Author Topic: Early model 83, does anybody know..... (Read 2685 times)

suba · « **on:** March 14, 2009, 12:53:45 PM »

Hey guys

Does anyone know what year FA changed the 83 from the old style firing pin to the replaceable pin. Does anyone know what year they started making premier and field grade. Some of you probably read where I recently bought one of the original model 83's with fixed firing pin, and no lettering in the right side. It's got the carbide forcing cone, and what looks to be the old Westinghouse ivory paper micarta grips.

The seller told me the gun came from an estate sale. The seller said he talked to Bob Baker, and Bob said he thought it was made in the late 80's but I asked John at FA and he said he thought he remembered the gun and thought it was made in the early 90's., but I've also read that the ivory micarta hasn't been offered since the late 80's so I'm not sure what to think. Making matters more confusing the gun has a special serial #. I don't want to bother anyone at FA about this because I know they're busy. I'm wondering if anyone knows what year they changed over to the current design. For my own records I'd love to know what year this gun was built. I suspect FA might charge $25 to search the Serial # but not sure. If I knew when they changed over I would at least know the latest year the gun could have been built.

Thanks a lot.....

BigMuddy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:05:51 AM »

I would like to know too...

The fact that your gun does not say "Premier Grade" puts it earlier than the firing pin change. Your gun obviously was made before they introduced the Field Grade guns. I have a field grade with the older firing pin arrangement. I have two that are that old too. I am sure it has the two patent dates also.

BTW, one of my older guns has the new firing pin bushing. It was upgraded at some point.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:05:20 AM »

If you want the facts, not speculation, bite the bullet and ask FA., and give them the serial number. Whatever it costs, you'll have the facts that you say you want to know.

suba · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2009, 11:52:09 AM »

Muddy, yes my gun has the two patents. I actually like the old firing pin arrangement. Sure if you break it there's no quick fix, but I've never broken a pin yet. Now I do have another FA. It's a Premier 44 built with of course the new pin, but I like the original model better because to me it has more intrinsic value. The neat thing about my 454 is it doesn't have a scratch on it. From the condition of the forcing cone, barrel, and cylinder my guess is it was shot a handful of times at most.

Ken, of course you are right. I don't thrive on speculation. The first thing I did when I got my gun was send an email to FA explaining I just bought the gun, and asking if they could please look up the serial # and tell me when it was build. They never returned my email about it. Then I read somewhere that FA charge's $25 for a SN search, but some speculated it was a search if you wanted a special #. When I spoke to John at FA about my gun, I did tell him I'd like to know when the gun was built. He said without doing a search his guess was the early 90's, but he never told me what was involved to do a search. When my gun gets back, I'll send them another email asking if they could tell me when the gun was built, and do they charge for that.

btw, semper fi...

targetshootr · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2009, 04:40:42 PM »

I called their toll free number and found mine was made in '89. Shortly after that the firing pin went missing and was told it needed the new style. The price was unreasonable so I bought the new firing pin from them and realized their labor is two or three times what other gunshops charge.

paul105 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2009, 05:16:20 PM »

targetshootr

I don't understand your response. Would you mind elaborating a bit?

TIA,

Paul

targetshootr · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:49:37 AM »

Their prices to do repairs are not in line with other gunsmiths. And their warranty is nothing compared to companies like Ruger. Ruger will fix a gun no matter how old it is. Last year I sent Ruger an old 44 flat top when the ejector housing stud came off. They soldered it back on, also installed a higher front sight, replaced the rear sight, reblued the gun and didn't charge me for any of it, they even covered shipping. And they sell their guns at 1/3 of the price of an FA.

suba · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:57:18 AM »

I also would appreciate a more in depth description of you're experience. I wasn't even aware there is a toll free number. Now I'm going to have to call FA and see if I can buy the old style pin. The reason I bought my gun in part is because it's all original. Although the replaceable firing pin is no doubt a good upgrade, I would prefer to keep mine original.

My plan now is to find a new old style pin ( or two ) and somehow secure it to the inside of the frame behind the grips where it won't get lost. Anyone know if FA still sells the old pins, or where I could find one ?

suba · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:04:00 AM »

oops.... pardon me I see you just posted.

By your own words I can see that you are heavily bias against FA in favor of Ruger. FA is not Ruger. It's a very small company. If they need to charge what most would consider fair in order to stay in business so be it. Just to keep ya honest, I'd like to see that invoice from Ruger.

targetshootr · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:03:40 AM »

I don't care if you believe me or not. I am biased against FA because I own one of their guns and as soon as it gets back from the gunsmith it's going to be for sale.

By the way, I don't believe FA will sell the old style firing pin. They require you send it back to them at your expense so they can charge you to install the new kind. And then they'll charge you to ship it back. Their firing pins appear to fail at a high rate and even though they won't admit it, all you have to do is check out forums like this to see. It seems to me to avoid litigation they would issue a recall and do the replacements for free, like Ruger does with old model actions. Eventually someone will be eaten by a bear as as result of a firing pin failure and then they'll have hell to pay.

suba · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:17:16 AM »

Nope....never said I didn't believe you. Just wanted to give you an opportunity to show you can back up you're statements with facts. About the old firing pins. I have read where some people seem to break them with some regularity, but they could break through no fault of their own I guess. Still, I can't believe the pins are ill designed or somehow innately defective. With proper care they should not break. Not many reporting broken pins anyway it seems. I think common sense is called for. No dry fire not even snap caps. Who the heck needs to practice dry fire with snap caps ? Not me......

BigMuddy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:18:36 AM »

targetshootr

I didn't know they had a toll free number either. Can you post what it is? (When I call them from work I have to use my calling card).

Is your gun a "Premier" grade? I ask because I have wondered if a broken firing pin needed fixed on my older guns if it was still a "no charge" repair.

What is the gun you will be selling and how much $$$?

I did break one on a newer gun and it was a pop fly to replace. I like the newer arrangement. Be sure to heed their advice and DO NOT dry fire them!!

targetshootr · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:27:55 AM »

Quote from: suba on March 17, 2009, 07:17:16 AM

never said I didn't believe you. Just wanted to give you an opportunity to show you can back up you're statements with facts.

Same difference but like I said, I don't care. Do some research on the Ruger Forum and then get back to us.

Muddy, try 800-833-4432.

suba · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:31:22 AM »

target.....

No, you made the statement. Don't push this off on me. When you can find the invoice where all the work you stated was free including the shipping you get back to us.

BigMuddy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:37:11 AM »

targetshootr

Thanks for that number.

If your gun is a Premier grade I would have expected a broken firing pin to be repaired at no charge no matter how they choose to do it.

Field Grade guns are only warrantied for one year, thus part of the difference in cost. Those you have to pay to get fixed.

targetshootr · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:42:54 AM »

Quote from: suba on March 17, 2009, 07:31:22 AM

No, you made the statement. Don't push this off on me. When you can find the invoice where all the work you stated was free including the shipping you get back to us.

You clearly aren't familiar with Ruger service so the next step is name-calling which you should know, I'm pretty good at if you wanna go there.

Muddy, I have a 454/45colt FG convertible with a 6" factory octagon barrel installed by Huntington. It comes with matte silver Leupold M8-4x EER scope, matte silver scope base, black micarta grips by Huntington, factopry rubber grips, several front sight blades, extra rear sight. $1650 shipped. The 45 colt cylinder has a polished finish to tell them apart. I also have lots of factory FA ammo, FA brass and Staline brass to sell.

BigMuddy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:02:58 AM »

Sent you a PM tagetshootr,

Sounds like a nice gun at a real nice price.

Suba...we STILL don't know when our guns were made do we

suba · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:10:35 AM »

target,

Nope, no name calling. Won't go there, but IMO your comments about FA along with their firing pins are inflammatory and slanderous. You've made outlandish and crazy statements which are designed for one purpose. That purpose is to harm the good name of Freedom Arms. Plain and simple. Clearly you have bad blood with them, and I suspect with other companies as well. My experience with FA suggests they are extremely easy and friendly to deal with.

You are right about the 1-800 number, but you are dead wrong about them not selling the old style firing pin. I just talked to FA. They said the old style pin and the new style pin are exactly the same. The only difference is the new pin has the screw in bushing. FA encourages people who break their pin to have the new style pin installed, but they do not require it. They will install the old pin if you ask, and it's cheaper. The old pin and spring costs about $7.00

I was told the usual reason pins break is either dry firing or excessive snap caps. Snap caps don't offer the same resistance as a fired round. If people want to practice firing the gun they should go out and shoot it IMHO. You're FA sounds like a gem. Too bad you feel you need to sell it. The price you are asking seems very fair.

Muddy.....I talked to them about my gun while I was on the phone. My gun was built in the spring of 1989.

targetshootr · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:35:36 PM »

Quote from: suba on March 17, 2009, 08:10:35 AM

IMO your comments about FA along with their firing pins are inflammatory and slanderous. You've made outlandish and crazy statements which are designed for one purpose. That purpose is to harm the good name of Freedom Arms. Plain and simple.

That's lunatic blathering of course but you can wag your finger as well as any church lady, I'll give you that.

Quote

You are right about the 1-800 number, but you are dead wrong about them not selling the old style firing pin. I just talked to FA. They said the old style pin and the new style pin are exactly the same. The only difference is the new pin has the screw in bushing. FA encourages people who break their pin to have the new style pin installed, but they do not require it. They will install the old pin if you ask, and it's cheaper. The old pin and spring costs about $7.00

I guess it depends on who you talk to. I was told they would not replace mine, they would install the new style bushing at my expense and that was that. It was only after me insisting that they sold me a new bushing and a new firing pin for someone else to install. I would have been happy to let them do the work if their labor rate was reasonable or if they offered to pay part of the shipping... but they don't do either.

suba · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:43:29 PM »

Look....shootr

I don't think you're a bad guy, and I'm certainly not a church lady. I don't want to be the new guy that goes around busting someone's balls. This is what i think. I think you're not telling the whole story. Your only telling the part you want to tell. Much more going on here besides a broken firing pin.

Tell me, was that the first pin that broke, or did you have a previous pin on that gun break ? It also might have been you misunderstood the conversation. It's hard for me to clearly hear the conversation with them partly because it sounds pretty noisy in their shop, and partly because my ears ring so bad from all the darn shooting I've ever done

Last, it seems you put a lot of love and money into your FA. It doesn't seem right to get rid of it over a silly firing pin incident. Any business needs to charge enough to stay in business. Can you imagine what it costs FA to stay in business let alone make a decent profit. They are a small specialty company, and many including myself are grateful they have not cheapened their product or gone under. btw, their shipping me a spare firing pin with my gun

Now, is there more to your story .........

targetshootr · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:13:16 PM »

What you seem to have missed is that my gun was made in '89, as I said above. So it has no bushing to allow me to replace the firing pin myself so FA wanted it sent back at considerable cost to myself.

suba · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:31:15 PM »

This is what I'm hearing. You have an 89 FG with the old pin. You call FA, and they say its going to cost X for the repair, and you will have to pay shipping both ways. Nothing new there. You don't like the repair price, but maybe you'll go for it if they pick up shipping. They won't cover shipping so you tell them to sell you a pin and you'll get-r-done elsewhere. You send them the money....they send you the pin, and you've had a grudge ever sense. Did I get this right ?

What I don't understand is the FG part, but it's not important. I have an 89 also, and no FG or PG on it. Does your have anything on the right side ? Are you the original owner ? Did you have all that work done by Huntington, or did you buy it that way.....

Hank08 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:10:37 PM »

Suba, did you find out when FA started making the field grade? I bought a .454 field grade in
either 89 or it could have been early 90. I'd sure like to know if you pinned it down.
H08

suba · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:33:50 PM »

Hey Hank,

I can only tell you this. FA researched my gun. It was built April 89. I have nothing on the right side with the two patents on the left. It's my guess the changeover occurred somewhere between 89 or 90. There may have been some old stock left over during that time, but most would have the FG~PG. This is purely a guess.

I've bothered those good folks at FA enough for the time being. The one thing I did not ask is what year they completely change over, or even what year did they start producing FG and PG. Maybe someone who knows the folks over there a little better than I might want to ask, and please post back because I would like to know too.

Carlislegr · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:44:39 AM »

My notes show the field grade gun was introduced in March, 1986. This should be reasonably accurate.

suba · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2009, 03:06:23 AM »

Carl,

Thanks for the information. The question I have is, did those early guns have FG or PG on the right side of the frame, or were they just bead blasted. My second question is when did the changeover to the new patent guns take place.

The old patent guns had more differences besides the firing pin. The old patents have a screw and nut holding the base of the mainspring in place, while the new guns have a pocket cast into the frame for that purpose. I have one of each. The old patents looks like they might allow more latitude tuning the action, but that's just my guess. The new guns with the pocket no doubt speeds up assembly. Conversely the old guns no doubt took longer to assemble just right, but the nut could eventually shoot loose if it wasn't secured well.

doghawg · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:55:50 AM »

I was shooting my made in '85 Mod 83 a couple of weeks ago and absentmindedly dropped the hammer for round number 6....

. When I tried to extract the empties the cylinder didn't want to rotate. The second hammer fall on the spent primer caused the firing pin to temporarily stick in what was now a very deep firing pin indent. It seems obvious that in order to reliably ignite rifle spark plugs in a revolver a heavy hammer fall would be needed. If I had forcefully cocked the hammer at that point (rather than gently rocking the cylinder) there is no doubt the firing pin could have broke. I wonder if this is how some are being broken. FA's are the finest revolver made IMO but like any firearm you have to THINK when using it.

myronman3 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:06:05 AM »

i believe every word about ruger's service. but a ruger is a far cry from a f.a.., i i think f.a.'s are worth every penny.

suba · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:26:50 PM »

dawg, that's a good story to pass on. I agree no matter how much it hurts....you have to think

You would have most certainly broken the pin had you forcefully cocked the hammer, and thanks for passing on that bit of wisdom. I was just telling another member here how I wanted to fly floats in Alaska back in my early 40's, but never made it up there. Plane crashes are a lot like guns. If something goes wrong it's always a chain of events, and it's almost always human error.

man3, your also right. FA's are worth every penny.

Carlislegr · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:38:17 PM »

Now that I have my glasses on, I see that I typed the year incorrectly. Year should be 1988, AS model was $795 and FS model was $725 retail. Of course one could buy a model 83 for $1095.00 in AS. You could also buy a 45 Colt only for $995.00 I don't think they made more than 6 of these guns! No one wanted to pay a thousand dollars for a 45 Colt. Sorry for the confusion