Author Topic: 45/70 bullets and loads for black bear (Read 6645 times)

Jasper243 · « **on:** December 16, 2008, 10:23:55 AM »

Hello-

My two young sons are excited to try a bear hunt with me next fall, here in Michigan. I bought my "Michigan Dangerous Game Rifle", a Siamese Mauser action barrelled to 45/70, which I am currently tinkering with before shooting. I would like bullet and load suggestions for black bears. I obtained a box of Remington 300 grain JHP's to start with, but didn't know if they were designed for a hotter 45/70 load. Thanks a million.

Jasper243

efremtags · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2008, 02:46:24 PM »

DONT USE THEM. These are very soft bullets and will over expand / under penetrate.

The nosler 300gr is a good bullet if you are looking for a milder load.

I used the REM 405 over H322 in my guide gun (loaded full potential). I got complete penetraton on a shoulder shot this year on a 200lb bore. It kicks pretty bad though.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2008, 02:56:26 PM »

I like the 400gr SPEER and IMR 4198 powder.

I dont care for the lite 300's myself. There is a 350SP one of the companies makes I have gerd good things about. But I have no first hand experience with that one. The 400 Speer is a good one. I have used it many times and it accounted for my last bear. It works wonderfully at just over 2000fps.

CW

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2008, 03:03:48 PM »

Here is my black bear load. 49.0 gr. of H322 under a Montana bullet works 405 gr. hard cast bullet, from my 45-70 Marlin.

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2008, 03:55:37 PM »

Contrary to popular belief, the 300 HPs are not varmint bullets, and considering your sons are young you won't be loading them up too hot. I shot a 250# Alaskan blackie with a Hornady 300HP loaded to about 1750 fps in an old H&R Trapper - one shot behind the shoulders and complete penetration.

I had great luck with the Hornady 350RN in my own M98 Siamese Mauser, which I built from a mail-ordered Thai rifle in the mid-70s. Loaded to 1850 fps it expanded well judging by the wound channels and I never recovered one from a caribou or moose. I also used the 'varmint bullet' on deer with this rifle, and the only bullet I ever recovered was from a Kodiak blacktail shot at 225 yards. It entered under his chin and I found the mushroom under the hide on his rump. Perfect expansion too, although impact velocity was probably only 1150 fps.

As the above demonstrates, after 36 years of using the .45-70 on game I found that the moderate loadings do just as well as the .458-style loads, and I don't have to worry about losing any teeth from recoil and report. The .45-70 doesn't need magnum velocity to kill very very well.

.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2008, 01:47:26 AM »

I also load for a buddy of mine for his Marlin 45-70. I am loading the Remington 405 gr. SP bullet over 39.0 gr. of IMR 4198. He shot 2 black bear with this load and both bullets went completely through the bear. The load is very mild compaired to my load I use in my Marlin.

The reason my got as hot as they did was, that is where I ended up after load development for the best accuracy. I never noticed the recoil when I shot a bear with it.

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2008, 09:19:24 AM »

Expelling a 350 gr bullet at 2000fps will leave a noticeable impression on both, the target as well as the shooter.

drdougrx · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2008, 11:06:36 AM »

I donno.....I use 350gr speer sp toppa 46gr IMR4895. Velocity is 1700fps from my Ruger #1. A couple of over 300 lb hogs and a mature 9x8 Red stag hit the deck like a sack a spuds. My last hog went 400lbs and it literally rolled over at the shot. My nephew shot another 200lb+ hog at 25 yards and it was a complete pass through. I know I can load it hotter but .... why??? BTW... I've shot three bears, one each w a 270, 3006 and a 300win. A 45/70 would work just as well based on my limited experience.

BBF · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2008, 12:07:06 PM »

What is it you donno?

I've done 350 and 400 gr jacketed stuff with 50 grains of RL 7 and remember it !!
But then I also remember 450 Marlin factory fodder from the Guide Gun.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2008, 03:14:29 PM »

Don't underestamate the 300gr JHPs.
Yes they will exspand but do quite a lot of damage on the way through, and I do mean clear through.
I have never recovered a 300 bullet from any game ever animal shot, no matter what the angle!

LONGTOM

Jasper243 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2008, 04:14:30 PM »

Thank-you all for taking time to help. I plan to try a number of these different loads to see what shoots best, and then go from there...

Jasper243

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:15:07 AM »

Good plan Jasper.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2008, 12:53:13 AM »

black bear here in Mich arent that huge. A big one goes 300 lbs and ones bigger then that are very rare. Average bear is about 200 lbs and is no harder to kill then a deer. About any load or bullet you can work up in a 4570 will take care of them.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2008, 03:02:08 AM »

Lloyd you are right, the black bear is not hard to kill. But I like to make sure I brake them down, and get an exit hole. The fur of the bear will soak up a lot of blood, and make it hard to track. Big holes and broken bones make for a short tracking job, but also a lung or heart shot is key. Shop placement is what is really needed.

Camp Cook · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:22:44 PM »

I load from 300gr to 550gr bullets for my Marlin 1895GS 45-70, 350gr Swift A-Frames with 54grs H322 is my load that I now use about 90% of the time.

bluecow · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2009, 04:48:23 AM »

405grn hard cast and 65grns of 2f in my trapdoor has done every thing that i needed. i dont think that you need to magnimize the 45-70 for it to be effective. do you like the bolt gun? always thought that was a darn good idea wish someone was still doing that

teddy12b · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2009, 05:04:40 AM »

Lots of good information here. Back when I had a 45/70 I really thought the Cast Performance 460gr bullet was pretty impressive on steel targets. I read a lot about the 300gr Rem JHP expandign too quickly. There is a report on this over on gunblast.com. The guy shot a black bear 6 times and wasn't impressed with the bullets. Personally I think shooting a black bear six times..... I'm not impressed with the shooter. The Hornady 350gr is usually a favorite when I read about black bear loads. You may want to read the reviews for each of these bullets on midway.com. Those reviews usually help me decide what I want to start loading next.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2009, 06:10:00 AM »

Jasper243, I've been reading this thread and smiling the whole time. Some of the info is good, some is keyboard hunting tales.
Either of the Remington factory loads will poleaxe a Michigan black bear; it's not T-Rex hunting........it's a black bear.
You don't need a 300 mag for pronghorn, either.

Time for a little reality check around here.

doeroller · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:10:08 AM »

I am with the other guys. The Remington HP might be too soft, but on the other hand the Hornady HP is plenty. I have shot scores of 200lb plus deer with the Hornady bullet and have only caught one. The Nosler bullet speaks for itself. Another good 300gr bullet is the Barnes SSP. I push these bullets over 2400 with 55gr H-4198.

SJPrice · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:10:07 AM »

Quote from: doeroller on February 11, 2009, 06:10:08 AM

I am with the other guys. The Remington HP might be too soft, but on the other hand the Hornady HP is plenty. I have shot scores of 200lb plus deer with the Hornady bullet and have only caught one. The Nosler bullet speaks for itself. Another good 300gr bullet is the Barnes SSP. I push these bullets over 2400 with 55gr H-4198.

OUCH

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:44:32 AM »

Nothing beats the Remington 405 grain factory load.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:01:45 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 25, 2009, 07:44:32 AM

Nothing beats the Remington 405 grain factory load.

My experience agrees with this ....on large hogs the 405 factory load just chugs forward and through making a big hole and usually quick death. It isnt a glamorous load but it is very effective.

Dustyvance · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:24:32 PM »

No Black Bear experience but I do have lots of experience with ( Mississippi) whitetails I have shot ( at last count) I think 12 with Winchester 300gr JHP and haven't even had 1 run at all. My field isnt huge but I shoot most of my deer at about 110yrds. BANG-FLOP! I have shot 4 hogs(#250+) with the same bullets with same results

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2009, 04:44:56 AM »

Of coarse the 300's will do it. I certainly didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

With all the big bores, I subscribe to the heavy bullet for caliber theory. The bigger the better. Dont need that big, shoot a smaller caliber.

So in my mind, why would you use a 300 when a good 400/405 is avalible.

This is pretty much the top weight in a jacketed bullet for the 45-70. Yes there are heavier lead bullets and numerious for the 458mag you could shoot. But the 400/405 jaacketed is about top weight specfically made for the 45-70. Lead bullets are also very good in these heavy weights, but thats another topic.

I have shot Bear with the 400 Speer and numerious deer with the 300 Sierra and Hornady and that 400 Speer bullets. All performed perfectly.

CW