Author Topic: 45/70 or 45LC (Read 1610 times)

Randal45 · « **on:** January 27, 2009, 05:21:01 AM »

Hi, this is my first post after lurking for a while.

Most of my deer hunting is done by walking around the brush. My scoped 308 bolt gets a little heavy and tends to get banged up against the branches. I am on a mission to find a light open-sight <100yd deer rifle. I've narrowed it down to either the 45/70 or 45LC carbine. I am not sure which to choose. Here are my deciding factors:

1. I currently reload for my dad's 45LC Taurus Judge.
- this means that I dont have to buy anymore reloading equiptment.
- I have an ample supply of 45LC brass.

2. I reload and shot apprx 200 rounds of 45ACP per week.
- I can use my 45ACP bullets for low cost 45LC carbine plinking.
- I can use my stock of large pistol primers for the 45LC

3. I want open-sights.
- this keeps things simple and low cost.
- I hate worrying about banging my 308 scope against anything.

4. The 45LC carbine is about $130 more expensive than the 45/70
- That $130 could be used to buy the 45/70 dies though...
- I really dont like messing with lubing the cases when sizing.

5. My local indoor range does allow 45LC rifles but not 45/70.
- Which means that I can shoot the carbine alot more than the 45/70
- It is only a 25yd indoor range.

6. The 45/70, when a deer is shot, WILL go down.
- I am not confident about about how effective a 45LC is on a deer.

7. I do have eventual plans to start casting my own bullets.
- If I cast 45/70 bullets then my costs go down.
- After buying the 45/70 dies maybe I'll have enough left of the $130 delta to buy casting equiptment?

Ok, those are all the things that go into the decision.

Any thoughts on which way to go?

oh, how difficult is it to add front and rear sights to the Handi models that do not come with these from the factory?

Thanks for any help!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:06:14 AM »

in YOUR case the 45 lc makes a lot of since
but the 45-70 is a must have

the cost should be the same...unless one is a BC or something

under 100 yards hot 45lc should do fine
better if you have been practicing more with the 45lc over 45-70
also you will need a ruger black hawk to go with it

but the bottom line is you really need both
and a bet many here will tell you the same thing

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:07:03 AM »

The 130 saved would but a set of lee dies and a mold. Then all you absalutlly have to have is a ladel a cast iron or steel pot and some heat. I am a big fan of the big ole girl. However. The .45 colt out of a rifle is a very good deer round, You can load them a lot hooter than for most pistols, well into .44 magnum range. I think you would still get your best performance with heavy cast bullets, So casting may still be a good option in your future.

I recommend th .45-70 but do not think you'd be shorting yourself with the .45 carbine.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:08:19 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on January 27, 2009, 06:06:14 AM

the cost should be the same...unless one is a BC or something

The .45 carbine comes on the BC frame with the same stock set, So yeah it cost more.

You could buy a .308 and have a .45 colt barrel fitted. You'd have long and short range covered that way with rounds you already have.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:10:50 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on January 27, 2009, 06:08:19 AM

Quote from: 45-70.gov on January 27, 2009, 06:06:14 AM

the cost should be the same...unless one is a BC or something

they make a 45lc buffalo classic that is 20 inch barrel cost about $130 more same as a BC 45-70 32 inch

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:18:52 AM »

If cost is a consideration, I'd get the 45-70 Handi first, then send it in for a $120 45LC accessory barrel.

That is unless you just have to have the BC stock set. The 20" 45LC is good for 250gr jacketed at over 1900fps using Ruger/TC data.

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:37:03 AM »

WELCOME!!! Glad you finally posted, now let the friendships begin!!!

I was going to say the 45Colt will fit you fine. And it will. But Tim makes an excellent point. You get BOTH for the cost of the one 45 carbine!!!

We all know the 45-70 is an excellent choice and one most here would choose. BUT, the ballistics of a hot loaded 45Colt are right there with factory 45-70 ballistics. I have personally shot about a dozen deer with the Long Colt in a carbine and can assure you of its ability to keep the larder stocked full.
But realize, this is based on hot handloads. The factory loads will also work but the range needs to be severely limited. These hot loads are all in manuals from most every bullet manufacturer. So we are not suggesting some voodoo loads here. But a 250 - 300 gr bullet from 1500 - almost 2000fps is entirely and safely attainable. That steel butt may not be your best friend on the hotter loads, but it will not even be up to your 308's recoil levels.
Of what you posted the ability to shoot the 45Colt regularly is the biggest point. Practice it tantamount to good and accurate shooting. Just about everything you posted steers the conclusion to the 45Colt. It is a good choice and should not be considered a second choice based on your criteria. Either one will suit you well.

CW

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:05:11 AM »

It's hard NOT to want one of the 45LC's.
IMHO they are the best looking of the Handi's.

Spanky

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2009, 01:35:53 PM »

Hey, welcome aboard. As you touched on, you hate to lube cases, don't have to with the 45 colt and carbide dies. The 45 is pretty awesome out of the rifle barrel when loaded up. Tim and CW are right about that. Have dropped a few mule deer with the 45, and it does a very good job

. I've got both and shoot the pistol calibers alot compared to rifle rounds for the reason of easier to load. I'm all into conserving energy

, and not lubing and then cleanig the lube off is conserving that energy. DP

xhare · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:42:26 PM »

Randal45,

You have done your homework laying out your logic and reasoning. This is something I do almost non-stop when I daydream about what gun I would like to have next and why (especially since finances and the wife dont let it actually happen that often). Further, the highly informed and friendly community here at Graybeardoutdoors has given you very reasoned advice. But logic only gets you so far, expecially since you seem to have come to a logical draw!

I would suggest that you put logic aside for a moment and look at your gut. Which one do you really want? Which one gets you excited? Dont worry about why you want it or whether your desire is reasonable or not, just listen to your gut. We often get caught up in the reason for owning a gun.."I need it for this or that". Sometimes the only reason you need is "I just want it". Sometimes we don't need a reason at all.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:53:11 PM »

xhare

that kind of logic is why i need another safe

Blackhawker · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2009, 06:34:51 PM »

Hi Randal,
My comment isn't really directed toward assisting you with a decision on which rifle to buy. I think Tim has the best idea, as you can have both for the price of one. I'd only like to comment on your point number 4.

You mentioned not wanting to lube brass for the 45-70: I load both calibers and use carbide dies for my 45 Colt. Yes, I can resize the 45 Colts without lube but it does put wear and tear on the brass. If you don't like using lots of lube (nobody really does) then I recommend lubing every third or fourth case. It puts just enough lube in the die to sustain resizing without extra stess on the cases for a span of about two or three cycled cases. Try a little lube and you'll see how much easier it is to resize your cases and how much extra stress you've been putting on them without the lube.

Just to drive the point home, I've been loading the same bunch of 1200 or so cases for over 15 years and I don't see any signs of extreme thinning or fatigue on them yet.....and I don't typically go easy on the loads. I'll admit to finding cracked cases now and then but overall they're still holding up very well.

....just a little advice or assistance if you'd like to take it.

Good luck with your decision, I know you'll like...LOVE either rifle you choose.

xhare · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2009, 02:44:39 AM »

45-70.gov

Glad I could be of assistance.
xhare

Randal45 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2009, 04:58:20 AM »

Thanks everyone for the information. I just got off of the phone with H&R to confirm the 45LC conversion process. The one question that I wanted answered was if the new 22" 45LC barrel was fitted with open sights. It was. They also confirmed the 6-8 week lead time for the fitting. Ok, so after reading all of the posts it looks like I am leaning towards the synthetic 45/70 and planning on the 45LC conversion. That should put me right around the price of the BC in 45LC.

thanks again!

Randal45

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:37:48 AM »

The 45LC accessory barrel is 20", not 22", that's a typo on the accessory barrel list, it's the same barrel that comes on the CR-45LC Carbine. Also be aware that they won't fit the 45LC barrel to any frame made before 1999(another typo) just in case you find a good deal on a used 45-70 Handi, build year info can be found in the FAQs and Help sticky.

Tim

Randal45 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:44:17 AM »

hmmm...that is strange. I specifically asked the H&R customer representative if it indeed was 22" and not 20". She confirmed that it was 22" It did seem a bit strange that they'd stock two different length barrels. I'll have to call them up again.

Thanks!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2009, 06:11:14 AM »

They have problems with a lot of things like this, it's not unusual to get incorrect answers from them, the H&R line is new to Madison customer service, they're still learning. She's probably looking at the same source as we see, either the website or the accessory barrel pamphlet, but it's listed on their own parts list, which I have a copy of, as 20" which she apparently didn't look at. I have a 45LC accessory barrel, it's 20" long, I assure you.

Tim

deadrabbit · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2009, 12:48:19 PM »

And if you get ahead money wise sometime, about $100, add the stock set that comes with the 45LC carbine. (the 45 LC carbine forearm is shorter than the BC 45-70 forearm) Its a looker and will work and look great with your 45-70 too.

Default · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2009, 02:22:35 PM »

My choice would have leaned to the 45 lc ... looks great .. Can easily achive 44 mag velocities with proper reloading and handle what you want to do out to 100/125 yards

Default

Randal45 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:29:37 PM »

Here is my update. I got the 45/70 and love it. I've only shot two loads through it:

230gn LRN 0.452 paper patched to 0.458 with 60.0gns of H4895

300gn JHP Rem bulk pack 50.0gns H4895

Both are minute-of-deer

Here is the result of a 300gn'r against a corn-feed Kansas deer.

Mine is on the far right.

BTW, this is my first ever deer.

Thanks for your help guys!

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:36:39 PM »

Now that you've made the right decision and got a 45-70, the next logical step is a revolver in 45LC. At ranges encountered in the brush, the LC would make a terrific traveling companion when you're carrying the rifle. IMO, the best revolver load in existence erupts from a 45LC single-action. I recommend a plain blued Ruger Blackhawk.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:40:22 PM »

GOOD JOB!!!

Glad it all worked out and you have a good shooting rifle!!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:57:12 PM »

Congrats, way to go!!

Tim

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:58:02 PM »

Looks like ya gotter done! Congrats on the Handi and the deer. Now the hard question, can ya be without the 45-70 long enough to send the frame back to get the 45 barrel? $:-\$

DP

Datil · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2009, 03:37:26 PM »

Looks like good eating hanging there. Congrats
Datil

shvlhead.45 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2009, 04:49:22 PM »

+1 What Mike in VA said.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 07, 2009, 02:50:25 AM »

Get the .45 barrel when you get a chance, you won't be sorry.

Lazermule · « **Reply #27 on:** December 07, 2009, 12:51:27 PM »

Congrats....

That deer on the far left looks like it is part horse! What did it weigh???

LM

Randal45 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 07, 2009, 02:33:00 PM »

The property that I hunted on belongs to my brother. He leases it out to the farmer next door. It is kind of a interesting story. I shot the deer at about 25yards as he was coming out of a small wooded area filled with walnut trees. He ran about 50yds and then I heard a crash. I found him and he was already dead. I tried dragging him out to the corn field and found that that was too much work! I stared at him and thought "ok, now what do I do?" So I walked back to the farm road to get the truck. I was going to get my brother who was hunting the other field to help me with the deer processing. He knew what he was doing but I've never gone hunting before.

The farmer and all of his buddies were in a truck coming down the road. I flagged them over and I said "I am a complete beginner, I shot a deer, and I dont have a clue what to do next" Well, you should have heard the laughter from those farmers! Boy, did they give me the business! They had me hop into their truck and I took them over to my deer. They were really helpful. They showed me how to clean the deer and what to do. The farmer ended up bringing it over to his farm shop and hung it together with all of their other deer. That is where the photo was taken from. His shop was full of trophy antlers on the wall. They really knew what they were doing. He offered to butcher and package it for me as well. I dont know the numbers on the other deer but they were definitely larger than mine.

It turned out to be a great first hunt. I am really grateful to the farmer and his hunting buddies for showing me how to do everything.

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #29 on:** December 07, 2009, 03:58:03 PM »

Gotta love us Kansas boys.Nice story and deer.Slow