Author Topic: handi: what is enough gun (Read 5333 times)

handipardner · « **on:** February 09, 2009, 06:23:56 AM »

What is enough gun in a handi for different types of north american game except grizzlies/brown bears?

TO CONTINUE SHOOTING A WEAPON THAT ACTIVELY HURTS YOU IS STUPID. Flinching is the least of it.
What is enough gun? The scandinavians routinely kill moose and bear with the 6.5x55. What is it about americans
that are always looking for the most powerful gun that they then shoot poorly or not at all. If american game has somehow evolved to withstand bullets please enlighten me. The reality is that many BIG GUN purchasers are really ignorant about guns and hunting. By the way magnaporting would improve the accuracy and recoil of most guns especially light handis and pardners.

petemi · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2009, 06:43:10 AM »

The .45-70 is good for anything in North America.

I'm 150 lbs. I manage recoil. I don't allow recoil to manage me.........and, I don't flinch or shoot poorly.

Pete

handipardner · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2009, 06:52:44 AM »

caliber and set up:synthetic or laminate, thumbhole, muzzle break?. Who has a pleasant to shoot handi for north american game? What is your set up?

Bayou Stalker · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:01:53 AM »

3 deer kills this year, 1- 45/70 2 - .444 Marlin, I couldn't tell you if the gun kicked at all on any of them...

Default · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:06:28 AM »

308 30-06 280 rem 300 mag Those will handle Moose , American buffalo and anything below them ..

And Petes right a old 45-70 is no slouch either .. It the 35 whelen and 338 mag will handle anything in north america but of course come with recoil and for some thats more then their comfort level is willing to take on a regular basis .

Felt recoil is a personal thing .. But we all know that already.. Of course the mags are not in the handy line up but if they WERE Hint Hint Wink Wink Remington

Default

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:08:10 AM »

I am a big fan Of what I'd call a standard rifle, Blued with pistolgrip wood stock. My .357 by far is my most used rifle, It will take any game in the lower 48, HOWEVER, On larger critters like moose I think you would have to get really close and I hear a wounded moose will stomp you into a puddle. My second choice would be my .45-70 but with the loads I like to shoot out of it would be require you get close, ( I know a .45-70 will reach out there I just won't do it) So for everything type of round I'd prolly pick a .280 or .308 maybe the 7mm-08. They all give you plenty of usable range and bullet choices to get the job done. There are a bazillions opinion's on this, But I think the .284 and .308 rounds offer the best compromises of performance to recoil.

handipardner · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:10:30 AM »

it has to be in a handi and pleasant to shoot: caliber and set up

canon6 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:19:09 AM »

I have a very bad right shoulder and am very recoil senistive,that being said my ideal Handi would be a 6.5X55 Swed(rebore) 22inch barrel.4x fixed power scope,Limbsaver recoil pad, synthetic stocks, sling and buttstock ammo carrier.Weight should be around 7.5 to 7.75 pounds and a real pleasure to shoot. Just my 2c Doug

Westbound · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:21:26 AM »

A 45-70 could be loaded to handle anything in North America including the big bears. I personally wouldn't want to go ofter dangerous game with a single shot though.
If you are talking deer, black bear and up to moose or elk, I think it opens it up to more cartridges than we could fit in one discussion. Each size game will have its best cartridge (or 50 different cartridges, each with a following). I think the 30-06. 308 and 270 are probably the most popular. I've known guys that hunt small Texas whitetail with 300 Mags, and I've heard of people taking elk with .243.
It probably all boils down to picking a cartridge, selecting the right ammo, and placing the bullet where it counts.
The 30-06 has been the go-to caliber for longer than any of us have been alive. I can't argue with that at all

Westbound · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:24:36 AM »

Sorry, I just saw your qualifier for "pleasant to shoot".
I've never shot the 30-06 in a handi, so I can't speak to the recoil.
The 45-70 of mine is a pleasure to shoot with factory loads, but some of my loads are anything but pleasant

dep869 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:24:53 AM »

My vote is for the .308 IF you were exploring the possibility of all N. American big game excluding the big bears. If you were hunting mule deer and smaller animals then the 7mm-08 is my choice. Of course there are tons of calibres out there that will suffice. I have hunted most of my life with the .270 and it is great, although, on occasion I have mangled a mule deer or two and lost some meat as a result. I have switched to the .308 and 7mm-08 for deer sized critters.

Manion

handipardner · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:28:30 AM »

most of us dont think about making a gun pleasant to shoot but we should. For some a handi in a 30-06 in a pallet stock is not pleasant to shoot especially off a bench. How can we make a handi be enough gun and pleasant to shoot?

petemi · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:35:21 AM »

I put a synthetic stock set on my '06, put 36 ounces of shot in a sock, put it in the butt stock and it shoots like a BB gun. I did the same to my .45-70. They sling and balance better and are a pleasure to shoot in any position.

Pete

Default · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:37:19 AM »

Well pleasent to you and pleasent to me are two very different things Pardner..

I killed my first buffalo with a 308 , But wasnt in the handi platform .. So with out saying i have faith in the 308 ... Now i noticed the comment on the scandinavians using the 6.5x55 swede for moose... What does the Swede round recoil like ?? I havent shot one .. But what i like to take with me every time i gear up is " Every bullet can kill , Just how fast do I want it to die" that is the same line of thinking i take with me when personal defense weapons are concerned and knowledge and experience are paramount in caliber selection .. I would consider a 243 handi a joy to shoot , my nephew would disagree and it was bought for him ! Would i take it to topple a moose ? Wouldnt be my first choice .. Can a 243 drop a moose ?? I have no doubt that it can , But it becomes a proper shot placement and bullet construction question .. Now i do know an old boy that his family has land in colorado and every year they go uncles, dads, cousins and grandfathers /mothers are present and we were talking about caliber selection for hunting elk on this annual outting .. He said well i have been using a 243 to drop elk since i was a boy , using my grandfathers hand loads . So it can be done ..

  Personally i would use a 243 for pretty much anything smaller then moose and elk in north america.. Great round, lots of options and a truely flat shooting round with mild recoil..

  For moose and elk i would definantly bump up to a .270 or .284 caliber though a 30 cal would be my preffered for said animals

   Hope that helps a little ,

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Badnews Bob · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:37:33 AM »

Lead in the stock, better recoil pad, and mercury recoil reducers just to name a few. Lot of home brewed stuff in handieland.

Mad Dog · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:38:47 AM »

I'd bet if you asked my son, he'd say a .30-06 would handle most things in N America AND Africa

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,148194.msg1098612687.html#msg1098612687

Black bear taken in Idaho, Sept. 2006. H&R Ultra, .30-06.

Mad Dog

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:24:13 AM »

7mm-08 is an excellant choice for want you want. Yes, people kill Elk with 243s, but they live here and can take the time to get close and place the bullet where needed. Not worried about having to take a shot that is not perfect. DP

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:19:26 AM »

As the man said, it all depends on what a person feels comfortable with. I feel recoil in my Handi .30-06 is not excessive, probably due to the heavy barrel. Over the years I have had a number of rifles in that caliber, and I find the handi with pallet wood stocks, peep sight (no scope) is the pleasantest to shoot of them all. I sent hundreds of hand loads down range from a bench with this rifle. I have also had the Thompson-Center TCR rifles in .30-06, twice and sold them both because they were too painful to shoot.

That said, a well-placed .30-30 bullet will handle anything short of the big bears. If you hand load you can make pussycat ammo for small game up to 180 grain for big.

-WH-

Oldshooter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:33:47 AM »

In my humble opinion "we" depend too much on ballistics instead of good marksmanship. In this time of economic stress and the necessity of being frugal. It is not always neccessary to throw the biggest piece of lead down range when less will do the trick. I see people showing up at hunting clubs with all sorts of "magnums" and various artillery to kill White tail deer! One of my favorite quotes is " I got this here 243 for ma old lady to hunt with cause she dont like a big rifle" This same fella shoots a 300 win mag with a big variable scope and still chases blood trails into the brush looking for crippled animals. If the 243 kills for the old lady it should be plenty for the great white hunter! Daniel Boone would be disappointed in what we need to kill north American game!

My point of course is that there is no need to use a sledge hammer to kill piss ants. A well placed shot by a practiced marksman is all that is needed. Sure a big bore rifle will certainly kill quick, but only if you can hit where you aim it, and it will make up for some bad or missing hunting skills, but you owe it to your game to improve the skills and shoot better.

Airsporter · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2009, 12:29:04 PM »

It's all about bullet weight and powder charge.

If you handload, you can tame any centerfire caliber and tailor your loads. Most big game cartridges can easily be loaded down to about 7.62x39 level with light jacketed bullets and Hodgdon 4895 powder at 60% of a max charge. Basically duplicates the Remington 'reduced recoil' loads.

I currently use these loads in 30-06 and 7.62x54R for practice and plinking, then switch to full power for actual hunting. Although even the 'reduced power' loads would be adequate for deer size game to 200yds or so.

If not handloading, I would recommend a 7mm-08, and install a decent recoil pad and better sights. This caliber is close to the old 7x57mm Mauser. A pleasant cartridge to shoot. The 7x57 has probably taken everything that walks on this planet - including elephants.

Actual rifle configuation is based upon personal likes and dislikes, trade-offs, blondes, brunettes, etc. So I won't go there - haha

handipardner · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:16:29 PM »

Thanks for the great input.
Leaving caliber and reloading aside for the moment to make gun experience more pleasant
I would
1) add some weight to the gun I prefer a bull barrel. I like them barrel heavy: probably more accurate
2) also try a laminate thumbhole buttstock has weight and better gun control
3) definitely a good pad
4) forend possibly the synthetic with storage the survivor version
5) a scope would add some weight
6) next would be magnaporting

Do you guys have any experience with handis and porting or muzzlebreaks? Any opinions on synthetic stocks?

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2009, 06:59:56 PM »

Indeed the 7mm Mauser has taken elephants. It was used by the famous ivory hunter, W.D.M. Bell. He also shot with surgical precision. That's something sadly lacking today. A friend of mine is a range officer at a nearby range and he has tons of stories of people who think that if they can just get "on the paper somewhere" it's good enough.

In N. America I'd say the old .30-30 has been responsible for a lot of game taken for a lot of years. Maybe even more than any other caliber, but that might be a stretch considering all the buff taken many moons ago.

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:23:02 AM »

If I recall correctly, those elephants were taken with brainshots using military FMJ bullets.

ironglow · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:27:17 AM »

I believe the trusty old 30/30 will handle most everything in the adjacent 48...but if you want an extra edge .308 will do the job..

petemi · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:36:57 AM »

Yeah, the .308 does the job past 300 yards.

Pete

walkingwolf · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:16:23 AM »

I'll take the 375 H&H, if you hand load it will take anything in the world. The recoil is less than a 45-70 a little more than a 30-06. If I only had 2 guns I would take a 243 and 375 H&H.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:58:13 AM »

.308 and 30-06 are both good go anywhere shoot anything cartrdges. The .308 has a little of an edge toward lower recoil. That said, I think a handi with a few barrels is a better set up than one round for all occasions. I would say the .243 is a good light recoil round for anything up to and including whitetails. Maybe a .308 if you hunt someplace where you may want more distance. My current favorite for deer hunting is .44mag because it's suited to the short distances I hunt, but a 243 is more versitile and that's the nature of this thread. Then a heavy round like a .444 or 45-70 that can knock down a bear. Add in a .410 shotgun barrel, or a .22 for small game and you have it all covered.

petemi · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:17:46 AM »

JL, you hit the nail on the head. The only thing is, you've set up a perfect formula for HandiHolicism. Yeah, get those barrels, now get frames, then get stocks, then get scopes, parts, sights, slings.....all kindsa good stuff. Then get complete guns, more frames, more stocks, etc. etc. etc.......

If you're not totally ill now, you will be soon. AND, I'm glad to say, I don't think there's a cure.

Sicko Pete

TopperT · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2009, 09:36:04 AM »

I just had to jump in from the BC/TC shooters area........ BUT since you asked!!!!!

"gimme that old time religion

, gimme that old time religion

, it was good enough for me!"

.........

Given 'self-imposed' distance limits in the name of good sportsmanship and sound shooting skill, its MHO that a lot of the "fun" (for lack of a better word) of shooting and hunting is re placating the past. Sort of a profession of the old skills.......just MHO. But if asked what I would take on such hunts......well sir, either my 45-70 Shikari or a Buffalo Classic with 70 grans FF Swiss and a 405 gr. RNFP.

eod20 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:19:42 AM »

i would have to agree with JL as that is the direction i went. start with 1 complete rifle in a do most things cal and then get more barrels to cover other options and better fill specific hunting needs. i would have to respectfully disagree on some of the cal choices JL makes not on grounds that he is wrong - far from it i think he is right on just personal preference and differant hunting style.

you have to have a .22 lr or 22 mag and a shot gun 20ga is my choice
then a light barrel 243 or bob (257) my choice
then the do all 30-30/ 308 / 270 or '06 have the 270 still looking for the 30-30
a light heavy 35 rem all day
and the daddy 45-70
and some just fun barrels 58 then a 50 ML a rifled 20 ga and then you are off and running with everything covered i keep the cut down 18.5 in 20 ga and a good selection of differant loads in the truck