Author Topic: 240 XTP in Bisley Hunter 44 (Read 3296 times)

rimfire · « **on:** November 24, 2008, 08:55:27 AM »

I need to slow this way down in my 7.5" to help dealing with recoil. Currently shooting 24 grains 296 and a heavy crimp. Want to drop down as much as possible and still get reasonable expansion/performance from the bullet on Whitetails.

I hear good comments about the Black Hills load that supposedly is only doing 1300 fps out of a 7.5" revolver. I am shooting near 1500 fps if my Chrono is to be believed.

Anyone with any experience at past 50 yards only starting this bullet at 1300 fps or even less?

Got a load to give me around 1300 fps that you might recommend by PM or e-mail? I was thinking of trying IMR 4227.

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2008, 08:24:16 PM »

For whitetail you would be better off useing a lighter bullet than doing away with speed if you want to stay over 50yards.Bullet weight makes a big difference in recoil and a 200 gr. bullet is still bigger than whats used in most deer rifles JMHO

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2008, 02:52:16 AM »

I can meet your 50yds and raise you 3yds as this is the range at which I took my '07 deer. My load of 23.6gr of 296 came straight out of the Hornady Third Edition manual and was said to be moving @ 1,250fps.
The result of this shot was the 240 XTP entering in front of the left shoulder & exiting behind the right shoulder at perhaps 3/4" diameter.
For '08...I bumped this charge on up to 24.2 grains because of the addition of a scope and the greater potential for the longer range shooting at my late season area. The recoil really doesn't bother me and I don't know what to tell you about this other than you will probably hardly be conscious of the recoil when shooting at a deer.
I would stay with that 240gr bullet as it is of an excellent deer class weight.

Your chrony reading doesn't really suprise me as I believe that John Tafffin recorded something over 1,500fps with the full 25gr charge and the 240gr XTP

Catfish · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2008, 03:39:18 AM »

I have found that the Sierra 240`s expand alot better at revolver velociyies than the XTP`s. They are both very accurate, but below 1,500 fps the Sierra`s just seem to preform better.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2008, 03:43:16 AM »

I've found that the recoil produced with Blue Dot loads in the 44 Rem. Mag. is quite a bit more pleasant than H110/Win. 296 loads.

irold · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2008, 03:05:38 PM »

Or.........sell your revolver to me , and buy a rifle ! ....That appears to be the handgun I've been looking for , still haven't found one ! Sorry off subject , but ...how do you like it ? PM me if you want , or e-mail that way no one will grip for me taking your thread off subject. Thanks , irold

MS Hitman · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2008, 03:46:42 PM »

I can't agree with going lighter with bullet weight; 240 grain bullets are the lightest one should go with the .44 Mag on deer.

Lone Star · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2008, 02:50:32 PM »

I concur, don't give up both bullet weight and velocity. A 240 at 1100-1300 will work fine at 75 yards. Unlike some others, I find the XPTs (not the MAG versions) to be rather soft and will open fine down to under 1000 fps. The trajectory out to 75 yards is not different enough to cause a miss.

Reducing charge weight reduces recoil too. I like BlueDot loads for slightly reduced velocity with notable recoil reduction. For 1200 fps you could use Unique....

.

BBF · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2008, 12:12:22 PM »

Blue Dot Start at 13.4 gr.
2400 Start at 17.5 gr
should give you what you want

oneshotwonder · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2008, 09:45:23 AM »

Quote from: MS Hitman on November 26, 2008, 03:46:42 PM

I can't agree with going lighter with bullet weight; 240 grain bullets are the lightest one should go with the .44 Mag on deer.

Some feel that you must use the 240gr. bullet to take a deer. I don't feel that is necessary. You may want to take a look at this post: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,157289.0.html There you will find others that use lighter bullets in the 44 Mag.. Heck, even Hornady loads a 225gr. in their new Leverevolution ammo for use on deer size game. Just something to consider.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:31:13 PM »

Frankly, I could not care less what others are doing, particularly when going to light for caliber bullets. People make bungie jumping ropes; doesn't make that a terribly clever idea either.

ccoker · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2008, 04:39:07 PM »

I shot a doe last year at 75 yards with the factory Hornady 240xtp out of my blackhawk hunter
first round went into shoulder (bad shot) and busted ribs but failed to exit far side
doe came back around in a few minutes and continued to feed as if nothing happened
2nd shot was perfect heart shot, deer ran 30 yards and was dead
that shot didn't exit either

first shot was obviously a bad shot and 2nd good shot killed the deer as it should.
it wasn't a big deer...
and if the shot were closer perhaps would have had penetration

moved on to some 265g beartooth bullets over 17.5g of 2400 and group 1" at 50 yards (when using a scope)
haven't got a chance to shoot anything yet but am confident in the load

oneshotwonder · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2008, 01:30:59 PM »

MS Hitman, please don't take offense. I was merely offering an alternative to Rimfire and pointing him to a thread he may find helpful. As far as bungee jumping goes, it's not quite the rush of skydiving, but it'll make you grin!

MS Hitman · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2008, 04:48:48 PM »

No offense taken. Never saw the need to jump out of a perfectly good airplane either.

Possum · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:30:54 PM »

I'm shooting the same load as you are with the same gun and getting the same velocity. Can't help you with the Black
Hills load, but with 1" groups at 100 yds I can put up with the recoil. It is a strong load. I also shoot lead in the 1200 to 1300 fps range and it groups well. My gun shoots a variety of loads well and you should not have a problem downloading with a suitable powder a bit to help out with the recoil. My experience in powders has been good with Unique and #5.

countryrebel · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2008, 01:01:41 PM »

My load is 23.5 grains of h110 behind the 240xtp and it works good. 1450fps out of my 7.5" super redhawk.

buck460XVR · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2008, 10:05:39 AM »

Quote from: countryrebel on December 18, 2008, 01:01:41 PM

My load is 23.5 grains of h110 behind the 240xtp and it works good. 1450fps out of my 7.5" super redhawk.

Same load I use outta my PC 629. Altho I haven't had the chance to use it on deer yet, it is very accurate.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »

Just a suggestion here. Why don't you go to a 24 gr hardcast bullet and not worry about expansion? 1300 fps will punch a nice hole clean thru, Deer die when you do that. I shot a nice 150 lb doe last year with a LBT style bullet right around 12 to 130 fps at 40 to 50 yards, She made it about 40 yards before pileing up.

I do the same with 180gr LBTs out of my .357, I've never tracked one more than 75 yards. Always punch clean thru.

IMHO expansion is over rated.

Ole Man Dan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:16:58 AM »

I switched from 240 XTP's to Hard Cast bullets, a couple of years ago, and have never looked back.
I have complete pass thru shots with 265 WFN hard cast bullets at 1200fps on deer & hogs. I have also killed one elk with this bullet. Another pass thru shot. I've made the 265s my everyday load and use it on everything.
I also load my .45s with the Hard Cast bullets at around 1200fps. (Same results)

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2009, 09:11:26 AM »

Barry looking this one over again and see I've not replied to you on it. To reduce the recoil try a 240-250 hard cast over about 17.0 to 17.5 grains of 2400. It should reduce the recoil considerably from the load you now use and give full penetration and exit on most any shot you take. It was the load my friend and I used to use in competition many years ago and works great on deer. It's accurate and mild on recoil but keeps the velocity over 1000 fps and gives excellent penetration.

We used the Lyman 429244 GC bullet but a Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 250 KT would do just as well.

rimfire · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2009, 09:32:57 AM »

GB,

I actually purchased some 250 grain Beartooth gas checked hard cast to try so will probably give that load a shot. I just cannot take the recoil...my hands and wrists complain after I shoot even just 5 shots.

Thanks.

Handgun Hunter · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2009, 11:56:43 AM »

I agree to stay with the 240gr. XTP. I used to reload 2400 and could not get thewvelocity that you can from H110 or 296. The only problem I had, was it seemed to burn dirty, very acurate, but dirty. As an earlier poster said, maybe Bluedot?

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »

Quote from: rimfire on January 13, 2009, 09:32:57 AM

GB,

I actually purchased some 250 grain Beartooth gas checked hard cast to try so will probably give that load a shot. I just cannot take the recoil...my hands and wrists complain after I shoot even just 5 shots.

Thanks.

My best friend Billy Doss (now deceased) was like that he just didn't like recoil at all and kept wanting it milder and milder. We shot that load with 17.0 grains 2400 in TCs for years and the S&W 29s with 10-5/8" barrels. We both had them.

He eventually experimented and dropped the load as low as 12.0 grains I think and used it for some time. I have no clue what velocity was on it but he sure liked the recoil with the lighter loads. I know 2400 is very forgiving of reduced charges but I don't know to what level. I tried to talk him out of the lowest loads he used but he said he wanted less recoil and just kept dropping until he got to 12.0 and used a lot of them. They worked for him I can't say how such low loads would work for you but we both used the other by the thousands perhaps tens of thousands.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2009, 03:37:39 AM »

Quote from: buck460XVR on December 19, 2008, 10:05:39 AM

Quote from: countryrebel on December 18, 2008, 01:01:41 PM
My load is 23.5 grains of h110 behind the 240xtp and it works good. 1450fps out of my 7.5" super redhawk.

Same load I use outta my PC 629. Altho I haven't had the chance to use it on deer yet, it is very accurate.

Was just curious if this would be a good load in my 629 Classic which I believe is pre-92. I have been keeping my 240 gr loads at around 1250 fps with JHP's with 15.0 gr of 2400.

Racer X · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2009, 05:00:14 AM »

I believe the 24 grains of H110/296 is supposed to be a factory equivalent load for the 240 XTP. I use the 250 XTP in a 45 Colt SBH Hunter going around 1200 FPS (20.3 grains of 2400). I never got a shot at a deer this year, so I have no first hand experience with the XTP's performance on deer.

However, I must say that my experience shooting 4 deer with a 45/70 using a hard cast WLN cast bullet with a .360 meplat have been disappointing. I know this is a handgun discussion, but a wound channel produced by a .360 meplat cast bullet going 1500 FPS should be at least as large as that of a 250 - 300 grain WFN with a identical meplat out of a 44/45 caliber handgun going 1200 - 1300 FPS. My field results are as follows:

Deer # 1 was facing me at 50 yards. I hit her high on the shoulder and she ran ~ 25 yards into heavy cover and laid down. There was no blood trail and I almost lost the deer.

Deer # 2 was a neck shot and hit the ground instantly and bled pretty well. I was actually aiming into the shoulder, but the deer moved just as I pulled the trigger.

Deer # 3 was a shoulder shot at about 20 yards. She ran like hell for at least 100 yards into heavy cover and I was not able to find the deer. There was also no blood trail.

Deer # 4 was similar results to # 3, about a 50 yard shot into the shoulder. I followed a very light blood trail for almost half a mile and never found the deer.

After this experience, I quit using cast on deer and switched to the Hornday 300 grain HP on 45/70.

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2009, 12:29:24 PM »

Perhaps changing your bullet placement is really all that was needed. High hits do not leave much of a blood trail really as it just pools inside the body and doesn't leak out so well. A low lung shot or heart shot bleeds well and being low allow a lot of leakage for a good blood trail.

I think the results you got as far as what the deer did are quite typical for the hits you indicate. I will say however that when you fail to recover a deer shot placement is questionable. It might or it might not have been what you thought it was based on your point of aim. I think the example you gave of aiming at shoulder but hitting neck bears this out.

No deer with a bullet thru both lungs is going to go all that far. Within 100 yards or less most times they will hit the ground dead. Then it is your job to find them. A good blood trail sure makes that easier and a low shot say around 1/3 of the way up the body thru both lungs or heart sure makes this much easier.

Based on my experience and that of many others I know who use cast bullets I think bullet placement far more so than the use of a cast bullet was responsible for the lost deer.

Racer X · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2009, 08:11:40 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on January 15, 2009, 12:29:24 PM

Perhaps changing your bullet placement is really all that was needed. High hits do not leave much of a blood trail really as it just pools inside the body and doesn't leak out so well. A low lung shot or heart shot bleeds well and being low allow a lot of leakage for a good blood trail.

I think the results you got as far as what the deer did are quite typical for the hits you indicate. I will say however that when you fail to recover a deer shot placement is questionable. It might or it might not have been what you thought it was based on your point of aim. I think the example you gave of aiming at shoulder but hitting neck bears this out.

No deer with a bullet thru both lungs is going to go all that far. Within 100 yards or less most times they will hit the ground dead. Then it is your job to find them. A good blood trail sure makes that easier and a low shot say around 1/3 of the way up the body thru both lungs or heart sure makes this much easier.

Based on my experience and that of many others I know who use cast bullets I think bullet placement far more so than the use of a cast bullet was responsible for the lost deer.

Graybeard,

I do not wish to hijack the discussion the original discussion by going off topic, so I will be brief.

You make some good points about shot placement. I had always heard to shoot through the shoulders when using cast bullets so that is what I did. Perhaps I have been aiming too high on the body. Now that deer season is over and we are hunting hogs exclusively from the same stands, I will switch back to a WFN in my 45 Colt and see if I have better results. The trouble with where we hunt is that if animals run into the thicket without a blood trail, they will not be recovered; with a massive blood trail, recovery will be challenging.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Graybeard · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2009, 06:17:36 PM »

For hogs the head/neck shot is the proper one to take. Just be sure you know where in the head/neck to place it. On smaller ones a high shoulder shot can also catch the spine and drop them on the spot. Hogs aren't deer and the shot on them isn't really the same.

To make sure you know proper bullet placement for hogs check out Kevin's site www.texasboars.com where he has detailed photos/drawings to show this.

drdougrx · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:46:36 AM »

I've switched from the 300gr XTP to the 240 for my SW29's. The front sites were not high enough and the guns group 6" high at 25yrds. I used the 240 on a 400lb hog that I shot this last December (pics in the hog forum). I aimed for the shoulder at about 35ryrds and he piled up. Since he had close to 2" of fat and gristle plate all the way to the middle of his back...there was no blood or visible hole. Skinning didn't help to clear this up and the butcher was uninterested in working with me on this. We turned the hide inside out on a table at the taxidermists but I also did a coup de gras and I couldn't figure out which shot was the 1st one. Anyway, I used 24gr H110. Seems to work fine and I'm sticking with it.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:07:30 AM »

Personally for me, the 240 gr. hard cast bullet is a great bullet weight for deer. It is the performance I want and the accuracy is great. Recoil is extremely manageable.

I do not like light weight bullets.