Author Topic: 20 guage vs 12 guage (Read 1909 times)

Freezer · « **on:** February 23, 2009, 02:42:40 AM »

There are some slug hunting opertunities opening up and I'm considering a rifled slud barrel for my NEF. I'm not a fan of recoils and these light guns will kick. I'll be using this gun for pig. Is there a large difference beteen 12 and 20 guage slugs vs their recoil and is the 20 guage slug enough for pig?

.308 Win. · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:40:40 AM »

Let me first say that I live in Kentucky and we don't have to use slug guns and therefore I never have. However, I read an article just the other day by a well known writer from Illinois that said some slugs in a 20 gauge are ballistically equal to that of a .45/70 or thereabouts. I would think by anyone's judgment that a .45/70 is more than adequate on pigs. The gun he put together was a Remington 1100 (or 11-87)Youth model with a camouflage stock. He knocked the rear sight off the rifled slug barrel he bought and had a Leupold mount welded on for use of Leupold Quick Release rings so he could use a red dot type of optic while still hunting and then switched to a variable scope for shots that a little magnification would be of better use. He said he chose the Youth model because in deer season where he lives the weather dictates that you wear a lot of clothing and the shorter stock fits him better because of it.

IOWA DON · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:42:11 AM »

You asked if there is a lot of difference in the recoil of 20-ga and 12-ga slugs. I think there is a LOT! You mentioned a fully rifled barrel for an NEF. If you get a heavier barrel you will feel less recoil and it will be easier to shoot accurately if the gun is more barrel heavy. I think you will get less recoil from the best sabot slugs from Hornaday and Winchester than from the old full-diameter lead slugs which weigh more. I've killed 40 or so deer with my 20-ga slug gun using Hornaday SST slugs and the best Winchester sabot slugs. Most were does but I also got some bucks. The does generally did not run but 25 to 50 yards. A couple bucks ran about 100 yards but I hit them just a little farther back in the chest cavity than I should have. The ballistics are bassically a 250 or 260-grain .45-caliber slug at 1,800 or 1,900 fps. That's right in there with a .45-70 rifle or .454 Casul pistol. I never feel like I need a 12-ga and quite a few of the deer I got were over 150 yards. Now we have an antlerless season where rifles are allowed and I've shot a lot of deer with a .338-.378 Weatherby. Deer hit with the .338-.378 do not seem to go down much faster than those hit with the 20-ga slugs. In fact, I had one shead-antler buck run over 100 yards after a good hit, one doe run about 150 yards after a good hit, and one doe run about 200 yards after a good hit. These were all with the .338-.378. However, the ranges were between 435 and 475 yards, but these hits all produced large exit holes. I have only shot two feral hogs so don't know if they are any tuffer than Iowa deer. One was a 50-pounder and one was a full grown old boar. Both were shot with a 7MM STW. I think the small one dropped right away and the boar ran 10 or 15 yards and went down. In short, I think the good 20-ga slugs would probably be fine on hogs and the 20-ga slugs are a lot nicer to shoot, especially in a heavier gun.

pozoutdoors · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:12:01 PM »

I have to agee with IOWA DON!!! 12 gauge slugs are not much fun to shoot!!! It's what I have. I used to think bigger was better and if I was to do it all over again I would have stuck with the 20 gauge!! I mostly use muzzlers and handguns now!!! A 20 gauge will kill any hog you want. Just remember their lungs are further forward than in a deer!! Good luck and happy hunting!!!

Jal5 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:17:28 AM »

I'd vote for the 20 ga. too. After many years of 12 ga. slug hunting with a Mossberg pump, I switched to a NEF Pardner, 20 ga. a couple years ago and what a difference in recoil... the deer didn't know any different! That one is full choked so I just use the old style slugs but it is very accurate if I do my part. A rifled barrel should be really fine!

Freezer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2009, 09:22:43 AM »

Thanks guys, you have confirmed what I was thinking. I have an NEF handi rifle with a four different rfle barrels. Now it's time for a muzzel loader, 20 guage shotgun with screw-in-chokes and ventallted rib and 20 guage slug barrel. I'm building a case that will carry all my barrels and frame. One gun that does everything!

kansasj · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2009, 11:00:05 AM »

Buy good ammo and go for it!! Kill them hogs!

Freezer · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2009, 03:36:49 AM »

You can be I'm gona! This isn't my only firearm or shot gun. It's just a childhood dream. The reciever I have has been tuned and the trigger is great every barrel has been fitted and each will group as I would expect them to. I would rather do this with and Encore but it would get a lot more expensive. I have this dream of jumping in the old Dolphin motor home and going hunting for everything and only needing one gun in the tiny motor home.

eye shot · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2009, 05:10:53 AM »

IMO if your going hunting for every thing with one gun get a 12ga. and a Limbsaver recoil pad. If you hand load there are alot more options for a 12ga. When you go deer hunting with a pistol do you use a .22-9mm no but a .357mag.-.50cal. I have never shot a pig, but while in Germany run into some real wild boars I would have grabbed the biggest shot gun I could. A .50 MG stops them! One vote for .12ga.

Freezer · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2009, 05:45:44 AM »

Have you ever fired a 12 guage single shot with a 3" mag. I have it's not fun. I have a Win 37a that I haven't shot in 15 years for good reason. Even a 20 guage with 3" mags has a good recoil. Trust me you won't shoot two round of skeet with a lite single shot 20 guage. If a 20 guage slug is ballisticly similar to a 45/70 I see no reason to go bigger and punish myself.

shootercochran · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:26:54 AM »

20 guage is plenty! But for sake of finding more ammo I'd go with 12 guage.

A good tip is to fill the hole in the stock with lead shot. All you need to do is remove the butt plate and fill er up! Adds some weight and gives it less recoil.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2009, 08:48:05 AM »

I have used both 12 and 20 ga. and opther than the 20 is lighter to carry and kicks alot less can't for the life of me see any difference in killing power . The largest buck i shot with the 20 dropped dead with a hole thru. both sholders , deer was running at about 35 or so yards so i can't complain about shot placement .
Tarhunt.com is good reading on the subject of slugs . Don't pick a brand slug until you shoot some of each . when you find one you like buy as many as you can and keep them in the org. box in a dry place until you need them . I try not to carry alot of extras in the field . One other thing slug guns like to be clean , very clean .

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:57:55 PM »

Use your 20 ga smooth bore barrel with the cheap foster slugs and have a ball.A little practice ,with the slugs and anything out to 75 yds is bacon in the freezer. Trust me , A .62 calibre hole in anything will do the trick.

Freezer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:15:35 PM »

I taught my son to shoot shotgun with an NEF SB1. My first mistake was to start with a 410. The 410 is an experts gun. Then I switched to the 20 guage but the recoil was still a bit much. I filled the stock bolt hole with spent primers and lead shot but it didn't balance or handle as well. There's always a trade off

I'm so glad to here the consencous that the 20 guage will work fine! I'm not looking forward to the recoil but if it didn't perform as well as it does I think I would scratch the idea of slug hunting with a single shot.

Spanky · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2009, 11:27:57 PM »

20 gauge is all you need.
I have a 20 ga. Pardner cut down to 20" barrel and has a 4x Bushnell on it.
It'll put 3 Sluggers into a baseball sized group at 50 yds.

Spanky

kernman · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:10:10 PM »

Freezer,

I agree with the rest regarding the two gauges being equal overall.

However, I now regret that I bought a 20 guage barrel for my Topper instead of a 12, due to availability of ammo.

Where I live, I have been unable to find the much-cheaper remington sluggers, or brenneke's, which can be used in rifled barrels.

So I have a 20 gauge slug gun that I can't afford to shoot.

Yes, the 12 kicks harder, but bench shooting you can fix that with shoulder pads, and the like.

Maybe you already made your decision, its been awhile since your post, but if I had it to do over again I would go with the 12.

Couger · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:31:48 PM »

Quote from: Freezer link

There are some slug hunting opertunities opening up and I'm considering a rifled slud barrel for my NEF. I'm not a fan of recoils and these light guns will kick. I'll be using this gun for pig. Is there a large difference beteen 12 and 20 guage slugs vs their recoil and is the 20 guage slug enough for pig?

If you already have an NEF Handi-Rifle your original question is kinda moot!

Unless you're shooting an NEF 10 gauge, you do not have a receiver that NEF/H&R will allow you to buy a 12 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter barrel for - as those barrels are made from 10 gauge blanks and only fitted to those receivers.

20 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter bbls are no problem!

And whether a 20 gauge is like a .45/70 - what I look at is foot-pounds of energy generated by each round, then the weight of the bullet from each cartridge. Standard 20ga Slugger Remington slugs will compare better than the .30-30, while the Remingtion bonded Core-Lokt and premium copper slugs pack more FPE than the .45/70 and several cartridges in between.

But whatever 20 gauge you set up, or if you indeed decide to get and shoot and Ultra Slug barrel for your NEF - shoot what's accurate that you want to afford.

And don't wait too long sending off for that Ultra Slug barrel if you want it for this fall. Turnaround times from the NEF Barrel Accessory Program are uncertain, so you might want to send your receiver to NEF the sooner the better.

BTW I have a Handi-Rifle and they're a great gun for the money.

Couger · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2009, 02:40:43 PM »

Quote from: kernman

Freezer,

I agree with the rest regarding the two gauges being equal overall.

However, I now regret that I bought a 20 guage barrel for my Topper instead of a 12, due to availability of ammo.

Where I live, I have been unable to find the much-cheaper remington sluggers, or brenneke's, which can be used in rifled barrels.

So I have a 20 gauge slug gun that I can't afford to shoot.

Yes, the 12 kicks harder, but bench shooting you can fix that with shoulder pads, and the like.

Maybe you already made your decision, its been awhile since your post, but if I had it to do over again I would go with the 12.

What about buying your ammo from an online store like MidwayUSA? I'm going to be shooting two deer this fall/winter with a 20ga, and MidwayUSA carries at least 8 Remington 20ga slug loads, 2 Federal 20ga loads and at least 2 Winchester 20ga slugs.

Several loads are listed at less than $5 /5-rd box, and some are more than 3X as much.

kernman · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:31:17 AM »

Couger,

Don't forget shipping costs. Midway charged me $12.69 in "Postage, handling and insurance" for 2 boxes of Remington 20 gauge copper solids, for a total of $41.27.

I'm not knocking Midway - they have to make a profit. But still. So I continue to search with no luck for cheap slugs for my rifled Tracker II barrel.

Freezer, if you haven't decided yet, have you considered a 20 gauge smoothbore? Foster style slugs are relatively easy to find, and they are farily cheap. I got one and its a blast. But it needs a scope or a peep sight, the bead doesn't quite cut it.

Couger · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2009, 07:29:11 AM »

Thanks for the post Kernman. I have a 20ga youth syn. combo in the M870 , with fully rifled barrel. I'm going to test 4 different Foster slugs before resorting to the 20ga BuckHammer is necessary.

Comments on the Midway site claimed the BuckHammer is giving complete pass-throughs, which I have no reason to doubt. Those rounds are $6.99/5ea for 2 3/4inchers, 7.99 for 3inchers and $8.99 for five managed recoil rounds. Your copper solids are twice that much. Hope you bag a wall haggin' 10pointer!

kernman · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2009, 02:55:01 AM »

Couger,

I specifically wanted Remington sluggers, or Brenneke TKOs because everyone seems to agree they don't lead the barrel as much. If the Buckhammer can say the same, then I would definitely put them on my list.

I am basically too lazy to spend my time scubbing lead out of the barrel. But that's just me.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2009, 03:10:30 AM »

you will be shooting foster slugs in a rifled bbl ?

Couger · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2009, 05:35:32 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL

You will be shooting foster slugs in a rifled bbl?

Why would that be a problem if they work? Only two things concern me about the Remington Sluggers, and Winchester or Federal equivalents is that they're accurate and don't lead my bore more than normal.

Sluggers and the other commercial Fosters have riflling groove molded into them - where the BuckHammers are completly smooth without any grooves!

What it amounts to is that if the Sluggers have their grooves going the right way in sinc with the barrel's rifling, why shouldn't they be accurate? But of course if they go opposite the barrel's rifling I expect that wouldn't be so good.

Either way they need to be tested and the sights or optic sighted-in.

Also the Lyman molds for casting Foster 12 or 20 gauge slugs casts smooth slugs too, which I'd think is an advantage with those projectiles. Presently I cannot cast shotgun slugs, so trying the commercial loadings is the next best choice.

Where I live a 100yds shot is long, but if one lived in a state with broken woods and growth and brush I suppose a more expensive designer-slug might be called for.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2009, 06:02:18 AM »

The rifling on foster type slugs are not to spin the bullet they allow somewhere for the lead to upset to if they are shot thru. to tight a choke and there is little chance of that as they are under size .
The foster slug works much like a shuttlecock more than a bullet . Brenneke slugs are a perfect example .
I have found a mod choke in a smooth slug bbl shoots these best .
The rifled bbls i have/had all sem to shoot the sabot best . Most any slug shot from a rifled bbl will stay in the kill zone of a deer out to 50 yards but move out to 75-125 and things change real quick . The sabot slug picks up spin from the rifling and is stablized ( some slugs more than others and the same for bbl's ). It would be hard for an undersized slug to take advantage of the rifling . The mod. 37 deer slayer was most likely the best smooth bore slug gun as with good foster type slugs it was good to a hundred yards ( some say federal slugs fit tighter ) . That gun was replaced with a rifled gun . If you want a big lead slug look at light fields 11/8 oz sabot slug . Red box . Will do every thing a foster slug will do and take advantage of the rifling . They are accurate to 100 yards in my savage 210 . They are priced more than foster slugs and less than the top end stuff .