Author Topic: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO  (Read 2602 times)

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Offline markp

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357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« on: March 02, 2009, 04:15:38 PM »
  I used to shoot revolvers a bunch.  I have a good supply of black hills 38 special with lead swc 158 grain
  bullets from back in the day. This is factory reloads with mixed brass. Winchester, federal , super vel .
 I would like a nice .357 rifle that would cycle this ammo ok. I prefer one that is scopeable  so I can use it as a 357 and take a deer  later on .

My question is this. What .357 rifle will be likely to cycle this 38 ammo and 357 also without trouble.
It should be reasonble accurate. But not any great need to be perfect.  1 1/2 inch at 50 yards even would be ok for me.  It should be scopeable .    Will this ammo lead the barrel ? What velociy increase would i get ? I clocked this ammo from a  2 1/2 inch ruger at about  800 fps . The report I would think from a mild cartridge in a 16 or 18 OR 20 inch barrel should be mild ??  Any info will be appreatited.
Basicly I want a fun gun that will burn this ammo without jamming but also be suitable to take a deer with 357 ammo  at close range. I hope this is ok to post this question in this part of the form. Please forgive if not.

Thanks

Offline bilmac

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 06:28:19 PM »
Marlin 1894. Lovely little rifle that will do everything you want. Mine does hang occasionally with SWC bullets. Nothing serious they almost always chamber if you back the lever up and try again. No problems with bullets with a more rounded front end. Other Marlin owners say they don't have this problem.

Offline markp

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2009, 11:02:34 AM »
Thanks Bilmac. 
I'm hoping to track one down and have a look.  This seems to be a well thought of rifle.

Offline Lazarus Longshot

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2009, 03:50:20 PM »
I have been shooting a .357 1894 Marlin in Cowboy Action Shooting for over seven years. I shoot .38 special reloads (my own) in this rifle with no problem. Now having said that, Marlins can be very sensitive to ammo length when run at competition speeds. Our Marlins like the ammo to be loaded to 1.5 inches COL or longer (I actually load to 1.51" COL). At that length they function beautifully at competition speeds. .38 ammo that is "normal" length will sometimes cause a hiccup that manifests itself in a need to back off the lever slightly, then close it. This isn't a problem when plinking, target shooting, or even hunting, but it's frustrating as heck in competition where you are levering as fast as you can acquire a target.

Bullet shape can also cause a similar feeding issue (and a SWC is a particularly difficult bullet for a lever action to feed), but each rifle is different. Our three Marlins seem to be indifferent to bullet shape; as long as the ammo is 1.5" or longer they will feed it. I use RNFP in competition.

As far as feeding goes, though, any lever action rifle is sensitive to ammo length. The Winchester toggle-link design (original 1860 Henry, 1866 Winchester, and 1873 Winchesters, and their Italian clones) is somewhat less sensitive than the Marlin, but that is a relatively weak-design action. The Winchester 1892 (and current Brazilian and Italian clones) is a very strong action (actually stronger than the Marlin) that is even currently produced in .454 Casull and .480 Ruger chambered rifles, but it is as sensitive to ammo length as the Marlin. My .357 Chiappa '92 likes the same length ammo that our Marlins like: 1.51" RNFP. I've got a .454 Casull LSI '92 that I also shoot .45 Colt in, and I had to custom-tune the .45 Colt ammo length for it to function well. The Winchester 1894 is a strong action, but it was originally designed for rifle cartridges, and can have some weird feeding failures when the rifle design is modified to function with pistol cartridges. I have very little experience with the current Henry Big Boy rifle. I know some folks that have the rifle, and they either love it or call it a "jam-a-matic". From this I would hazard a guess that the Henry Big Boy is very sensitive to ammo length. All I can say for sure is that the Henry Big Boy is very rarely used in Cowboy Action Shooting.

All in all, I prefer the 1894 Marlin action, as it's as reliable as any (and better than most), very strong, and very easy to clean. Plus, since the Marlin is a side-eject, it is easy to put a scope on the rifle.

My ammo chrono's at around 750 fps out of my pistols (7 1/2" barrel), and around 900 fps out of my Marlin (24" barrel). It's not just the barrel length that increases the velocity, but also that the rifle doesn't have the "barrel-to-cylinder" gap that a revolver has. I would guess, since you have chronographed your ammo from a 2 1/2" revolver barrel, that you'll see a velocity of somewhat more than 1000 fps from a rifle. As far as leading, that should be no problem unless the bullets are very soft. I don't have a leading issue in the .454 until I get over 1200 fps with the .454 Casull rounds and hard-cast (non gas checked) bullets. At velocities over that I use gas checked, or jacketed, bullets.

I guess what all this boils down to is that, in my opinion, you'll be happiest with the Marlin!  ;D
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Offline markp

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 05:16:15 AM »
Lazarus Longshot  lots of good information in your post. I look forward to finding one before I start thinking about what else I should probally be spendng the money on.


Thanks !!

Offline PlacitasSlim

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2009, 09:28:53 AM »
If you have a Big 5 sporting goods nearby, they have great sales on Marlin 1894's

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2009, 06:21:23 PM »
My brother has a Marlin 1894.  It is a gorgeous firearm.  It will do everything you want.  It is a little pricey, but it is a great little lever gun.  You can't go wrong.

Offline Throckmorton

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 05:53:42 AM »
My angle-eject winchester will cycle rnfp .38's very well,have not tried it with swc style,and would not if given the choice simply because of the bullet shape.
hmmm
I think a buddy has some swc .38's loaded up,and I'm going to his place next week,I'll try some and see.
for competition and runing fast,the Marlin is the way to go,but if you find a angle-eject winny,they will sure do the job for ya.

'range test' next week.

Offline Throckmorton

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Re: 357 CARBINE WITH 38 SPECIAL AMMO
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 06:02:00 AM »
+1 for the AE winchester model 94 IF it's for casual plinking/hunting. i've used mine for cas,but it's a longer lever throw than most of us like for comp.
I"ve not tried swc's,but I think if you run the gun at 'normal' speed,they will feed ok,but only an actual test by you can prove it out.
The trigger on mine is HORRIBLY heavy,I suspect from what I"ve read they are all like that,but ya can get used to it,or have it tuned by a 'smith.I never actually noticed the heavy trigger until I scoped it and shot it from a bench one day. ugh !
BUT,after getting used to the trigger,which took about 47 rounds,I shot a nice group at 100 yards with it.



So, a a winny will do,but i'd buy a marlin the second time around.