · « **Reply #30 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:01:07 PM »

Tree rats is what we were speaking of SHOOTALL. Squirrels. A good rat trap with a nail silver soldered on the bail, and then wood screwed onto a tree limb, baited with peanut butter will hunt all day until it scores, It doesn't miss very often, and is also silent in the hunt. Confronting the enemy is not always wise, and one should not consider them EVER as a good food source. Anonymity is paramount in surviving a break down. Even the coyote knows an injury means starvation, and retreats to hunt another day. Pressure will move him out of his familiar ground, and that again is a another peril to over come.

Swampman · « **Reply #31 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:03:46 PM »

Plenty of logic here.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:04:49 PM »

got ya !
i like fishing , hide the line under water tied to a couple rocks . out of site out of mind .

Dee · « **Reply #33 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:08:52 PM »

Fishin line? Hell SHOOTALL, lets catch some fish in this imaginary doomsday scenario. Lets build a fish trap. Lets poison some fish with green walnuts or rotenone fertilizer, lets build a fish fence in the creek. LETS EAT!

Oldshooter · « **Reply #34 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:26:42 PM »

I'm In for the eat'n stuff........I got my napkin on now!

Dee · « **Reply #35 on:** April 08, 2009, 02:59:48 PM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on April 08, 2009, 01:26:42 PM

I'm In for the eat'n stuff........I got my napkin on now!

Well then, LET'S FISH!

PartsMan · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:07:23 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 08, 2009, 11:27:42 AM

I have a friend that small game hunts with a .22 lever action. He never kills anything because they never stop moving.

My experiences with my 22 have been much different.

Heck I have shot a squirrel with a 54 cal black powder.
Not the best way to get meat though.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:49:03 AM »

Man lived for 1000's of years with out a gun or tool other than a rock knife , scraper , hammer , spear and arrowhead . And now many shale at the thought of not haveing a safe full of guns and a warehouse full of ammo. In the end one gun would work , it has in the past . I still like the shotgun , a good knife , fishing hooks /line and a dose of horse sense .
maybe a good ax !

Bart Solo · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2009, 07:41:22 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 09, 2009, 06:49:03 AM

Man lived for 1000's of years with out a gun or tool other than a rock knife , scraper , hammer , spear and arrowhead . And now many shale at the thought of not haveing a safe full of guns and a warehouse full of ammo. In the end one gun would work , it has in the past . I still like the shotgun , a good knife , fishing hooks /line and a dose of horse sense .
maybe a good ax !

Damn Shootall you are bringing reality into our daydreams. Around here we all like guns, so we all daydream about a safe full of guns and a warehouse full of ammunition being absolutely necessary to our survival. They are not. The dose of horse sense, on the other hand, is.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2009, 07:44:45 AM »

i started this , and alot of good ideas have come out . it seems where you live really decides the choice . I just wanted to see if anyone was reading or just posting .

catkiller · « **Reply #40 on:** April 20, 2009, 04:40:39 PM »

Don't forget the crank telephone for (calling up) the fish!

Dweezil · « **Reply #41 on:** April 21, 2009, 09:00:03 AM »

If only 1...a bolt action .22 or Ruger MK 2...suppressed, of course. Would choose the pistol over the rifle if choosing option 2 or 3. Don't want to carry 2 rifles.
If only 2...add scoped, Savage boltaction in .308, blind magazine.
If only 3..add reliable handgun in 9mm or .45. Probably a Glock

Really can't think of what to choose for a 4th gun. Would rather carry food or water. In most cases I can envision, a suppressed .22 would be adequate. I'd choose discretion over valor any day.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #42 on:** April 21, 2009, 09:58:17 AM »

1 A high quality concealable pistol. Survival is first goal, suprise is a good thing. Never be without a concealed hand gun, a last defense but a defense none the less. A long gun may well be confiscated by the first authority that sees it, the operative word being see's.

2 .223 semi auto AR or Ruger Mini14 carbine. Light weight and adequite power for most larger game and self defense. Sling it and always carry it with you. A rifle gives you good stand off capability. I wouldn't feel too badly undergunned with a .22 mag for that matter.

3 Pump shotgun, all around working gun. You can hand it to anyone and train them in a couple minutes to defend themselves, a few more minutes and they will have a hunting capability. Weight is a liability on the move, but bugging out isn't always the best option.

4 Bow and quiver full of arrows. I would add the equipment to build additional arrows. Stealthy way to put some meat on the table. Many will not covet your bow and will not try and take it away.

If limited to 1 gun it would be either the pistol or the AR depending on the scenario. Social disorder ie. flood, fuel disruption, rioting the handgun. Total anarchy, the AR fills the role perfectly. I have no illusions of hunting up game any game will be strictly opportune moments.

pastorp · « **Reply #43 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:28:06 AM »

As far as feeding yourself with a gun, you will starve if you feel you need to shoot everything you eat. Dee is dead on here. Use traps, deadfalls, snares. fish traps. You must forage as well. How many know the eatible foods in your area. Dig roots, harvest berries and nuts. If near a beach you can dig clams and other shellfish.

If you want to survive forget the gun and forage. I know were gun people but I've been there there is more to eat that you can get other ways than with a gun. I'm not saying to leave the gun home. I'm just saying expand you horizons. Go live with native people for a few years and you'll see what I mean.

Regards,

don heath · « **Reply #44 on:** May 25, 2009, 09:30:26 PM »

From an African view point:- you do not need a rifle for game. A snare or dead fall is far more useful in any survival setting - it is silent and efficient (ask 20 million African Poachers- using a rifle only gets you caught!).

1) A decent rifle that can be used to keep the lion from the door or the elephant out of the fruit trees - and reach out if you need to. Options start at .338 and go up. I have a 9,3 x62 but a .375 H&H would be more practical for most.

2) A 12g for anti personel defence. I like no 4 buck for "go away" shooting and SPSG (O Buck) if you actually want to kill someone. I used to own a Ithaca 10G during our 'dissident war'. It was a pig to carry- so I didn't. It was a house gun: but two rounds of No 4 from that threw an awful lot of lead in the direction of a muzzle flash - usually enough to make the owner of said muzzel flash to find other climates. Also soon learned that if you fired more than 2 rounds from any one possition, every AK found something to shoot at. 1st shot alerted them to your possition, by no 2 they were taking aim and if you hung arround to fire a third there was incoming! (I swoped my Mossberg 12 g with 8 in the mag for the 10g with 3 after working this out). In the last 20 years 12g ammo has improved considerably and 10g is almost impossible to get in Africa and doesn't seem to have made the same advances...now have a Benelli

3) A .357 revolver. I owns lots of handguns and generally carry a S&W 329 in the bush and shoot a 5" S&W 629 classic in IPSC competition- however, if I had to live with just one handgun for defence, I would keep the 3" M60 complete with crimson trace laser grips. It will kill a lion, it will kill somebody who jumps you and is small enough to be (concealed) on you 24 hrs a day. The 329 is easy to carry, and as a working PH it is fine hanging on the belt and I carry it or the old M58 in a shoulder bag when in town -but in general, for a survival gun, small is better and light is great- the M60 meets both of these. I used to carry a Glock 10mm in the bush, a F.N. high power in town and shoot an STI .40 in competition...but the 10mm isn't as good as even the .357 for bush use, and decided to stay with revolvers for bush carry and so swoped over to revolvers for competition and town.

4) ? Nothing immediately apparent but there is an awful lot you can do with a good, silenced .22 rifle

MarkNJ · « **Reply #45 on:** June 27, 2009, 04:30:15 PM »

I think you only need two guns, a .22 and a .308. The 22 gets the most use for small game and the 308 is for big game should the chance arise. I use a Ruger M77 II S/S with a x4 scope. It's also fully suppressed (legal over here) which tames the recoil back to 223 levels and gives a report like a 22 magnum. I load subsonic ammo for it for silent use (bad guys won't know where your shooting from) and with the suppressor off, the 18 inch barrel makes it a handy carbine.
The 22 is a Rossi single shot, youth model, shortened to 29 inches and threaded for a suppressor also. This is my main carry gun when camping with my kids. It's accurate and has sights from a Lee Enfield SMLE .303 meaning long range 22 shooting is possible (it's fun).
I also have a 10/22 for fun but it's the little Rossi and the 308 which will be kept for long term survival. I should mention, pistols are illegal here unless on a special licence and their use is restricted and as we have no dangerous animals it's possible to get away with just a 22 but I feel the 308 needs to be included.
I agree with the idea of gathering edible foods from the land. A knife and small axe or a machette will be used a lot more than any gun

the Rossi 22, with suppressor off. That adds another 6 inches

Ruger 308 with full lengh suppressor

Hodr · « **Reply #46 on:** June 27, 2009, 08:38:14 PM »

An Savage over/under with .22 and a 12 guage handles everything from rabbit up to bear and elk with 12 guage slugs

357 mag handi and revolver self defense, low noise with 38 special loads, takes up to hogs and deer, common ammo

a really good belt axe (gransfor burks) everything a knife can do, chops wood and can be devastating close in weapon

fish hooks liquor to trade

blindhari

Chappers · « **Reply #47 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:14:08 AM »

Four rifles??? To me that seems a bit impractical and to try to carry four firearms plus camping gear. It would be nice to have a firearm for this and then another to do that but at the end of the day a rifle is better than no rifle at all.
I would chose my trusty .22LR, my knife and third my mind so i can decide what are my limitations with what i got.
Not trying to stir the bit here just saying i would find that more easy to walk 40+ ks a day with my gear and one rifle. Than four firearms and ammo.

cowhound · « **Reply #48 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:46:08 AM »

22lr. 12ga. ,223 knife and a good cur dog the dog .You run out of ammo eat the dog.

mannyrock · « **Reply #49 on:** June 28, 2009, 05:51:20 PM »

Well, OK, if it absolutely comes down to just one gun, then:

1. If you plan to walk long distances with stuff on your back, then a .22LR, preferably in semi-auto. (Ruger 10/22 or Remington Nylon 66).

2. If you don't plan to walk long distance, then a Mini-14 Stainless in .223, with a .22LR conversion kit.

I have owned and hunted with shotguns for over 40 years, and quite frankly, I am not that impressed by them. I would never choose a shotgun as the One-Gun solution. The ammo is way too heavy, bulky, loud, and short-ranged for what you actually get in terms of effectiveness.

Regards,

Mannyrock

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #50 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:13:12 AM »

Win. 94 in one of the big bore calibers
12 ga. Pump. Probably a Mossberg (both rifled and smooth bore barrels, with optics for the rifled barrel)
Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt
AR-10 with a selection of uppers, scopes, and a bucket of spare parts
Sig-220 in .45 ACP

If I could choose to find them: a Remington 700 and/or Mauser 98 in .308 or .30-06 and a .338 Lapua with a pickup load of brass and bullets.

Can I just choose to survive over at GA precision's shop?

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #51 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:23:09 AM »

Quote from: don heath on May 25, 2009, 09:30:26 PM

From an African view point:- you do not need a rifle for game. A snare or dead fall is far more useful in any survival setting - it is silent and efficient (ask 20 million African Poachers- using a rifle only gets you caught!).

1) A decent rifle that can be used to keep the lion from the door or the elephant out of the fruit trees - and reach out if you need to. Options start at .338 and go up. I have a 9,3 x62 but a .375 H&H would be more practical for most.

2) A 12g for anti personel defence. I like no 4 buck for "go away" shooting and SPSG (O Buck) if you actually want to kill someone. I used to own a Ithaca 10G during our 'dissident war'. It was a pig to carry- so I didn't. It was a house gun: but two rounds of No 4 from that threw an awful lot of lead in the direction of a muzzle flash - usually enough to make the owner of said muzzel flash to find other climates. Also soon learned that if you fired more than 2 rounds from any one possition, every AK found something to shoot at. 1st shot alerted them to your possition, by no 2 they were taking aim and if you hung arround to fire a third there was incoming! (I swoped my Mossberg 12 g with 8 in the mag for the 10g with 3 after working this out). In the last 20 years 12g ammo has improved considerably and 10g is almost impossible to get in Africa and doesn't seem to have made the same advances...now have a Benelli

3) A .357 revolver. I owns lots of handguns and generally carry a S&W 329 in the bush and shoot a 5" S&W 629 classic in IPSC competition- however, if I had to live with just one handgun for defence, I would keep the 3" M60 complete with crimson trace laser grips. It will kill a lion, it will kill somebody who jumps you and is small enough to be (concealed) on you 24 hrs a day. The 329 is easy to carry, and as a working PH it is fine hanging on the belt and I carry it or the old M58 in a shoulder bag when in town -but in general, for a survival gun, small is better and light is great- the M60 meets both of these. I used to carry a Glock 10mm in the bush, a F.N. high power in town and shoot an STI .40 in competition...but the 10mm isn't as good as even the .357 for bush use, and decided to stay with revolvers for bush carry and so swoped over to revolvers for competition and town.

4) ? Nothing immediately apparent but there is an awful lot you can do with a good, silenced .22 rifle

Thanks for posting; I'm sorry to hear you had to find out the hard way what to have, but I'm glad you made it out alive. As with hunting game, I'm glad to be able to learn from your experience what works, and what don't. What do you think of the difference in weight, having to carry the 10 ga. and ammo vs. the 12 ga.?

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #52 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:26:53 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on April 21, 2009, 11:28:06 AM

As far as feeding yourself with a gun, you will starve if you feel you need to shoot everything you eat. Dee is dead on here. Use traps, deadfalls, snares. fish traps. You must forage as well. How many know the eatible foods in your area. Dig roots, harvest berries and nuts. If near a beach you can dig clams and other shellfish.

If you want to survive forget the gun and forage. I know were gun people but I've been there there is more to eat that you can get other ways than with a gun. I'm not saying to leave the gun home. I'm just saying expand you horizons. Go live with native people for a few years and you'll see what I mean.

Regards,

Does the native of Derby, Ks. that I married count? She never kills anything; she microwaves!

Swift One · « **Reply #53 on:** June 29, 2009, 08:11:12 AM »

4 firearms is too much for me too. I would be happy with two. A 22 rifle (single shot, bolt, pump, semi...it doesn't matter) with 1000rds. The next would be a 12ga pump with 25 slugs and 25 shells of number 6 shot. Of course a cleaning kit for both weapons. If I could only have one of those it would be a the 22 with 1000rds hands down. Im with the thought process of taking off of the dead and/or dying. This world is too populated (at least in my part of it) to not run into someone else. And the possibility of that someone else being hostile would propbably be high in the kill or be killed environment that it would be.

Of course there would be other items that I would take but the question was about firearms.

teddy12b · « **Reply #54 on:** June 29, 2009, 10:27:54 AM »

If I had to pick four guns only to keep for whatever reason....

Savage 30-06: It's my favorite & I'm most comfortable with it. 30-06 is as big as anyone needs.

Ruger 10-22: It does 99% of what needs done with a rifle.

Reminton 870: If I needed a shotgun, I'd grab this.

Handgun of choice in 9mm: I like the high cap aspect of the 9mm and that's what has kept it's popularity alive.

don heath · « **Reply #55 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:03:22 AM »

Travis

I would not choose to carry the old 10 Guage on foot anywhere! It was too heavy, and ammo supply too limiting. For shooting from a vehicle or for home protection- perfect, although todays 1 7/8 3" 12 gauge loads nearly duplicate the old 3½" 10 guage loads. In this day and age, in Africa there is no point in anything other than a 12 guage 3". Most ammo is 2 3/4 and it is what I would use for hunting (even lion or buffalo at a push with the new Estonian slugs), I would carry some 3" No 4 buck for saying 'Go Away' with authority.

My Experience of bad guys is that they go crying for mommy or a witchdoctor or whatever, with even a minor periforal hit - ie they loose the incentive to press home an attack.

The other thing that many armchair survivalists forget is that only hits count. Volume fire is intimidating only the first couple of times. After that you begin to appreciate that high volumes of incomming fire is less dangerous than noisy , and provided you are not trying to advance... a few hits confine the attack to a noisy long range demonstration!

There is a world of difference between attack and defence, Defence, weather it be from an animal or man requires a few well placed rounds. Attack always requires intimidation if total surprise is not achieved - and in gun terms that means accurately applied firepower.

teamnelson · « **Reply #56 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:23:18 AM »

Don, awesome post!

Judging by gun and ammo sales, lots of Americans are betting on a volume approach. Emptying a mag at someone is way different than putting a bullet in someone. A .22 can kill, but for most if they are shot or cut perhaps for the first time in their life their will to fight will drop drastically regardless of caliber. Any wound is life threatening in a survival situation.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:52:41 AM »

A 22 will kill most anything that's a fact . But a big but is will it stop man or beast bent on hurting you ?
To survive you must be able to stop the determined attack on the off chance you happen along on the one in a million that will press his attack ! man or beast of course !

mannyrock · « **Reply #58 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:57:26 PM »

Yes, Shotall, but that's why you use a .22 semi-auto rifle, and keep pulling that trigger as long as you are on target. It is easy to shoot six rounds in under 3 seconds! Nobody's gonna keep coming with six rounds of .22 LR solid point in them.

don heath · « **Reply #59 on:** June 30, 2009, 08:30:45 PM »

Manyrock- sorry to disagree... a .22 is not adequate for jackal up. I have made a reasonable living both as editor of the African Hunter magazine (retired from that in January this year) and as a working professional Hunter since I left Zimbabwe's national parks.

Amongst the hunting fraternity I am a noted 'small bore' man- I use a 9,3x62 as my every day working rifle - and 90% of all hunts I guide are either elephant or lion. Despite that, I say a .22 is not enough. One night we hit a poacher. two blasts of OO buck at about 12 paces - mostly in the stomach area but a couple in the one lung. All 18 Pellets hit him. He a) shot at us, and b) ran 2 km before he collapsed. Another took a .223 HP (IMI 55grn ) in the chest. Ran 11 km before he droped. Drugs or fear can drive the human body to do things beyond expectation. If there is a reasonable distance between you and any attacker - Human or animal, then you can use a small bore - distance gives time for accurate shot placement. If it is going to get close...I go back and pick up my double rifle if I have to follow a wounded animal into thick cover!

For a survival situation you need enough power to do the job properly the first time - and with the first shot. Firing multiple shots negates the value of lighter ammo! As a parks officer I used an 7.62 to kill both elephant and buffalo on control work. Most required multiple hits. Alot easier to carry a 9,3 and only fire once! Ultimately the ammo load is lighter and - during the various civil wars we have had, multiple shots (even on game) attracts attention. One shot is hard to place, several and you have been pinpointed (or visa versa- the poacheres often relied on multiple shots from an AK to kill a rhino- it greatly assisted us!)