Author Topic: Woodstove in fireplace? (Read 3703 times)

burntmuch · « **on:** January 01, 2009, 06:49:38 AM »

Im setting up my basement for emergency living. Wether it SHTF or weather emergency. Ive got a 24 by 21 area thats insulated & has a masonary fireplace Not fireplace is nice, but not real efficient. What Im thinking of doing is setting a wood stove in front of fireplace & venting it up thru the chimmney I have unlimited wood supply. Do you guys see any problem with that. Would the chimmney need to be lined. Its gonna be a small wood stove.
Also Im working on a small scale wind generater for 12 volt lights down there & possibly a small blower for the stove. Any thoughts??

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2009, 07:48:28 AM »

I'd try and get a fireplace insert, They are usually more4 effecent than a stove. I am also going to build a wood gas setup to run my generator on, I think I have enuff info I just need to collect componets. Doing this on the cheap so it may take awhile to scrounge everything. My SHTF shack is going up way out in the woods, just 8X8 shack but I have running water nearby plenty of woods with game and wild forage, a river about 5 miles away. I am hopeing to apply all the things we are talking about in this forum to make myself a self sustaining bolt hole.

burntmuch · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2009, 07:54:57 AM »

8X8 sounds good but Ive got a wife & 3 kids. The reason Im thinking small wood stove is We use the fireplace right now. Then when SHTF or weather emergency I would be able to slide the small wood stove over to the fireplace.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2009, 08:52:29 AM »

Take'n care of them younge'ns would be my priority for sure, But all I gotta care for right now would be me.

I think that your idea would work fine, I would make some kind of filler panel to help with heat loss up the chimney, If the chemney draws well I think just one or two lenghts of pipe up in it should work.

BTW I've been lookin at the woodgas gen. and you have to build a cooler inline for the hot gasses, I am thinking about plumbing it inside and scavageing the heat from it to help heat my shack while I am generating electricty. Waste not want not.

efremtags · « **Reply #4 on:** January 01, 2009, 12:37:53 PM »

They make stoves specificaly for this application with short or no legs. Its superior to an insert as the stove has a lot of mass and and a very tight seal to eliminate draft

They sell a liner that is meant for this as well that will transition to your stove. One tip is pick a stove that has a comparable chimney size. Stoves are typpicaly 6 or 8" chimney, you do not want to transition from larger to smaller as it will effect the draft, but the other way is ok.

I have 2 stoves, a Jotul OSLO in the house as an emrgency if there is no electric, and a wood furnace outside that is my primary source.

In a space the size you have, i will be 75 in there easily with your setup. You will probably want to hang out there all the time.

jlchucker · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2009, 02:51:01 PM »

At one time I had a little ranch house with a fireplace in the living room. The company I worked for had an excellent sheetmetal department, and I had a plate made up to put up against the fireplace. The plate had angle iron welded to the back side to fit just inside of the fireplace opening. It had a hole cut for the stovepipe to go into--I used about 10 inches of pipe straight out the back of the stove and into the plate. The plate was fastened with machine screws into two pieces of bar stock that pulled against the upper back side of the fireplace opening. The airtight woodstove that I had at the time was a Tempwood, and this setup heated the whole house, very comfortably. The only disadvantage was that the fireplace was dirty as hell and needed a thorough cleaning every spring--a tougher job than necessary--if I had been thinking, I'd have run some stovepipe up the chimney, with an elbow connecting to the back side of that plate. As I remember, the plate was 1/8 inch steel, and I painted it flat black. I don't have any pictures of the setup that I remember. This winter I'll look thru my collection of stuff to see if I may actually have a pic of this setup.

hillbill · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:02:16 PM »

when i was a kid my dad did the same thing as the last guy said. block off fireplace opening with a sheet of steel and run stove pipe up the chimney a bit. works excellent. much more efficient than the old fireplace.

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2009, 01:30:55 AM »

The chimney should be lined with firebrick and depending on when your home was built and whether the fireplace was built at the same time, firebrick is one of those code requirements - this is good as it keeps your house from burning down.......

Even if you find it is a home made fireplace and chimney not to code spec, the sheet metal wood stove chimney sections will suffice, if you go all the way up the chimney, at least for a emergency.

If you are looking for a small woodstove try and find one fo the airtight stoves - they work much better and the fire lasts longer. Also, try and find one with at least one cookplate on the top, if not two - that helps tremendously when trying to feed your family.

You can block off the fireplace with any fire resistant or fire retardant material and have all that heat reflected back into the room.

Wind or solar power is a good thing. If you can find some of the older Mother Earth News from the 70s and 80s it shows you how to make up a wind generator using old car axles and as long as the wind is blowin' you should get some power. If you can't find a Mother Earth News there are lots of sites to go to regarding wind power. Mikey.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2009, 06:39:02 AM »

I have an airtight fireplace insert in my house. It is made by Cozyheat, but I'm sure other brands are made. I installed mine when the addition to our house was built. If you are installing one into an existing fireplace you may need the services of a mason to get it to fit. As far as chimney linings a double wall, insulated pipe for a flue will be much easier than installing firebrick, maybe cheaper too.

The unit looks like a fireplace with glass doors, except the front is all steel with a vent at the bottom and top. An optional "squirrel cage" fan in the bottom circulates air over the firebox and blows it out into the room and up the ductwork to my 2nd floor.

Cornbelt · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2009, 03:45:39 AM »

Concerning chimneys, I'd like to put in a plug for triple wall stainless. As the interior heats w/smoke, the air in between it and the 2nd wall rises, drawing cool air down in the space between 2nd and 3rd walls. Draws clear to bottom of pipe where it flows to middle chamber and out, always insuring a cool pipe going through floors, roof, etc. Wish I had one. Brother and brother-in-law have had since 70's with no trouble, while I'm on my second masonry chimney and still not quite satisfied. Thought they were rinky-dink, but have changed my mind.

hillbill · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:14:59 PM »

I'm like cornbelt, id like to try one of them also. my last couple chimneys i built of 8 inch well caseing. they burn so cool that they take some cleaning occasionally.mine sit outside the house with about 2 ft of horizontal pipe connecting them to the stove. the horizontal pipe gits plugged up and the well caseing chimney burns so cool it plugs up too in the lower areas.for what it cost me it works awesum. however.when i build my next house ill go with the triple wall stainless straight up thru the roof. the soot falls back down into the stove and burns up.live and learn

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2009, 05:22:58 AM »

i got an insert with a glass door and cooking shelf . We can enjoy the fire and get the heat of a stove .

snapcrackpop · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:07:54 AM »

Anybody checked out the sedore stove? http://www.sedoreusa.com/howitworks.html
It looks like great idea the way this thing works.

torpedoman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2009, 04:12:56 PM »

kids got me a little fan that sits on the stove and the heat of the stove runs it, Thought it was a nice thought but just junk and was suprised how well it moves the heat off the stove.

bilmac · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:32:31 AM »

Back to what burnt originally said, I think you have a plan. I'm sure you know that you want to seal the fireplace pretty good to keep all your heat from escaping. What is a little more questionable is how well the stove will draft. Hot smoke rising is what makes the system work, but sometimes if you dump a little smoke into a big chimney, there can be a plug of cold air that will not let the smoke rise so it will come back out of your stove. This will happen when you first start it up. Once you get the masonary chimney warm it should work fine.

So I would say that you should have some stovepipe available to run up the chimney as far as possible, clear to the top would be best. You don't need triple wall or anything expensive, your masonary chimney is safe. This failure to draft thing is hard to predict, it depends a lot on environmental conditions. Your stove may work fine for a hundred startups, then the 101 time smoke you out of the house. Believe me having your stove pouring smoke out of every opening is no fun.

If the firebox of the fireplace is too small to let you work from below you might be able to lower it from above. They make a flex pipe just for dropping down chimneys to line them but it is probably expensive. You will probably have a damper at the top of your fireplace to deal with Hopefully you can just lift it out. Otherwise maybe flatten the pipe or something to sneak by.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:29:48 AM »

i rolled 2 elbows to line up with mas. flue and it stopped just short of damper and it has worked fine . i leave the door on the stove open a littke until the fire catches up . and warms the stove and flue. I also leave a door to the outside open a little while the stove is warming up . When i first got the stove the instructions said to leave the door open at first . This always works EXCEPT on days with a low cieling and over cast . Then you get a small amount of smoke at first but nothing bad.

1sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2009, 12:52:54 AM »

I put a fireplace insert in 2 previous houses. I just put them in position myself & sealed around the metal frame with fireproof insulation. I put these in regular masonary chimneys. They worked fine. Just slide them out & clean in the Spring.

Now most venders want you to line the chimney if it's to big. The reason is to be sure of a strong 'draw'. You could set the stove in front & put a length of pipe into the chimney. You just have to get it sealed off so it draws well.
Our current set-up is a large Vermont Castings 'Dutchwest' free standing woodstove. Our house is usually 75 or more degrees. We have the backup cooking if needed.

I think you have a fine idea, even if it's just to get by with a power outage. It's like a side hobby for me, I like it when the power co thinks my gas meter is broke.

Also, for an 'insert' a blower is kinda nice, but not essential. Of course if your plans are mostly for power outages, save the extra $100. For a free standing stove I would skip the blower.

jlchucker · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2009, 02:06:35 AM »

Isourdough, this sounds pretty much like the arrangement I used to have when I lived in Springfield, VT. I described it in an earlier post. No pricey fireplace insert needed. just a good airtight woodstove standing in front of the fireplace, with the fireplace opening blocked off by a steel plate, with a hole for the smokepipe. Didn't need a blower.

burntmuch · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2009, 01:50:22 PM »

Im going to look at a Grizzly woodburner sunday morning after work. Its alittle bigger than I wanted but its in new condition with the blower. for $200 . Thanks for all the information guys. Ive been burning wood in the fireplace for a couple weeks now. Not real efficent, but it does help with keeping the main floor warm. Im gonna exsperment with it a little. I think I ll run the cheap single wall pipe up the chimmney & block off the flue. So the wood burner will be sitting on the hearth with the back part of the wood burner sitting in the fireplace. If I dont use this all winter Im thinking about building a cart with wheels the same height as the hearth, so in an emergency I ll be able to wheel it over in front of the fireplace & slide it in. I ll know more on sunday. Once again Thanks for all the info.

gypsyman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2009, 02:21:37 AM »

I have 2 fireplace inserts going right now. One in the basement was free, and came with a blower.I have a full size basement,60x30, and it keeps it around 60. I'm sure that what with the heat radiating up thru the floor, it helps the upstairs to. The one in my living room, with the dampers shut, keeps it at least 70 or more. A few weeks ago, I got home on a Sunday night, walked into the living room, and it seemed like 90. My oldest boy had opened the dampers and cracked open the doors, and it sounded like a jet engine roaring. I quickly shut everything down, and noticed the top of the insert was glowing red. My wife made the comment, sure did seem quite warm. Even thou I get on the roof every year and run a chimney brush down the stacks, I'm sure that I don't have much creosote in that one now.
The one thing I did do a couple years ago, was I had a stainless steel insert installed in the chimney, on the fireplace in the living room. As this one burns almost 24/7 from Nov-April, I felt it was a safety thing I could live with. Cost was alittle over $1200, but gave me peace of mind.
I know for a fact, that with these inserts, I'm saving a minimun of $1,000 a year. I have friends that give me wood, but I have 7 acre's, of which, almost 4 of that is oak,maple and ash. So wood supply isn't an issue. Just gas for the chainsaws,asprin or aleve for my back, and a cold beer at the end of the day. gypsyman

bilmac · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:27:35 AM »

Gypsy

Gathering firewood is good for your soul.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2009, 07:27:54 AM »

but hard on the back !

burntmuch · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2009, 01:34:50 PM »

Quote from: torpedoman on January 19, 2009, 04:12:56 PM

kids got me a little fan that sits on the stove and the heat of the stove runs it, Thought it was a nice thought but just junk and was suprised how well it moves the heat off the stove.

Whats the name brand of the fan. I may look into that option.

jlchucker · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2009, 02:36:28 AM »

Quote from: burntmuch on January 28, 2009, 01:34:50 PM

Quote from: torpedoman on January 19, 2009, 04:12:56 PM
kids got me a little fan that sits on the stove and the heat of the stove runs it, Thought it was a nice thought but just junk and was suprised how well it moves the heat off the stove.
Whats the name brand of the fan. I may look into that option.

I saw one of those advertised in a recent Sportsman's Guide flier that came in the mail. I can't find the flier now, but I think the price was over a hundred bucks.

burntmuch · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2009, 03:56:02 PM »

Wood burner is in. Works great, Only set of the smoke detector twice

Just learning it. Still got some insulating to do, but Im well on my way. Do you guys see any problem storing firewood in the basement?

jlchucker · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:15:48 AM »

Quote from: burntmuch on February 05, 2009, 03:56:02 PM

Wood burner is in. Works great, Only set of the smoke detector twice Just learning it. Still got some insulating to do, but Im well on my way. Do you guys see any problem storing firewood in the basement?

Not if it's dry wood. Green will take a lot longer to dry properly down there. A whole lot longer. What I do is order my green firewood right after mud season--maybe late May/early June, and stack it outdoors. I usually order enough for the whole winter--for me, about 4 cords, split. I don't bother covering it or anything. let the rain come, as well as hot summer sun, snow, etc. It's going to be out there a long time, and covering it only limits air circulation. This woodpile then goes into the basement some 15 months later--after the first killing frost in September/October. It's plenty dry to burn by then, and that killing frost has pretty much scragged all of the insects in the wood. This way, I'm always one woodpile ahead each year. A green pile drying properly, and a dry pile in the cellar for use. I've done it this way for better than 20 years.

Graybeard · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:11:12 AM »

If you lived around here that would be an invitation to termites and you'd definitely bring them in along with a host of other bugs.

jlchucker · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:41:48 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on February 06, 2009, 05:11:12 AM

If you lived around here that would be an invitation to termites and you'd definitely bring them in along with a host of other bugs.

No doubt. That's why I said that I bring my wood in after the first killing frost. You must not get hard frosts down where you live. My outdoor woodpile is buried in two feet of snow today, and has been out there for about two straight weeks of near or below-zero weather. Next summer, it will remain out there until after the first killing frost. If I brought it in during the heat of the summer I'd be bringing in, like you said, a lot of bugs. Today, at 14 degrees at noon, I wish I was down there with you.

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:09:50 PM »

Snow? Whatzat? I think they said it had been a bit over 8 years since we've had snow that covered the ground. I've been here 15 years come July and I think I've seen snow twice since moving here.

This afternoon when Matt brought another load of junk to help me fill up my barn it was 62 at 4:00 PM as I walked up with him. Supposed to be mid 70s the nex couple days so I hear.

Termites and fireants are active year round.

gypsyman · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:48:09 AM »

Burntmuch, I've got one of those fans on the insert in the living room. The name on it is Caframo. It's called the Ecofan. Made in Canada. As the bottom heats up, create's electricity, and a small electromagnet starts to turn. There are 2 size's if I remember right, and I believe mine is a 7'', which, at that time was the biggest one they made. They might make a bigger one now, not sure. About once a year, our family goes to Amish country here in Ohio, and there is a hardware store called Lehman's there. It specialize's in non-electric and propane appiance's, and that is where we bought our's. It was I believe around $120 or so. Seemed kind of steep, but when you consider that little baby has been pushing out BTU's for the last 3 years, I have to say it has more than paid for itself. Google up Lehman's Hardware store, as they do have a web site.
We went down on a Saturday a couple years ago, and they had an Amish auction going on. It was kind of a hoot, to hear the Amish talking to one another, I over heard a conversation where one said, he had sold his old worn out buggy for $300, and was laughing with his buddy, and all I could think of, was whoever bought it probably though he got a steal on it. Try and buy just the wooden spoked wheels and you'll pay more than that. One mans junk is another's gold. Hope this helps. gypsyman