new reloader has a few question? Reloading .223 Lee Factory Crimp?

[223dog]

I just got a Reloading kit for Christmas and a set of dies.  This is all new to me.  I got a LEE breechlock  press kit and a set of lee reloading dies for .223 Remington.  The die set came with a full length sizer a bullet seating die and a Lee factory crimp die.  My question is do I need to use the Factory crimp or will the bullet seating die  provide enough crimp to keep the bullet from falling out of the case?  The instructions that came with the die set says that the "bullets do not need a crimp grooves as the Lee factory crimp will form one while crimping".  The instructions under the bullet seating die says that "a bullet must have a crimping groove or it can not be crimped."  So if i under stand this right If the Bullet has a crimping groove i can crimp it in the bullet seating die;  if it doesn't I need to use the lee factory crimp?  If you could help me figure out when to just seat the bullet and when to factory crimp that would be very helpful? 
Please don't tell me to just read the reloading manuals,  I have looked through a few and they don't mention anything a bout a factory crimp. 

[cwlongshot]

You need to do some more reading.

The crimp is not to "hold the bullet in the case". The FL sizing die and expander ball will take care of that. The crimp is for one or two reasons in the 223. As it is intended to be a semi/full auto round the crimp is intended to keep the bullets in place under adverse conditions of loading and recoil in the magazine.

Your seating die will likely give you all the crimp needed if properly adjusted.

 I an NOT a fan of the "factory crimp" die.

CW

[BCall]

You are correct, you can crimp in the seating die if you are using a bullet with a cannelure, if not you need to use the factory crimp. What are you shooting it in though? If it is a bolt gun, I wouldn't crimp at all unless I was trying to find some accuracy for something special. I have shot thousands of 223 rounds in bolt guns, and have never used a crimp, even with bullets that have a cannelure. I would only use crimping as a last resort if you are looking for something to help accuracy. In my experience it can help at times, but not enough to make it worthwhile for me to do it.

If however you are shooting it in a semi-auto, someone else might be of more help, as I have never shot any in a semi, and do not know if a crimp would be necessary.

In my personal opinion as well, if you did intend to crimp, use the factory crimp die, I feel you can get a more consistent crimp than with the seating die. And you don't have to worry about getting it right on the cannelure, you can seat to your preferred depth and crimp. Some people don't care for them, I like them, but use  them sparingly. HTH, Billy

[Mule]

What Billy said.

All my .223 reloads go through a Mini-14.  I factory crimp every one.

I don't crimp anything that goes through my bolt guns.

Your mileage may vary.

[223dog]

thanks for the help.  I will only be shooting the .223 through a H&R single shot rifle.  So from what You have said I will most likely not need to Factory crimp unless I have a semi auto.  The bullet seating die should be enough to keep the bullet in place for normal hunting and shooting conditions.  Like I said this is all new and I just figured that you guys would be the ones to ask.
I'll have more questions as I get going. 

[bilmac]

223  What happens is your resizing die squeezes the neck of the case until it is undersized. Then an expander ball opens the neck up a few thousandths so that the inside diameter of the mouth is uniform on every case. This diameter is still a tiny bit smaller than your bullets, so the bullet is a hard press fit in the case. That is more than adequate to hold the bullet unless you are going to use it in an auto rifle or a tube magazine, then they need a crimp because of the extra forces put on them. Have fun loading, be careful it can be addictive.

[Savage]

I have not found a reason NOT to crimp ALL cases. I have found several good reasons to crimp. Among them: Consistent bullet pull, and no worries about bullet setback in auto loaders. I never use the seating die to crimp. I have found nothing better than the Lee Factory Crimp Die to perform that operation. Unless you use only brass from the same lot and turn case necks, it's unlikely you'll achieve these results without crimping. As you already have the die, adjust it per the instructions and give it a try. Then try seating and crimping at the seating die and see what you think.
Savage

[Lloyd Smale]

im with savage. I tend to crimp about anything that has a crimp grove. If your brass is trimmed to the same lenght it has allways seemed to give me a tad more accuracy. Also when i load 223s even for the bolt guns i do it in large batches. Usually at least a 1000 at a time and even though its not intended for the ars or minis i will give up a little bit of accuracy that a guy gets with things like neck sizing and bullet seating differnces to insure that if crap hit the fan it will run in my black guns too.

[Curtis]

I have not found a reason NOT to crimp ALL cases.

There are several good reasons a person might choose not to crimp.  Seating the bullet just off the lands is one.  The ability to use bullets without a channelure is another.  Remember, 223dog is loading for a single shot.  Another factor is brass length.  If you're not crimping, length is not as critical as long as you're in spec (not too long).  If you're crimping, then the brass needs to be trimmed to a consistent length or your crimps are not going to be consistent, possibly affecting accuracy because of inconstent bullet pull.

I shoot single shot as well (Contender) and the only load I crimp is 44 mag.  I use H-110 for these loads and it is said that this powder burns better with a crimp to get the pressure up quicker.  All my others including 223 just get seated.

Curtis

[Savage]

I would guess that most powders burn more consistently with a crimp. I trim all my bottleneck cases to a uniform length, and check them at every loading. The LFCD crimps jacketed bullets without channelures. And like Lloyd, my ammo has to run in any rifle I might load it in. Especially my black rifles! All my ARs shoot well within an inch with my loads, if I do my part. A load developed for a benchrest rifle that requires the bullet to kiss the lands, may or may not shoot better with or without a light crimp. Depending on the individual shooter's preference. Not saying that every load/rifle will shoot better with a crimp, but mine shoot better than I can with one. That's reason enough for me.
Savage

[fastbike]

Add another +1 for the Lee FCD!