Author Topic: Importing vital gun part into the US for repairs (Read 1189 times)

Humbo · « **on:** December 18, 2008, 11:38:11 PM »

Hi!
I don't really know where to put this question, but this seems like a good place. I want some modifications (repairs) done on a cylinder for a Freedom Arms M83. I'm loacated in Europe, and dont really know how difficult it is to send vital gun parts into the US, even though it's only for repairs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Who do I need to contact, which forms etc.?

Thanks in advance!

Humbo

MS Hitman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2008, 02:30:47 AM »

Humbo,

I understand there is a large group of Freedom Arms shooters in Germany. You may be able to contact this group and get the assitance you need. Hope this helps you.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2008, 02:35:35 AM »

i would call FA directly and ask them how theyd recomend you deal with it. My first thought though would be to find a local gunsmith to do the work. It sure would be cheaper. I once sent some bullets to a guy in europe and marked them as machine parts for customs. they made it there but it was the slow boat from china they put them on i think. With all the terrrorist crap now id bet it isnt as easy as when i did it though.

Humbo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:03:25 AM »

MS Hitman, that was not a bad idea, thanks. I just sent an email to the admin at freedomarmsshoot.de and asked for his advice. Hopefully he'll know how to proceed.

Lloyd, I've had a correspondence with Bob Baker at FA, and he'd be happy to help me out the best he can. He could even explain the procedure to a Norwegian gunsmith, so it could be done here. But I just don't have enough confidence in the local gunsmiths to let them work on my FA. I've had some bad experiences with far easier operations than the one I want done on my cylinder. But as a last resort, I will try to find one skilled enough to have a go at it.
Only about 6 months ago I ordered some .44 magnum and .357 magnum adapters for a 12 gauge shotgun from the U.S. I had them in less than a week, no problems at all there. So it could be easy, and it could be not.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:45:07 AM »

If the work is "repairs to a cylinder", and you can send only the cylinder, it should be no problem to send it to Freedom Manufacturing, by,say, DHL or UPS.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** December 19, 2008, 04:09:38 AM »

Dunno about DHL really but UPS is global so for sure you should be able to send it that way. I'd mark it machined parts which is an honest description of the part. I'd darn sure insure it for the full replacement value of the gun tho just on the off chance it fails to return to you.

Again tho I say I think you are being way too anal about this. I understand you want the throats at .4525" but there is not a thing in the world wrong with them at .4515" that you seem to think they are now. I'd almost bet that a proper pin gage inserted into a completely clean throat would show it closer to .452". There really is nothing to be gained accuracy or performance wise by opening them more than they are now.

I think maybe you also have a problem with some bullets not fitting and that really is just a fact of life with FA guns. I have some ammo loaded by Grizzly I think it was that just plain won't fit into my FA83 but fits into a S&W 629 with no problem. The precision with which FA guns are made do some times limit you but changing those precision dimensions to make any bullet fit is only gonna reduce the accuracy of it.

My advice to you is to forget the plan and stay with it as is.

Humbo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 19, 2008, 04:55:38 AM »

Graybeard, I realise that I'm propably a bit anal about this, and I will think it over. But if there isn't much trouble shipping the cylinder out to FA, I guess I'll do it. First I'm going to measure all throats with a pin gauge and see how far off from .4525 they are.

I guess it's not that big a deal for a U.S. citizen, but believe me, getting a Freedom Arms revolver in Norway can be very difficult. From my understanding, the only thing that limits the number of guns you own over there, is your wallet. I'd probably own a dozen FA's if I was American, in Norway it took me 12 months to get one after I decided that it was going to happen. And believe me, it's not going to get any easier. Last year we had the first ban on specific handgun calibers, everything larger than .455 dia is simply prohibited. You can still get a licence on a .450 Marlin BFR, .460 S&W etc. but f.ex. .480 Ruger is banned. Where is the logic? I have no doubt that they will cut it down even more in the future.

I've realised that my FA .454 Casull is probably the only big bore handgun I'll ever own because of those plain stupid politicians over here. But hopefully they can't stop me making it 100% perfect for my needs.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2008, 12:14:03 AM »

I agree with bill about doing this. Heres my take. If i was going to shoot cast bullets only id open it up but if jacketed are what you shoot id leave it alone.

Humbo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2008, 12:35:27 AM »

Lloyd, I've sent about 4-5000 rounds through my FA, and 5 of them were jacketed. That's right, 5. Right after I purchased my .454, MidwayNorway decided to reduce their stock, and instead get everything from MidwayUSA. I bought all their jacketed .452 bullets, I figured I could use them later on for hunting rounds. I haven't had the chance to hunt with it yet, for that I'll have to go to the U.S. or Africa. Jacketed bullets are just too expensive for practice here. But I love casting my own bullets, so it doesn't really bother me.

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2008, 10:20:23 AM »

Let me ask a question no one seems to have yet. WHY are you wanting this done REALLY? Is there an accuracy issue? Of have you just got it in your head that the throats aren't what you want them to be and even tho the gun shoots with perfect accuracy you just gotta change it?

Humbo · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2008, 11:29:42 AM »

GB, the reason why I want this done is because I want to be able to shoot heavier bullets, in the 340-380 grs range. I'm taking my FA to South-Africa, and if my wallet permits it, I will try to take down cape buffalo. I've talked to Veral at LBT, and those WFNs are the best bullets for the job. And to my knowledge there aren't any other bullet on the market with the same weight and which let you use the same amount of powder. I need all the juice I can get.
And to be perfectly honest, there is also the reason that I feel my FA is slightly out of spec, and I can't stand it. It's just in my nature, I'm the kind of guy that can actually lose sleep over a thing like this. I've read that having throats just a tad bigger than the bore is the ideal scenario and will work better. And my bore is .452 so... If anyone know any medication that might help, don't be afraid to say so!

I will try to size the WFNs down to .451 before I do anything about my cylinder. If they then chamber without any problems, and accuracy doesn't suffer, I guess I'll stick with my cylinder as it is. Do you think opening the throats will do more harm than good? I will never do anything that might damage my revolver in any way, I was just thinking that opening the throats will take care of all my problems.

Sorry for being difficult.

Anyway, I've done some measuring and testing on my cylinder. The tightest spot in the throats seems to be from the face, I always assumed throats were tighter in the rear. What is the official standard from FA?

Thanks for still reading my posts!

Humbo

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2008, 11:43:13 AM »

Hey it's your gun and your money so it's your business to be as difficult as ya wanna pay to be. I'm just trying to get a better feel for the WHY of it than I felt I had before.

I'll not argue that the WFN nose isn't a bit better than a LFN but in my opinion not enough better to justify the expense you're about to go to just to shoot it if that were the main or only reason.

I've never hunted Cape buff but several of our handgunners here have. You might try discussing it with them what bullets they used and recommend. If I were to do it with a .454 I think I'd likely use 340s personally but that's not from personal experience with buff.

Humbo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:00:46 PM »

Bill, what do you think about this procedure: http://www.gunblast.com/Brownells_Reamer.htm ?
Do I risk ruining my cylinder?

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2008, 05:45:01 PM »

Yes you definitely run that risk. If ya do it right you'll probably cause no harm but as I've been trying to tell you I think you are being over anal about it. I have no doubt your gun is as close as it is humanly possible to being exactly like every other FA83 .454 that has left the factory. Their tolerances are held to incredibly close dimensions.

I think the only real reason you might need the change is to shoot bullets really too heavy for the round anyway or at least that's my opinion. If you can't do it with a .452" 340 grain bullet you need a larger bore.

Humbo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2008, 01:43:58 AM »

I agree, it's a bit on the heavy side, but I don't have the luxury of buying a .475 Linebaugh or .500 WE. I just have to make the best out of what I've already got.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2008, 02:45:53 AM »

If you've already fired 4-5,000 rounds through the gun, and its accuracy has been satisfactory to you, I wouldn't do anything to it. Period. As Graybeard says though, its your gun, not ours. And it will be your non-replaceable steel that will be removed, not ours.
Cape Buffalo and the often larger Water Buffalo have been killed with many loads and bullets, including the 360 gr. Cor-Bon Penetrator, which fits the FA .454 cylinders that I am aware of. Cost of jacketed bullets? In today's market a Cape Buffalo hunt will run a minimum of $8000 US...more likely $10-13000 US, all inclusive. A couple hundred more dollars for practice and zeroing as well as hunting, is insignificant.
Getting the cylinder to Wyoming should be easy. The decision to do it ? That's something else again.

Humbo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2008, 03:19:25 AM »

Ken, if you're owning anything bigger than a .44 magnum in Norway, you're totally dependent on reloading your own ammo. I've seen maybe a couple of shops selling factory .454 ammo, with a selection of only a couple of different bullet weights. And I have never seen anything heavier than 300grs. Cor Bon is just not available.
The heaviest jacketed bullets I've seen in the .454 are the 325grs Swift A-Frame. I have one box of those, they cost 120 dollars pr. box. That's close to 2.5 dollars pr. bullet. I'm waiting for a Starrett micrometer, then I can finally get the exact size of my bore and throats nailed down. Then I will make my final decision.

no guns here · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2008, 08:40:09 PM »

Humbo,
I am TRYING AND TRYING to figure a way to get you some more .454 ammo at a good price. I live in Germany and wouldn't mind a trip to the north of Germany if you were to be in the country. I just can't figure it out. I can bring in ammo pretty cheap but I don't have a .454 on my WBK. I don't know anyone who does either. I've called a couple of our rod and gun clubs and they just laugh at me when I mention the .454. I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

ngh

Humbo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2008, 11:24:33 AM »

NGH, I really appreciate the effort! Shipping ammo into Norway is not easy, actually it's much more difficult than shipping guns. Germany is not that far, and I have friends who go there all the time. So if it's possible to get cheap .454 ammo there, I would like to hear more about it.
Merry Christmas to everyone! I've already got one present, and it was an RCBS Pro melt, yey!

Humbo

44 Man · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2008, 12:23:28 AM »

I would just send off to RCBS for a 451 sizer and run your cast bullets through that. Much cheaper to just size the bullets to the gun than to alter the gun to fit the bullets. 44 Man

Humbo · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2008, 02:06:14 AM »

44 Man, that would for sure be the easier approach, and I'm going to give it a try. I'm waiting for a .4515 and a .451 sizing die as we speak. If accuracy doesn't suffer and there isn't any increase in leading from using slightly undersized bullets, I guess I'll stick with my cylinder as it is.

Humbo