Hornady FTX 45-70 loads

[Davemuzz]

FWIW, I loaded up some of these new rubber tipped bullets and took 'em to the range just to see how they would shoot\group and what my chronograph would think of 'em.

Well, first off, I do have the load information from Hornady that they have provided for loading up these new 325 grain bullets, but that data did not contain any loads using IMR-3031. Of course, my 6th edition Hornady load book contained information using 3031 for both the 300 grain and the 350 grain Hornady.....so there I was with this truck load of IMR-3031 powder, and no "factory" load information. So....I did a "Dave" calculation and worked up my own minimum.

I thought the minimum should be 48 grains, so I used 49 grains of IMR-3031 for my "test" loads. The Hornady load manual, 6th edition, shows the maximum charge of IMR-3031 for the 300 gr. HP of 56.9gr. And for the 350 gr. RN or FP Hornady, the maximum charge of IMR-3031 is 56.1 gr. So...it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that the maximum load for the 325 should be.....well, I'm not sure....maybe someone could guess?

My load of 49 grains averaged 1708fps. At 50 yards the target looked like this:



Now, I do have a barrel "fouling" shot in there as well...but for a peep sight from my Marlin 1895XLR, I'm liking what I see so far.

I need a few warmer days and I'll go out and see how it groups at 100 and 200 yards. And just maybe....if I feel really up to it....I may take a target to the 250 yard mark!

Dave

[efremtags]

What depth is the bullet seated to or your OAL.

[Davemuzz]

Well, here is the "deal" with the OAL. Hornady states that the OAL should be 2.590. However, they also state that the brass should be trimmed to a length of 2.040. Well, the SAMI spec calls for the 45-70 brass to be 2.105. That puts the Hornady brass at .065 (sixty five thousands) shorter than the SAMI spec.

I have read on other forums that reloaders who have attempted to reuse LEVEREVOLUTION brass have noticed it is shorter than "regular" 45-70 brass.

In any event, my first attempt to seat the bullet at Hornady's COAL proved to be interesting. What that did was put the end of the brass....and the "attempted crimp" above the crimp grove. This left the top of the brass exposed....kind of similar to a 45acp...and didn't help at all in cycling for my Marlin 1895XLR.

So, I then seated the bullet about thirty thousands longer than the Hornady stated max. This allowed the crimp to be in the bullet crimp grove and allowed the cartridge to cycle easily in my Marlin. I have always trimed my brass with a Lee cutter....which usually trims brass below the SAMI max....then I just use a neck sizing die so the brass won't get worked as hard and grow as much. That's why my brass length is about 30 thousands longer than the Hornady recommended max.

You may want to check your available free chamber space with either a Hornady measuring tool, or some other method to make sure the bullet isn't seated up against the lands when\if you have the COAL a bit longer than the recommended. (How was that for a disclaimer?)  You can have pressure spikes if the bullet is too close to the lands....prior to "take-off".

So...yeah....all of that long-winded stuff to tell you that the Hornady COL max is 2.590....and mine is 2.620. 'Cause my brass is longer than Hornady recommends.....and I'm not gonna cut it shorter.

Dave

[EsoxLucius]

Seems like a lot of work just to gain at most 30 feet of effective range.

[Davemuzz]

Yup. I think to "get your monies worth" from these bullets, you have to load 'em up to the max....and then be in a hunting situation where the extra energy of this bullet is going to "payoff". So, for me hunting whitetail here in Pa., these bullets don't change a thing. In fact, this 45-70 that I own is overkill for whitetail. But, the "fun" factor of shooting this gun can never be measured, and when a broadside shot from any whitetail is presented, there is no "long bloodtrail" that needs to be followed from a hit with this gun. In fact, the 2 doe that I shot, one went about 100 yards and fell over (Big doe she was, a good harvest!), and the other just dropped on the spot. Both taken with solid lead FP bullets.

When you compare the 325 FTX to the 300 FP, both shot at Hornady's published maximum, the differences are:

Range (yards)                                      50   100   200   300
325 Grain vs. 300 Grain Velocity diff      69   84   104   102
325 Grain vs. 300 Grain Energy diff      395   383   334   259
325 Grain vs. 300 Grain Trajectory diff     0     0   1.1   4.5

The 325 grain "numbers" above are the greater of the amounts over the 300 grain bullets.

The 325 grain maximum numbers are:

Range (yards)   Muzzle   50   100   200   300
Velocity (fps)   2150    1981   1820   1528   1285
Energy (ft.-lb.)   3336    2831   2390   1684   1192

So the significance of the pointy bullet (or the point  is) shooting the bullet that is 25 grains heavier, the polymer tip allows this heavier bullet to have a little bit more velocity.....and thus not "more" bullet drop usually associated with heavier bullets, AND it also has a significant increase (at 200 and 300 yards the energy increase is 30% or greater than the 300 grain bullet) in energy delivery!

That's why you would want to shoot it. That's why you would want to hunt with it. Not the whitetail deer here in Pa, but for large game such as moose and bear......yeah, this would be an option.

Dave   


Edit....I did run the numbers and compare them to the Hornady 350gr RN. The 325FTX beats the RN in velocity and energy delivery in numbers very close to the above. Check em for your self at Hornady.com's ballistic cal. site.

[efremtags]

I ran into the short brass issue with the over the counter ammo. I had just started loading for this caliber when I discovered my lee crimp was missing the brass. unfortunately that die only works with SAMI spec brass from as far as I can tell.

I like the factory ammo because for theprice, it is the best over the counter ammo available. Any comparable ammo is at least 50% more expensive.

I probably wont try this bullet for handloads until I get my gun modified to cycle longer ammo, otherwise the advantages are not worth the effort  as noted.

[Davemuzz]

efremtags,

I'm shooting my loads out of a Marlin 1895XLR 45-70. I am using RCBS dies (full length when necessary) neck sizing, bell, and seating die. The seating die does a great job with the crimp and I have never found it necessary to use a Lee FCD for my 45-70. It will crimp no matter what length I set my bullet\brass length at. (Within reason of course)

I don't know what rifle\hand-rifle you are shooting, or what dies you are using, but if you care to disclose this or discuss it further, please post and we can talk about it.

Dave

[efremtags]

thanks for the info.

I have a SS guide gun. I use all LEE dies. they set up easy, but have limited adjustment (crimp die only). seater die does not crimp.

I may buy another crimp die for using my old short hornady brass. I'm not keen on trimming my starline brass below 2.100".

[Davemuzz]

The RCBS seater\crimp die http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004420938 can be adjusted to crimp the brass by screwing the die into the press. Then you adjust the depth of the bullet with the screw (and lock it with the lock nut) on top of the die.

I hope I made that clear.

Dave

[Camp Cook]

I load from 300gr to 550gr bullets for my Marlin 1895GS my light loads are always some 300gr bullet which ever one I can get the best deal on, I also have a 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 that I load for top bullet weights I shoot in it are 430gr.

I'm thinking that these 325gr bullets with 50 - 52grs H322 should be a fun load/round for both rifles.

My favorite do everything bullet for my Marlin is a 350gr Swift A-Frame though.

[KAYR1]

I was in the same boat as the poster above with my .450 Marlin. lots of bullets, brass and powder, but no data. I found it on Hornady site.

It sure seemed like I had to trim a lot of length to get the proper trim length. Also, I had to seat the bullet just past the cannelure to get C.O.L.  I have jsut made a dummy so far, but would like to see if the rifle will handle a little more length.

Great to have access to these bullets finally!  Now if we can just get a hold of a canister powder that will match Hornady's proprietary poweders!

[cwall]

What seater plug did you use with these bullets?  Nothing I have will accomodate the pointed end.

Thanks,
CWALL

[quickdtoo]

The Hornady New Dimension seater die will, that's what I use. 

Tim

[cwall]

Thanks.  I went ahead and ordered a custom seater from RCBS.  Hope it works well.

CWALL

PS:  Any word on the .17 Fireball Handi Barrel?