Author Topic: Need help reloading for my .223. (Read 1173 times)

Jones · « **on:** January 03, 2009, 06:49:33 PM »

I am using IMR 4198, Remington match primers(all they had),and 40grn Nosler bt B-tips. An O.V.L. of 2.240 (looking a Hodgdon this is to short!). Best groups are about 1". Now that I think about it it acts like seating. Two will touch but the rest are thrown. I got the O.L.V. from a Hornedy (spl?) factory 50grn. V-max.

Also have some IMR 3031. IMR 7848, and Reloader 19.

Think I will try to seat them longer.

Any help?

Thank you

GJ

Jones · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2009, 06:50:57 PM »

By the way this is a H&R U.V.F.

GJ

SM Bob · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:03:37 PM »

My 223 Handi did the same thing with 45 & 50 gr bullets. I had better results
with 55 gr bullets and BLC2. Also I use the Lee factory crimp die. It seems
to make the loads more consistent and it reduces the fliers.

Robert

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:41:17 PM »

I do not think you are going to even come close to touching the lands with 40 - 50 grain bullets. I would seat the bullets so that they get a good grip in the neck. Think about .2" or so of the bullet jacket in contact with the neck walls. The only way I could touch the lands were with Hornady 60 grain V-Max bullets. My Ultra Varmint is 1-12" twist and does not like the long 60 grain bullets very well. As far as powder There is a wide range of powders that will work with a 223. You have already tried a powder that is on the fast side - IMR 4198. IMR 3031 is some where in the middle of the burn rate for the 223. I think the other two you mentioned is a little too slow for the 223 application. Of the ones you listed, try the 3031. If you decide that that does not work so well you might even try some of the slower burning powders like BL C2, W748 or IMR 4895. You may get better results with heavier bullets too, especially if you are using the slower burning powders. I wish I could give a magic formula, but there is not one. I have 3 223 rifles. One shoots real good with VV N133, but my Handi UV just does not like it. One more thought - If you are getting two close where does the third one go? Is it always the third shot that goes astray? If you are vertically stringing the one shot out of three, it may be your lock up. This is one thing that you always have to be cognizant of when shooting a Handi rifle. If the "flier" is random around the other two, I would suspect load issues, but if it is vertical I would suspect lock up. When trying to figure out accuracy problems, there are so many issues. Good Luck and Good Shooting

Default · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:36:16 AM »

Jones,

Noslers reloading guide says that they got the best accuracy from their 40 gr with IMR 4198 using 21.0 grns out of a 24" 1 in 12 twist barrel COL 2.260 ..they also list the most accurate they used over all and that was Win W748 ..
Sierra lists the 40 gr bullet was most accurate using the IMR 4198 with 23.0 grns using a 24" 1 in 14 twist rate barrel COL 2.175 .

Speer was the only one that listed any data in six different manuals for the IMR 3031 but didnt list how it performed for them.. Reloader 19 is a good powder but only seems to have load data listed for heavier bullets then the 40 gr ones you are using ..

Hope this helps a little , Let us know how it works out for ya and safe shooting..

Default

GPR125 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:43:10 AM »

You didn't mentioned what the book velocity shows; I've loaded for several rifles in .223 caliber and each had variables, such as chamber dimensions, and with magazine fed versions, the OAL still had to feed through. With a single shot, OAL isn't as big a factor; the distance from the lands usually dictates potential accuracy; which the OAL allows you to keep consistant, when you have found the desirable distance. My experience has shown that pushing a 55 grain bullet to about 3100-3200 usually resulted in the most consistant and reliable load. I prefer Hornady SXP and they don't like much above 3300. But very little chance of ricochet; Nosler BT is perhaps a bit more accurate, but I've had a lot more bounce off a rock and take off, rather then stop right there. I've had good luck with Varget, W748 & 4064, but they might be a bit slow for the 40 grainers. The barrel twist is another thing, if yours is 1 in 9, the stubby bullets might not be the best choice. GoodLuck

mrbgt · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:05:17 AM »

try varget and h335 . my .223 seam to like them better

Jones · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2009, 08:34:34 AM »

This should be a pic of the best group I have shot. Can you read it?

#1 is the one on top of the two that are stacked, #2 is under it(very impressed),#3 is by the cross hairs, #4 is top.#5 is left of #2.

All clear?

Thank you

GJ

quatroclick · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:04:21 PM »

My 223 ultra likes a mild charge of Win 748 with the 50 gr. Barnes Varminator bullet. COL is 2.295. It will put about as many rounds as I care to shoot in a 1" group. Kind of boring in a way. My experience with this gun is to start with the published starting load or a bit under. Loads anywhere near max don't shoot well.

Jones · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:38:51 PM »

Loads anywhere near max don't shoot well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+1

GJ

Jones · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2009, 01:56:30 PM »

Now my p.o.i. is changing every time I go out, about 4"? Mounts are tight and scope is good.

Please help

GJ

cwlongshot · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2009, 02:02:43 PM »

Quote from: Jones on January 05, 2009, 01:56:30 PM

Mounts are tight and scope is good.

Mounts are tight.. but are they keeping the scope from moving? How are you so sure about the scope?

Do you have another KNOWN GOOD scope and rings you could try? While the scope is off, I would remount the base. Lap the base for perfect fit and apply good loc tite to the screws. WAIT 24 hrs and go shoot again. While your waiting, give the barrel a good cleaning and be SURE that the shelf is clean and dry, NO OIL!!.

Let us know what happens.

CW

Jones · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2009, 03:04:49 PM »

It was on my 243wssm. How do I lap the base?

GJ

Steve P · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2009, 03:21:22 PM »

I use a standard rule of thumb: never seat the base of a bullet deeper than the case neck, unless it will not chamber in the gun. The base of your BT should be level with base of the neck. The boat tail will be up within the neck area and you should have about half of the neck length holding a bearing surface of your bullet.

Seat those bullets out as much as possible while maintaining a reasonable neck tension.

Steve

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2009, 03:35:39 PM »

Quote from: Jones on January 05, 2009, 03:04:49 PM

It was on my 243wssm. How do I lap the base? GJ

Very fine wet dry sand paper wrapped around the barrel above the chamber. (Base removed

) Be sure paper remains perfectly smooth and 100% in contact with barrel at all times. Put the base on top of the abrasive paper (Above the chamber where it will be mounted) and slide forward and back slowly and smoothly. Do not rush, no need to move fast, the paper will cut rapidly. If the paper doesn't cut well, it can be cleaned out by rinsing in water. It will not take long, once the finish is uniformly removed from the bottom of the base, your done. As long as its a weaver or factory base, do not worry, about rust, its aluminium alloy. If this is a steel base, it will take a bit longer and you will want to coat the base with something to prevent rust. Clean and dry everything, be sure the screw holes are perfectly clean and dry, then remount base.
Now relax in the knowledge and piece of mind that your base is properly and securely mounted to the barrel. One thing, be sure too WAIT at @ least 24 HOURS before you shoot it. (48 is better!!! You want to be sure the loc-tite is setup properly so nothing moves.)

This is all covered in the FAQ's too!!

Also about those rings, be sure they are a good quality ring. I prefer the Leupold PRW or WARNE maxima or the Burris rings.

CW

Jones · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:00:51 PM »

Ok but were douse the loc-tite go saw some thing about on the hole rail or just on the bolts (guess its not a bolt)? Yes they are Leupold.

So I nead some wet dry. would emery cloth work? Why can i just throw them on the mill?

GJ

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:08:01 PM »

Loc-tite goes on the threads of the screws, just before you mount the base.

Emery cloth should work, but may be too abrasive and remove too much material too fast.

The base is almost exact as it stands. The use of a mill will not get your the precise fit to assure the base perfectly mates to the barrel. The idea is to perfectly fit the base to the barrel to eliminate all possibility of movement.

This whole thing is not doing a whole lot. Its part of the equation, not THE fix, just a piece in the cog so to speak. Have you read the FAQ's on mounting scopes, rings and bases? If not, you should. There is a wealth of information there.

CW

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2009, 04:15:18 AM »

I used 3031 in my UVF before I turned it into a 225win and it shot very well. 55gr Vmax 23gr 3031 2.262oal a little less than 3100fps. Kurt

Guy Pike · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2009, 04:28:02 AM »

My 20" barreled Utra Varmint works well with 40grn. NBT's over 26.2 grns. of BL{C}2. CCi small rifle primers. COL 2.3" These rifles seem to have a very long throat. The load easily shoots under an inch for five shot groups one right after the other. Barrel temp doesn't seem to be a factor. It would be neat to find some long for caliber bullets and try some more experiments with overall length.

Jones · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:29:10 PM »

Bump eah

GJ

Jones · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2009, 04:48:30 PM »

I got a little crazy with the sanding and stripped some of the bluing (or is it paint, please be paint)off. Only about 3" log by 1 1/2" wide. So do I re-blue it or paint it? How do I know that I have taken off enough from the base?

How can I free float the stock? I have a O-ring in but it is still touching?

Thank you

GJ

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2009, 02:00:08 AM »

Quote from: Jones on January 10, 2009, 04:48:30 PM

I got a little crazy with the sanding and stripped some of the bluing (or is it paint, please be paint)off. Only about 3" log by 1 1/2" wide. So do I re-blue it or paint it? How do I know that I have taken off enough from the base?

How can I free float the stock? I have a O-ring in but it is still touching?

Thank you

GJ

As long as we are talking about the base, and its weaver or factory. Its more likely anodizing. You don't NEED to do anything to it. If you want a black sharpie will touch it up nicely. BTW, you shouldn't be sanding on the barrel. I mean trying to remove material from the barrel, just the base. The idea is to fit the base to the barrel, not the barrel to the base.

You know the base is done when the original finish is uniformly gone. Any "bluing" left (On the base) will reflect a lo spot.

Add another "O" Ring. OR get a round dowel, wrap it with sand paper and have at it!!

I prefer a barrel channel tool, specifically made to open up barrel channels. But they are costly for the one time job.

Good luck,
CW

Jones · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2009, 01:34:06 PM »

The base is factory, I know it doesn't need any thing. There was just some thing that I didn't like on the BBL, so I took it off. So it's not paint? do I reblue?

Thank you for the help

GJ

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2009, 02:54:25 PM »

The barrel is steel and it is blues. So yes, it would be best to get some finish on there to help prevent rust.

If its a small spot and under the base anyway you'll get good results with some cold blue. I like Brownells 44-40.

CW

omcforever · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2009, 03:02:25 PM »

H335 and H4895 with 40 Grain Nosler BT and Speer 52 Grain HP (#1035) is a great combo/at least out of my 700 heavy barreled Rem.

mrbgt · « **Reply #25 on:** January 12, 2009, 05:39:31 AM »

use some epoxy and just bed the scope base and loctite the screws, that eliminates any base problems