Fouling

[Double 30]

My .223 is the worst fouling barrel I've ever seen! She's accurate but after 10 shots she'll throw a 2 inch group and then be back to the inch range ( 3 at 100).The other day I looked in the bore after round #9 and could see lumps of copper on the lands!# 10 made it go away and then she shot 3/4 -1 1/2 inch groups after that.Its also a bugger to completely remove!When I did finally get it out, the tops of the lands , and to a lesser degree the grooves, have tool marks on them that give a washboard appearance. JB paste treatments have proven useless in smoothing things out. She has 160 rounds through her and I'm hopeful that shooting will smooth her abit.I'm fearful of lapping because her bore/ groove measurements are pretty close to max as is .220/.224 respectively.Gonna call H&R and see what they say.I may have to get this barrel replaced, or order another .223 and have this tube stubbed or re-bored into something interesting...Anyone out there have this problem? BTW she's a 2008 model ( HY)

[cwlongshot]

  Sounds to me like a bad barrel made at the end of the life of the tooling. Shoot it until accuracy goes in the toilet and return to H&R. As long as its a newer barrel. They have a standard for accuracy, if that barrel will not attain it it will be replaced.

 Tim will know the actual time frame for returnable barrels. But that is definitely not a barrel that should have gone out...

CW

[murphdog]

Double 30,
Your post really caught my attention.  I've got a 223 ultra barrel with a similar problem.  Mine was purchased as an accessory barrel last summer (2008) during the transition to Ilion.  Originally when I looked down the barrel I thought I saw flakes of unburnt powder fouing, but when it wouldn't clean out I realized I was looking at surprisingly large tool marks.  I decided to try polishing and shooting the barrel in, and after 100 rounds and lots of bore paste, the sharp edges are worn off eliminating the burnt flake appearance, and my lands now have an undulating wavy washboard appearance similar to what you describe.  I just took a test shot, and still get obvious copper fouling (lots of blue on the patch) after a single shot.  Accuracy wise, the first 1 or 2 shots go way high, giving a 5-6 inch vertical group (3-shot,100 yd).  The fouling seems to help the barrel though, and the next 3 shots give a decent group that varies from 3/4 to 1.5 inches (probably as good as I can shoot).  Subsequent 3-shot groups gradually open up again so that the 4th and 5th groups will be 2-3 inches.  I've been in a quandary whether to keep working with it, or to call H&R to see if they would replace it.  Guy at the gun shop says keep shooting and it will eventually smooth up.  Of course, I'm buying the ammo from him .  I'm kind of stubborn, so I'll probably keep working with it for a while though. 
Duane

[quickdtoo]

I dunno what Remington's position is on out of warranty issues, H&R's warranty has always been 2yrs, but Gardner replaced barrels many years after that warranty was up and on second hand rifles to boot. My advice would be to use flitz which is more aggressive than JB if you want to try and repair it yourself, if you don't, contact H&R about getting the barrel replaced, as long as they have a barrel in stock, it shouldn't take more than a month turn around.

Tim

[Double 30]

Murphdog , Our rifles are twins...I believe I'll send mine back and see.Its frustrating. I kinda hoped that the Remington take over would've brought some improvement in barrel quality.Yes these are not expensive rifles but if they're not going to put the money into the exterior barrel finish they could at least put it into the interior. I'm not changing my mind though.These are still great rifles. Will report as things progress 

[murphdog]

Double 30,
Given the timing of my purchase and yours (2008), I strongly suspect that Remington was installing barrels that were produced by Marlin.  I'm sure that Remington's purchase included existing H&R inventory.  So I don't think we can really judge Remingtons production methods by these barrels.  (Quality control might be another issue, but I know things were really hectic for them right after the transition.)  If you send your barrel back, I will be very interested in hearing the results. 
I know what you mean about loving these rifles.  I've bought 2 handirifle barrels, and both have had problems, but I still find that I love this little gun.  I love its handling, simplicity, and "tinkerability".  My original 44mag barrel had accuracy issues and I finally sent it back after tinkering with it for a year, and I'm quite satisfied with the replacement barrel they gave me.  Ain't perfect (oversize bore), but its good enough with factory ammo, and its a tack driver with hard cast bullets.  And I've really enjoyed tinkering with this 223 barrel too.  I just love shooting and trying different things, and this barrel has given me a lot of things to try and a lot of things to learn.  And once I get an imperfect gun to shoot well, I have a sense of accomplishment.  And, if I can't get it to shoot, my previous experience suggests that Remington will make it good for me. 
Duane

[Double 30]

She's going back.I wondered if a little copper in the bore might help.Some rifles like alittle fouling...This one does not.My best group was 1 3/4 and the worst was a hair over 3 inches.Disappointing, but hopefully Remington will make it all better...

[cwlongshot]

She's going back.I wondered if a little copper in the bore might help.Some rifles like a little fouling...This one does not.My best group was 1 3/4 and the worst was a hair over 3 inches.Disappointing, but hopefully Remington will make it all better...

 Its rough to have to return a new gun, when it should have been made correctly for the get go. But I think this was your best option. Post up when its back and let us all know how it turned out.

CW

[Troyboy]

It really makes you wonder who is inspecting these barrels before they are shipped out. They really need to step up the qc or more financial losses are on the horizon. Personally i feel that this lack of respect for the consumer is big buisness worst problem

[ipyrek]

I have a 243 with the washbord look on one of the grooves. Just bought the gun 2 months ago. Just sent it back the other day. I will not keep a defective barrel and mess with it , no matter how good or bad it shoots.