Author Topic: Handi 6.5-284 ? (Read 1109 times)

crp · « **on:** March 03, 2009, 01:53:24 PM »

Has anyone converted a handi to 6.5-284?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:58:25 PM »

Just asking but would the rebated rim be a pain in the toosh with the ejector?
Would 6.5X55 or 264 Win mag be easier to get the case out?
You could get the forend for the muzzel loader and carry around a ram rod.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:36:31 PM »

Personally I would look into one of the wild cats based off the 444 case chambered to 6.5.

IIRC, there was another member here who just did a write up on one he had made.

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:49:58 PM »

I think GregP42 has a 6.5-284 Handi. The rebated rim is not a problem even with an ejector barrel, my 300WSM worked fine.

The member CW is referring to is no longer here, he was a banned member under registered under a different name and using a different IP.

Tim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2009, 03:02:19 PM »

There is at least one, 6mmX284 floating around here, hopefully that member will pipe in.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:23:00 PM »

What are the psi's involved w/ the 6.5 x 284 cartridge?

A 6mm x 284 is a much easier task as the 6mm bbl is already floating around in a heavy version. Also a bbl burner, both of them.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:58:03 PM »

There's no SAAMI MAP for the 6.5-284, but the spec for the 284 Win is 56kpsi, but with a casehead of .500", it's not exactly Handi friendly.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

GregP42 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:44:54 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 03, 2009, 02:49:58 PM

I think GregP42 has a 6.5-284 Handi. The rebated rim is not a problem even with an ejector barrel, my 300WSM worked fine.

The member CW is referring to is no longer here, he was a banned member under registered under a different name and using a different IP.

Tim

Tim,

I don't have it yet, but it is on the drawing board for after I get to go back to work and pay off all these doctors. The only one I have is built on a Mauser action right now. But Wayne and I have talked about it. You just need to use the standard .473 base size extractor, as it drops down out of the way you can load just fine and it will lift them out.

Greg

GregP42 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:47:21 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 03, 2009, 04:58:03 PM

There's no SAAMI MAP for the 6.5-284, but the spec for the 284 Win is 56kpsi, but with a casehead of .500", it's not exactly Handi friendly.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Tim,

The case head is the standard .473, and the 6.5-284 is now a standard loading, I think it is being loaded to 58k, but would need to look and see what Norma is doing with it.

Greg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:55:42 PM »

The rim is .473", the case head is .500", rim diameter is a non-issue and has no effect on breech(bolt) thrust. Breech thrust is dependent on the inside surface area of the casehead and pressure. I considered the 6.5-284 before I had the 6.5x55 made, I discussed it with Wayne and decided I didn't want to get into the same issues I had with the 300WSM.

Tim

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

Bolt Thrust

Bolt thrust is easy to calculate. Only two inputs are required. They are peak chamber pressure in PSI and as mentioned, the inside area of the case head that the gas pressure can work on. The formula then is:

THRUST=AREA*CPSI Where:

AREA=3.1416*(HS/2)^2

HS=the diameter of the inside of the case head.

284 Winchester

bajabill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2009, 05:26:24 AM »

I have my suspicions the area to be used may even be larger than the inside diameter, as the brass is not an effective structural support for the pressure by itself. I would not be surprised if the actual region requiring rearward support is closer to the OD of the case. Without getting into details like poisons ratio or plasticity.

NFG · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2009, 07:49:21 AM »

The case capacity for the 6.5x284 Norma is about 66 gr...for the 444 M about 72 gr. so after sizing down the 444 M the capacities are about the same...the pressures are similar to 30-06, 270, 280, 25-06 etc, etc, etc...not a problem if you load for the receiver as you SHOULD...both are custom cartridges for all intents and purposes even though Norma has factory 6.5x284 ammo available...it isn't something you can just walk into your local 'Mart and pick up... also the extractor isn't a problem for any 'smith doing the conversion.

I don't see any problems in doing a stub barrel jobby...you should have a 28-32" barrel anyway to get all the potential out of the setup.

I think the 6.5x444 is good also except for the PITA of making the cases...it take a couple extra steps more than making 6.5 out of 7mm cases and buying already made cases is that much simpler...plus the extra cost of custom dies for the 6.5x444.

PoiSSons ratio...and I think the brass IS a structural support as most brass is rated at about 68KPSI before deformation...besides most of that esoteric stuff gets way outside normal shooter knowledge.

Luck on your projects

bajabill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:52:04 AM »

even at yield of ~60000 psi, due to the small amount of square inches, the case goes plastic real quickly, even at low pressure loading. Check out VarmintAl website. He found a big player on predicted bolt thrust was friction between the brass and barrel.

But for HR mechanism, I think the concern is the forward load on the barrel, not the rearward force on the flat face of the receiver.

tykempster · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:30:04 AM »

If you're looking for top velocities it would be wiser to go with a larger case and load it to lower pressures. This would be the perfect time for a wildcat...did someone say 6.5-120?

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:41:30 AM »

Quote from: tykempster on March 05, 2009, 02:30:04 AM

If you're looking for top velocities it would be wiser to go with a larger case and load it to lower pressures. This would be the perfect time for a wildcat...did someone say 6.5-120?

Now that is one wildcat I wouldnt mind seeing.... :

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2009, 08:54:33 AM »

What about necking down 450 marlin to 6.5 and make a 264 Win mag special.
I am suprised that Marlin did not neck the 450 to 416, 358, 348, 338 and 308. with round nose to make other rounds for the 95 action.
Heck make some for 7mm and 270 but limit them to a two shot version. One chamber one mag.

tykempster · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:37:30 PM »

Ask and ye shall recieve.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2009, 03:51:57 PM »

A 338 Win mag FL die>300Win mag FL die> 264 Win mag FL die(which I don't have) would get you there, this is a .30-120 w/180gr Accubond next to a 338 Win Mag.

Tim

tykempster · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:03:35 PM »

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH QUICK! You ruined a piece of brass!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:06:20 PM »

No I didn't, there's a goober on the other side, looks like something got on it and corroded it bad enough that I don't want to shoot it again.

Tim

tykempster · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2009, 05:14:54 PM »

Don't scare me like that! At least have a disclaimer!

FW Conch · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:07:11 PM »

6.5-284 fits into current short, fat, efficiency. How does 6.5-120 fit into that ? $:-\$ Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:00:16 PM »

Long and fat!! The 45-120 is about the same size at the casehead. Anyone want to invest in a custom reamer!!

Tim

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

tykempster · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:25:41 PM »

204 Ruger ain't short and fat and it's still popular...