My 336 RC 30-30

[Idaho Ron]

After I went out shooting today I wanted to post a picture and a couple of questions.  The rifle is a 1954, and the scope and rings were about the same age. The scope is a Weaver K3.


 These first questions are about HUNTING bullets. I am wanting to find a load for mule deer hunting.
What is the opinion of the Hornady 150 gr round nose?
How about the 150 gr Sierra FN?

I had only 12 Sierra FN's and I think they shot good. Availability right now is bad on all bullets and they are hard to get locally. When I get bullets I am going to have to order them. I have always liked the Hornady line of bullets. I got these Sierras with the gun from my Grandma. I started out with 30 gr of IMR 3031 and maxed out at 33 gr. I was shooting at 100 yards. The groups started out at about 3" and as I went up in powder the groups got better. At 32 gr of IMR 3031 I got this group below. I went to 33 gr but that group was about 2.5" so I think the Sierras are accurate enough but I don't know how they will work on game. But I would like to try the Hornadys because the other Hornadys I have used worked so well, so that is the problem. Here is my best group with 150 gr Sierra and 32 gr of IMR 3031.



The last question is I would like to add a sling to this rifle. Which one do you like?  Thanks  Ron

[pastorp]

Ron, all 3 weights of sierra FN bullets in .308 caliber, are game bullets made for the 30/30. They are designed for the 30/30 velocity envelope and for deer size game. I believe you'll like them. I have always found sierra bullets to be accurate.  Regards

[Badnews Bob]

Thats a darned good group from that old lady, good shooting, Personally I think Rem 170gr core locs are hard to beat out of the .30-30.

[brianscott12]

Nice.

[Siskiyou]

The 30-30 has been around long enough it is hard to go wrong with most of the brands on deer.  About 30-years ago I did some load development with my Marlin 30-30 using the 150-grain Hornady Round Nose, and 4320 powder.  Last month I loaded over a hundred rounds and used the same combination.  I have found the 150-grain round nose from Hornady to be accurate in my Marlin. 

In the far distant pass I used 170-grain Federal in my rifle, a few years ago I did a shot-off with 170-grain Federal, 150-grain Remington C-L, and 150-grain WW Power Points.  This time around the Remington C-L proved to be the most accurate.  Before the Obama effect the after season sales on 30-30 ammunition was so good at Wal Mart I just picked up a few boxes every once and awhile and did not bother to load for my 30-30.

Out of curiosity I just ran the following 150-grain bullets designed for the 30-30 using the Sierra Bullets Infinity program, the Sierra FN, Winchester PP, and the Remington C-L.  I started all three bullets at the same velocity.  At 150-yards the Sierra FN was going faster then the other two and the trajectory remained flatter.  The Winchester, and Remington bullets were neck-in-neck.

I bought four boxes of factory loaded LEVERevolution ammunition for hunting.  I do not think I can match the factory load.  When the snow clears I hope to fire my current reloads across the Chrony, and sight the rifle in with the LEVERevolution ammunition.  Hope they are about the same at 100-yards so I can practice with the reloads. 

Components are tough to get about anywhere, I intentionally loaded up 99.44% of my 4320 and have not found any more on the shelve.  I needed another option and picked up a pound of H335.  I was looking for the 30-30 bullets on the bear shelves the other day and I could not find any.  In fact the only box of .308 diameter bullets left was one box of 200 grain Nosler Partitions.  I have part of a box of the Hornady round nose left, and a full box of 150-grain Remington C-L.

I checked your 33-grain load with 3031 and it appears to exceed maximum in three different manuals.  My 4320 load is at maximum but I have chosen not to exceed it.

[Idaho Ron]

That is interesting about the 33 grains. I first looked in the Hodgdon # 27 data manual. It shows a top load of 35 grains. So I looked at an old Lyman manual, and it said 33 was the top end for a 150. Hornady third edition says  32.5 top end. The Sierra third edition has only 31.1 top end. So I got interested and looked more and saw the Speer #9 says only 28.5 grains top end. When I went to find a load I went to the newest book I had the Hodgdon #27 and cut it way back. The 32 grains I am going to use don't show any signs of pressure. I think they will be ok for that.  Let us know what you think of the leverevolution rounds.  Ron

[PeterCartwright]

Ron:

Nice lookin' Marlin and GREAT shooting.  All my hunting is "flat lander" stuff.  Don't have much need for "reach" in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.  Reach is likely more important for you.  Westerners have been putting Mulies in the freezer with 150 gr. .30-30 loads for decades.  There are certainly no flies on the load that printed so well for you.

I've only played a little bit with the Leverevolution stuff.  Two Marlins in which I've tried it seemed to like it just fine, though it radically changed point of impact.  Of all the LE loads, the .30-30 gains the most benefit from this new technology.  It certainly stretches the reach of the humble .30-30.

By the way, I own a 336 RC (about '62 vintage) in .35 Remington that also wears a Weaver K3 (with the Post/cross-hair reticle).  Great combo!  Used mine to put a smaller black bear in the freezer last September.

Good shooting!

PC

[Idaho Ron]

I went to several small stores last night looking for ANY bullets to reload with. I didn't find any in a 40-mile radius. I would like to see if the 32 gr load was just a fluke.  Ron

[Sweetwater]

Sounds like you did a fair amount of research of powder charges and a neat piece of load development! That's a fine group!! I've prefered Hornady's or cast in my Lever guns, and 170gr or better. Maybe I've missed the boat not trying 150gr! Supplies are hard to come by at present, as we all are experiencing.

FWIW - my #5 Speer Manual (1962) lists 34gr 3031 with 150gr bullets for the 30-30 and we all know what happened with listed loads and powder burning rates in these past 47 years. My #12 & #13 Speer manuals don't even list 3031 with 150gr bullets for the 30-30.

Good luck and keep the Old Girl up and running!

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Idaho Ron]

Well I ordered some Sierras from Midway. I was going to get the Hornadys but they were out. I ordered a .311 sizer die, a die to open the mouth of the cases and a slig set up. I have a lyman 311291 it throws a 170 gr bullet. I didn't have much luck with the naked so I am going to paper patch them and try them again. Ron

[petemi]

Peter, I'm 7 miles north of Engadine on Da U.P., right where the farm fields meet the woods.  Shots here can be from 5 to 500 yards. I didn't take a deer in 2008 with my 336T .30-30, but I did get a buck on my own farm with a .45-70 Handi Rifle and a 325 gr. Hornaday LE.  220 yards....Bang Flop.  I love the LEs in the .45-70, and have a bunch to try in the .30-30 336 as soon as this ##^&**^%$ snow gets out of here.......soon, I think......I hope.

Where are you located?

Pete

[Siskiyou]

Reloading manuals are a good “guide”.   Having loaded for a lot of years I have followed the guidelines in my older manuals when they were the newest on the market.  I have not blown up a gun, damaged a gun or suffered any injury in following the direction in the older manual. 

I just dug out two of my older the manuals, the oldest manual I have is down at the bench so I have not consulted it.  My Lyman 44th edition copyright 1967 shows a maximum load of IMR3031 with a 150-grain bullet as 33.5 grains.  It shows it being a compressed load.   My twenty-fifth edition Hodgdon shows the maximum IMR3031 charge at 33.0 grains developing 38,600 CUP.  But the 46th Edition Lyman has dropped the recommend charge of IMR3031 to 28.5 grains at a pressure of 36,000 CUP. 

Taken from the Hodgdon website this morning:
150 GR. SIE FN    IMR    IMR 3031    0.308"    2.550"    28.7    2085    28,700 CUP    30.5    2192    36,000 CUP

I was not being critical when pointing out the published maximum in my earlier post.  I have seen a great deal of variance in data for the 30-30 cartridge.  One of the biggest factors is that all testing equipment is not the same, and the components tested from the barrel to the primer are different.   Pressure measurement methods have changed. 

I have a running argument with myself when it comes to loading for my 30-30 Marlin 336 manufacture around 1971.  I know that my current load works without a problem in my rifle.  I spent a lot of time loading and test firing for a safe, accurate loaded.  I have thought about increasing the charge a one or two grains because I think I can without a problem.  It is like having the Devil on one shoulder, and an Angel on the other. 

I cannot help but think the steel has improved in my rifle since Marlin start chambering rifles for the 30-30 Winchester over a hundred years ago.  When I was a kid there was a couple old enough to be my great grandparents who would take me out on their hunts, or down to the river fishing.  They had a matching pair of Long Tom, Octagon barrel Winchester Model 94s in 30-30 Winchester.  I suspect these rifles were fifty years old then; another fifty years have since gone by. 

Has there been any improvement in case metallurgy or has it been stagnant?  There has been a lot written about the thin 30-30 case.  I am amazed that I have never had a problem with a 30-30 case.  I have never buckled one, or split one.  I feel the Angel won out in my case, with care I work towards the published maximum load realizing there are differences in published material.  The Devil in me might have me using old data.  Much has been said on these forums about this.  THE MESSAGE GIVEN IS DO NOT USE OLD DATA!   

My original 30-30 load using IMR4320 came from a Hornady Manual, which shows 35.7 grains as maximum, and Hodgdon Manual, which showed 35 grains as maximum.  I hit a sweet spot in my load development at 34-grains, using CCI 200 primers, and the Hornady 150-grain Roundnose bullet. 

I called a couple of reloading manual companies at one time regarding powders included or not included in the most current publication.  They made the point that there has been a growth in the number of powders that address the same application.  They have published data on older powders and try in update the latest publication with some of the new powders.  They allocate space for each cartridge, which means that all applicable powders are not included.  Hornady did not included IMR4320 data in their latest manual for the 30-30 Winchester.  I am satisfied with my earlier work using IMR4320 believing I had covered all the bases.

This morning I checked the most current data using IMR4320 online: http://www.hodgdon.com/


150 GR. SIE FN IMR 4320 .308"    2.550" 30.5    2062    32,500 CUP    32.5    2127    36,500 CUP
                              
I find myself in the same boat as Idaho Ron.  In my case I am suddenly 1.5 grains over a published maximum.  I have no intention of pulling over one hundred bullets from these proven loads.  I will use my normal safety pre-cautions at the bench, wearing oversized safety glasses, Nomex scarf, and leather gloves.  I might add my motorcycle helmet, and the goggles should fit over my safety glasses. 

**If you have not realized it, I am mocking myself!

[Idaho Ron]

Wow if you get that dressed up for a reloading how did you dress as a kid going on a date
I didn't take the first post wrong.
 It is amazing that the data changes. I think you are right, the equipment used to measure the pressure is what makes the difference I think.
If you want to see a HUGE change in data. My 243 load is a 100 gr bullet with 44 gr of H 4350. Now that one is so far over it is scary, but it wasn't at the time I first started to use it. Ron

[Stuart C.]

Look what that ol' thutty thutty and a K3 can do at 100.
Sa..weet.

[Idaho Ron]

Well  Friday I got two boxes of Sierra 150's to make sure that load was not just a fluke group. I tried to put a uncle mikes hammer extension on it and it does not fit. I got the one that said pre 1981 and the package says 1957 to 1982. I gues I will have to send it back. I did get one of the sling swivels that clamp on. I needed a way to add a sling. I hope the wind will let up in the next week so I can try this load again.  Ron

[zoner]

I really like that k3 set-up on the Marlin

[rickt300]

Way back in the 70's I hunted with a Marlin a lot and at the time I loaded 32.2 grs. of 3031 under just about any 150 gr. bullet but the two I shot most were the Power point and the Sierra Flat nose. I got great accuracy and the Sierra bullet put Texas whitetails down hard. The manual I was using at the time maxed out a 34.0 grains but I wanted to keep stretching to a minimum and accuracy was just like what your getting. I presently have a 1966 model in 30-30 and a 1957 model in 35 Remington. I ordered my hammer extensions from Graf's and they fit just fine on both rifles. I now shoot 30.0 grs. of 3031 under a 170 gr bullet, either the Sierra or the Remington corelokt with excellent accuracy. I went to the heavier bullet for a bit of an edge on the big feral hogs running around. I also found some Federal Red box ammo on sale that uses a 170 gr. round nose and is very accurate so when I shoot up these four boxes I'll have some new brass to load.