Author Topic: .30/.30 on a .410 (Read 1165 times)

kf4ocv · « **on:** January 08, 2009, 02:02:20 PM »

I have read the faq page and got to wondering about something. In 1971 my dad purchased a .30/.30 acessary barrel new and purchased a .410 complete gun. Back then you did not have to send in the receiver just a check or Money Order. I don't think the handi rifle existed at the time. Anyway it was traded to my Grandad, then at his death went back to my dad, and recently to me. When I got it, it still had the original box of shells with it. I have shot the rest of that box plus another box in it. I have had trouble sighting in a scope on it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2009, 02:34:29 PM »

I don't think the original H&R sold over the counter barrels, they've always required them to be fitted at the factory. From what I've seen of the defunct barrel tolerances, they could never get away with that!! I would question whether or not the frame was meant to have a 30-30 barrel on it. I'm sure not all of their frames were made for centerfire barrels, and it may be improperly fitted if it wasn't fitted at the factory. It may also be worn from the hinge not being properly lubricated, removed the forend and see if the barrel is loose on the frame.

Tim

kf4ocv · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:30:33 PM »

My Dad purchased the accessary barrel before the .410. When I got it, it still had the original box of shells with it. I have shot the rest of that box plus another box in it. That is all that has been shot in this gun. the .410 barrel has probably only been used about that much as well. I did find that the scope rail was a little loose. After taking back the scope I took a screw driver to the scope rail and gave it a 1/4 turn on at least one screw. From what I have read here H&R only had one frame until 1986 as the new company.

carbineman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:22:12 PM »

As an owner of this type of H&R, I would think you would be ok using the 30-30 or the .410 barrel. But suit yourself and consult a gunsmith to make sure.

There is a good chance your barrel was purchased from a combo unit where the 30-30 barrel was left over from a gun store. That was how my first 20 ga and 30-30 was set up. It came thru as a 20 ga. and then I purchased the 30-30 barrel left over from a combo gun when an employee of the gun store sold the 20 ga, and didn't include the 30-30 barrel. My resident spy at the gun store let me know and I purchased it the next day. My son grew up learning the ropes on that shotgun/rifle combo. Sadly it was stolen from us but we now have 3 such 30-30's in the topper style. They are great lightweight fast handling rifles.

Does yours have a snap on forend? The ones we own are newer versions and have the screw on forend.

kf4ocv · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2009, 06:28:59 PM »

Yes snap on forend. I believe my dad said he ordered the barrel. I will ask him to be sure. serial # on .410 begins AF. According to the faq page it was manufactured in 1969. My almost 15yr old daughter can't wait for it to be hers. I'm sorry to hear yours was stolen. I have a 20g 3" chamber traded a guy at the trade lot a savage .410 for it years ago. I love the 20 but I miss the savage it was old.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2009, 11:44:05 AM »

I could be wrong here but I do not believe the 30-30's were drilled and tapped for scope mounts back then. So there may be more to this story than just buying a bbl from the factory. Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2009, 11:46:24 AM »

That's why I stepped out of it, separating facts from memories isn't easy 40yrs later.

Tim

kf4ocv · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:15:41 PM »

Face, it you guys Don't know everything, I have got the gun and I know the story. I had hoped someone would have gave more knowledge about these guns, instead of trying to discredit my story. Sorry I ever got on here.

omcforever · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:36:38 PM »

That was,,,,,,,,,,,,,,interesting.

carbineman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:28:35 PM »

Quote from: kf4ocv on January 09, 2009, 05:15:41 PM

Face, it you guys Don't know everything, I have got the gun and I know the story. I had hoped someone would have gave more knowledge about these guns, instead of trying to discredit my story. Sorry I ever got on here.

I would agree that we don't know everything, and would agree further that we don't know your personal story. I had also hoped that someone could issue a concrete statement as to what you have there.

I don't think anyone tried to discredit your story, as I took it as trying to find out the unabridged history of the H&R 30-30/410 that you have. Sorry that you took this as a personal slam against you, as I am sure knowing these guys that it was not intended as such. I don't post here often but do read the board alot and know there was no disrespect intended.

As for being sorry you ever got on the website, that is something I personally don't understand. What are you sorry about? We all know life as such offers no guarantees. Take Care

carbineman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »

Another idea for you would be to post some pics and relate what ever marks or writing/ stamping exists on the rifle/shotgun.

tallyho · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:12:17 PM »

kf4ocy

I too did not sense that anybody was trying to discredit you, or your dad. All I read were responses by guys who were giving the best information they had about this type of gun. And having owned a couple of these myself, the first one in 1981 being a 30/30 20 gauge, and owning one now (without a shotgun barrel) I am interested in as much information as I can get about them.

The truth is there are so many possibilities with these rifles that nobody actually knows everything about them. The best information available (until your posting) was that there were no accessory barrels offered until the new company made them available. That is all it is... the best information available. And from what I read, that is all that was said.. it was believed that factory did not offer them. It is also possible (even likely) that your dad stumbled on a deal much like the one described by carbine man.

Bottom line however, no one knows for SURE how it unfolded. Whether it might have been a special deal by a gun shop, or something done unofficially by a factory smith, or... whatever! (Example: there is a fellow here who has a 22 Hornet bull barrel, that was never officially made by the factory, but he has one and has the photos to prove it... another story)

You have a gun and two barrels, that much is known. How it came to pass is actually unimportant, and you weren't asking questions about the operation of the gun itself, you only mentioned that you were having trouble sighting it in. If that is still a problem after tightening the screws, are you looking for assistance with that?

The one thing most folks here are pretty firm about is safety, and there have been some concerns and safety issues with using a centerfire rifle barrel on a shotgun frame, particularly the older ones. That is what I believe Quickdtoo's response to your posting was referring... having a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame that may not be suitable for it. If that is not of concern to you, then it is not.

I will be so bold as to suggest that if you truly are sorry about getting on here, it is quite simple to leave. On the other hand, there is no other place that I have found with such a huge pile of valuable information and support for these firearms and, rather than leave, I suggest you stay, participate in the group, and try to take things less personally. You will be welcomed and will receive honest and sincere support if you want it.

(*note: sometimes honest support, though valuable, can be challenging to receive.)

And like carbineman said, if you can, post some pics and markings please. They would not only be interesting for some of us, but might be helpful for you to get more info.

Cheers
Kerry

burntmuch · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2009, 02:52:39 AM »

Or just leave.

Hofs01 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:43:26 AM »

Please note: If it is a profiled receiver it requires a different type of scope rail than the others. This could be causing more troubles as well.

As for barrels being drilled and tapped.

ALL of my rifle barrels from that era have been drilled and tapped for a scope rail as well as equipped with a flip down sight to get out of the way of the scope.

Not positive just where they were drilled factory or gunsmith. I bought what was sold to me as a new unfired 158 topper in 30-30 that was drilled.

omcforever · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:18:14 AM »

Dont know why he would say he is sorry for coming to this site, This site has helpd me out tons and the members are the greatest...Just my 2 cents worth. But he is right in one respect, we do not have all the answers but someone out there does. Just have to have a little patience. Art

kf4ocv · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:11:59 PM »

First let me say I'm sorryto you all. I thought you were trying to make out like I was lying. I can't atand a liar, so I guess that's what got my hot button, once again I'm sorry I jumped the gun. Sometimes it is hard to disiphor what some is intending when you are not talking face to face, atleast it is for me. I do have some more info. I talked to Dad today and he said he did order the 30/30 barrel through the mail and did not send anything to the factory for fitting. It was ordered in 1971 and to his knowledge 30/30 was the only barrel offered at that time. The .410 shot gun was purchased at Western Auto here in our hometown after the barrel was ordered. The barrel came drilled and tapped for scope with scope rail and the rear sight folds down for the use of the scope. What is a profiled reciever? I haven't tried sighting since the screws were found loose. I took the scope back and got a refund for it, I decided to wait on the dealer to get a better scope in stock, got my eye on a swift (lifetime warranty exchange at counter no questions asked) $139.99 3-9X40 I took the forearm off just to see if it the barrel was tight and yes it was. Pictures: I will try to get pictures on here but will have to use someone elses computer. What exactly do you want to see? I noticed some people cover up part of their serial # is this neccessary?

tallyho · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:46:41 PM »

kf,
Glad you decided to stay.

And good on ya for "owning" your own stuff. This is a grrrreat place!!

Here's a pic that shows what my 30/30 Topper (profiled receiver - lower) looks like compared to what a modern receiver (above) looks like. Notice the "notchy" bit at the top, and that the modern receiver isn't the same.

Below: In this picture you can see how the barrel matches the profile of the receiver. And that, along with the tapered barrel, is one of the things I like about the Topper, the barrel and frame have a bit less metal and are therefore lighter. Mine with scope (not the one in the picture, that was temporary, as was the stock) weighs in at just under 6 lbs. (see my avatar to the left for what it looks like now with the mannlicher forend.)

And finally, below is another angle of the profiled Topper frame. Pic taken toward the firing pin/breech end with the barrel off and a hammer extension. ( have a different hammer on now)

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers
Kerry

xit · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2009, 01:32:48 AM »

Glad you're sticking around KF. That mannlicher forend looks really good. A big picture would be fun Kerry. Where did you find it? I think Tim had a picture of one. They look very sharp.

Pat

kf4ocv · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:01:34 PM »

Thanks Guys, I will look when I get home, working at the firehouse tonight. I did notice that my barrel isn't round at the breach it is profiled like your reciever. I thought that was kinda weird but, thought it was because it was a.410. will be in touch. I checked serial # on the gun & my 20G which I bought A few years ago and they both begin AF so now I want A 16 & a 12 158 Topper Serial begin AF. Maybe a hard find but , I 'm in no hurry. Later on. Chris

Hofs01 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2009, 02:12:09 AM »

Quote from: kf4ocv on January 11, 2009, 05:01:34 PM

so now I want A 16 & a 12 158 Topper

Unfortunately, They did not make anything bigger than a 20 ga in the Profiled barrel design.

The profiled design only includes,

.410 Ga.
20 Ga.
30-30
22 Jet

Somewhere I think there may be a 22 Hornet, However I have never seen one.
Brian

kf4ocv · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2009, 05:02:43 PM »

Ok, when I got home I Checked and The .410 is profiled and the 30/30 barrel is Profiled and so is the reciever. But unfortunately my 20G is not, but it is neat just to have serial #'s begining AF. (1969 according to Faq page) But I still want A 16G and 12G with AF. Are the profiled gun & barrels worth more? Are they Rare? One barrel says .410 Gauge P Full, the other says 30/30 Win. Other than the serial #'s & the name and address of the factory that's all the markings. I would like to find a new recoil pad for it, the one on it is really hard. The 30/30 barrel kicks like a mule as my papaw used to say. I guess it's too light, I read about some guys drilling out the stock and putting lead in them to lighten recoil but, I would rather not on this particular gun. Chris

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2009, 05:04:57 PM »

Woods stocks already have a hole in them for the stock bolt, see Mercury Recoil Reducer in the FAQs.

Tim

kf4ocv · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2009, 06:06:33 PM »