Too much recoil?

[Sverre A.]

I got a 4", 629.
Loads: 310 and 300 gr. bullet/Vithavouri N110 20 gr/H110 21 gr. - both about 1300 fps.

I have some revolvers/TC`s in .44 and bigger, and feel that I have a lot of "experience" with recoil - but this is the worst thing I ever have shot with.


I have no problems shooting 50 shots with it - but after 2 shots - my arm is shaking and shaking.

If the same thing happens during the hunt - I am a little concerned.

I have also tried to go down to 1100 fps - but my arm is still shaking after 2 shots.

Is the little gun "touching" some muscles that I did not know that I had 

[inluvwithsara]

I am not a fan of hot loads in any double action frame, single action with a smooth(non rubber)grip is the way to go...I have a Super redhawk and a super blackhawk, the redhawk is heavier and a longer barrel, but the blackhawk grip shape is much more forgiving...

What grips do you have...and you might try some shooting gloves...

[Sverre A.]

I have two grips for it.  I will try the Pachmayr decelerator too - before I go down to 200 fps .

I don`t like SA grips at all - so I have rubbergrips on mine - but my Bisley grips is ok.

I can`t understand that Hogue don`t make the Tamer for S&W

[barber]

I tried Decelerator grips on my SBH H unter, and it didn't take long for me to go back to smoooooth grips for it. I have Decelerator grips on my SRH .44  and they do a fine job for me, but not on a SA.

[buck460XVR]

I got a 4", 629.
Loads: 310 and 300 gr. bullet/Vithavouri N110 20 gr/H110 21 gr. - both about 1300 fps.

Hornady lists the max load for a 300 grainer with VIHT N-110 as 16.6 gr....3.4 below your load. It also list the max load for H110 and the same bullet as 20.1gr. almost a full grain below your load.  Maybe why the grips sting a little.

[Graybeard]

No doubt about it a 4" S&W .44 Magnum and heavy loads is a heavy kicker and not fun to shoot. Dat's why I don't own one anymore. My shortest barrel S&W .44 mag is a 6" and I much prefer them even longer.

You can go to the Classic serious with full underlug and that does help and in those a 6" isn't bad at all even with heavy loads. I used to have a model 29 with a 10-5/8" barrel. I think it weighted around 52 or 54 oz as best as I recall. It was quite pleasant to shoot with all loads. I find the Pachmayr Presentation grip best for me to handle heavy recoil from the S&Ws.

I realize over there where you are Sverre it's not so easy to just go trade off a gun but I'd sure recommend you look for a 6" 629 Classic with the full under lug or one with 8-3/8" barrel. In either you should be able to shoot that load without the pain and arms shaking.

BUT it matters not who you are or what gun you are shooting there comes a point shooting heavy recoiling loads that you are gonna start to shake and not long after that you WILL develop flinches if you don't back off.

[Redhawk1]

I really do not notice more recoil from a shorter barrel. My 4 inch S&W 500 Mag is not any worse than my 8 3/8 inch or 6 inch 500 mag. The same goes for my 7.5 inch Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull or a 2 .5 inch Super Redhawk 545 Casull.

[Sverre A.]

"Hornady lists the max load for a 300 grainer with VIHT N-110 as 16.6 gr....3.4 below your load."

"I realize over there where you are Sverre it's not so easy to just go trade off a gun but I'd sure recommend you look for a 6" 629 Classic with the full under lug or one with 8-3/8" barrel. In either you should be able to shoot that load without the pain and arms shaking."


In my SRH 7,5", there is no problem with this load - and I have shot a lot of animals with it.

But why should I trade the 4" off?

I`m sure I can find a reason for owing it 

[Tom W.]

Recoil, and more to the point, muzzleblast, bothers some more than others. I like that load of H110 in my Super Redhawk, but remember that it is a massive revolver....

[Lloyd Smale]

n frames and heavy loads do mix well for me either. Id much rather them in a single action. MY N frame 44s get a steady diet of 250s at 900-1100 fps.

[S.B.]

Pretty hot load for a S&W N frame? What's your reasoning for loading so hot, is there something that big in Norway? 1000-1100 fps has taken nearly everything on this side of the ocean. I think your way above SAMMI specs with your pressure in this load, probably doesn't help accuracy any either? I would think you revolver won't last long loading that hot?
I have been shooting the Lee 310 grain bullet out of my 629-4 Mountain Gun with no problems but, the velocity isn't anywhere near what you've been shooting. I thought the recoil impulse was a little less than my regualar loads of 240 grain Keith over a moderate amount of 2400?
Also, what grips are you using, I use the Hogue 500 grips. Try reading some of John Linebaugh's writings at:
http://www.customsixguns.com/index.htm

[Glanceblamm]

Since you can shoot 50 of them ok (but with some arm shaking) is it really too much recoil?
Most of the guys here use the 12ga w/slugs for the deer hunting and hate the chore of sighting in but yet are barely conscious of the guns recoil when shooting at a deer.

This does not help you out any with your practice I know but perhaps a small target but a fun target that really catches your attention seems to work wonders on letting one relax
and get off accurate shots verse tensing up in anticipation of the recoil.
Just my 1/4cent worth but it does have some merit as you know.

[mcwoodduck]

I use the friend method of 44 mag shooting.
when I first shot my M29 I was having problems and was shooting way too low.  After adjusting the sights to where the post fell out.  I realized it was ME.  At that point I bought some 44 specials and had a friend load the cylinder for me.  He had specials, Mags, and empty brass to use.  When you hit one of the empty rounds and the gun comes off target you know what your doing wrong.
A friend got a 629 5" not too long ago and was having problems.  A full cylinder of empty brass and we figured out what was going on.  He assumed that I was going to put something live in the gun and when he went through 5 clicks he flinched the 6th.  I reload a 180 grain hot spl load at 1,000 fps and shooting those and then up to the same 180 grains up to 1600 and then the 240's at 1200 got him to hit what he was aiming at 50 yards away.  Also dark sunglasses seem to help.  I say practice with lighter stuff and save the heavy stuff for the last few rounds till you get used to the recoil.
What are the last 4 didgets of you M629 with shooting loads over Max I just want to make sure I do not end up buying it.

[Autorim]

Another overload. Why is it that on so many posts on this site that so many shooters are looking for that max load? Why not be satisfied with a more moderate load?

IME, if I search for that accurate, but more moderate load in any caliber I tend to be more satisfied and have more shooting fun with few problems. - and that includes .22 Hornet up thru .338 mag and 45-70 plus 9mm thru .44 mag and .45LC. I find severe muzzle blast and heavy recoil not as much fun. They don't shoot any better, don't take game any better and are harder on the firearm, brass, ears,hands and shoulder. My advice - back off - have more shooting pleasure.

[Glanceblamm]

Another overload. Why is it that on so many posts on this site that so many shooters are looking for that max load? Why not be satisfied with a more moderate load?

Very good advice for me or perhaps you but I believe that Sverre A. is in Africa and hunting some of the tougher stuff there.

[Grumulkin]

If available to you, you might try a different powder like Blue Dot or Tight Group that require less powder for a given velocity.  With less mass going down the barrel, recoil will be diminished somewhat.

I also never load for velocity; only accuracy with acceptable.  There is no reason for a hot load unless it contributes to accuracy.  Also, one should not flirt with with over maximum loads in a revolver.  You can get by with this in a bolt action firearm (not that I'm recommending it) but a revolver isn't as strong and you could damage it or yourself.

All that said, a load with acceptable pressure in one gun may give excessive pressure in another.  When pushing maximum loads don't assume that a load safe in one gun will be safe in another.

[corbanzo]

I don't think moving down a few grains of powder is going to help much when you are talking about a 300 grain bullet. 

I have definitely joined the long barrel crowd, I bring out the short barreled monsters when I'm trying to screw with my buddies.  Like GB stated, for fun shooting, 6" is a good minimum.  My short barreled boys are my pack and protection guns, that is about all they get used for anymore.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know about that. When it comes to the true hard kickers like the 454 475 and 500 ive found and many who have shot with me have found that the short barreled guns can actually be easier to shoot. They tend to have less muzzle flip. Ive kind of come to the conclusion that its because the bullet stays in the barrel a shorter ammount of time. And in big guns, that includes the 44s even with 300 grain bullets. a 2 grain drop in powder charge can make a BIG diffence in recoil.

[Redhawk1]

dont know about that. When it comes to the true hard kickers like the 454 475 and 500 ive found and many who have shot with me have found that the short barreled guns can actually be easier to shoot. They tend to have less muzzle flip. Ive kind of come to the conclusion that its because the bullet stays in the barrel a shorter ammount of time. And in big guns, that includes the 44s even with 300 grain bullets. a 2 grain drop in powder charge can make a BIG diffence in recoil.

That is what I find also. I never understood why people keep saying a short barrel has more felt recoil. I just don't experience that.

What I do notice is more concussion, and more flash, and I think some people do associate that with more recoil.

[Cottonwood]

I have been shooting a 305-gr WFN GC loaded with 15.5 gr of 2400 which is nice recoil in my 629 6", deffently not punishing on the N frame either.  BUT, I have found that my 629 is much more accurate with a lighter grain bullet and will be moving down for accuracy purposes.  I have a pending left shoulder surgery in a few days, so testing loads will have to wait.

[Bigeasy]

Sverre-

Couple of things.  A short barrel might give a little more recoil, due to lighter weight, but what you really are probably noticing is increased muzzle blast / flash.  Make sure you wear good hearing protection.  In a double action gun, recoil is best handled with a rubber type grip that covers the backstrap, especially the recoil hump - it helps spread out the surface area and gives a little under recoil.  A padded glove may also help.

If you are getting 1300fps in a 4 inch Smith with a 300 grn bullet, that's hot.  I would load it down to around 1150 fps or so and call it good.  A hard cast, or strong jacketed bullet at that speed will penetrate like crazy, and handle any need short of a Texas heart shot on a moose.

Sight in for the 300 grn. / 1150 fps. load, then load a bunch more at about 900 fps, and practice with those loads.  There is a lot to be said for practicing with the load you are going to use for combat shooting, but for big game, you are not going to be engaging multiple targets, or shooting fast triple taps double action...

Larry

[S.B.]

What's "a Texas heart shot on a moose"?

[Glanceblamm]

S.B., I believe that the Texas Heart Shot is arguably the original term for sending a boo-lit straight up the arse of the game animal.
Sometimes, (if ya get lucky) you will miss both hams!

[kiddekop]

During a bison hunt I told my outfitter I had a perfect texas bullseye shot,he said don't do it since he and his helper had to process the animal.I watched as they opened it up and  realized what would happen with such a shot into the massive intestines & rumen I would've had sh*t flavored bison.The liver was huge ,they asked if I wanted it ,I declined.On my Ruger BHs I have Hogue Rubber Grips to ease the recoil impact on my arthritic hands.

[Bigeasy]

S.B., I believe that the Texas Heart Shot is arguably the original term for sending a boo-lit straight up the arse of the game animal.
Sometimes, (if ya get lucky) you will miss both hams!

That pretty much is what it is.  Some guys here in the North East will shoot at the south end of a north bound buck, and it can be effective with a good bullet, but really creates a mess.

[EdK]

While a short barreled revolver is lighter (affecting recoil equation) and also produces more blast,  the same N-frame with a few more inches of barrel will generate more velocity also resulting in more recoil. I wonder which is the greater contributing factor: a couple ounces less weight, a couple hundred more FPS or whether they cancel each other out? Something to think about...

Oh - I also prefer the Keith load in my 629MG. No real heavies for me.

[S.B.]

EdK, velocities can also be increased by lessening the B/C gap along with other deminsions on a revolver. Don't know if recoil is increased with this, or not, like has been stated before, I never feel the shot, when shooting at game(deer)?
 Therefore, I feel There is entirely too much worry about this topic on the net?
I know this started as one man's question about a particular gun and load so, I would ask him, what load manual did you get your load from? This should be the very first step in any loading procedure(get and read a load manual).
My $.02.
Steve

[inluvwithsara]

These days I only shoot Meister's 300 grain, with either a light to heavy charge of Unique powder or Trail Boss...

The Rugers love em'!!

[Sverre A.]

"What are the last 4 didgets of you M629 with shooting loads over Max I just want to make sure I do not end up buying it."


I`m looking for the "perfect" loads for all of my guns - but before I find that load - I have to try some different loads.

And one of that loads have been 310 and 300 gr. bullet/Vithavouri N110 20 gr/H110 21 gr. - both about 1300 fps.

Lee 310 H110/20 gr. is 1125 fps., and the Mimek 300 gr. is 1000 fps.
This big difference with reducing only 1 gr/H110 - tells me  that I have been working on an edge - or am I wrong?

Lee 310/Vithavouri N340/6 gr./680 fps. - is very accurate and seems to be the daily load.

Before I end up my experiments - I have to find out the penetration (after finding good accuracy )
If 1100/1150/1200/1250 fps penetrate as good as 1300 fps - I can assure you that I not will go for 1300 fps




 

[Graybeard]

And one of that loads have been 310 and 300 gr. bullet/Vithavouri N110 20 gr/H110 21 gr. - both about 1300 fps.

Lee 310 H110/20 gr. is 1125 fps., and the Mimek 300 gr. is 1000 fps.
This big difference with reducing only 1 gr/H110 - tells me   that I have been working on an edge - or am I wrong?

Yes I believe it's safe to assume something like that only I think it safer to assume you went beyond the edge. If that one grain made that much difference then to me that says that the lower velocity load is also likely from a half to a full grain more than safe as well.

I've used 20.5 grains of H110/W296 with 300 grain bullets in the past but ONLY with bullets having two crimping grooves that allow me to push more bullet out of the case making more room. If not I generally consider 19.0 to be max.

As I've said to folks before it's your fingers, your eyes and your life you're putting in danger so it's your business not mine but pushing the envelope will backfire or explode on you one of these days. That's from someone who many long years go had a TC .44 magnum come apart in his hands. It was not fun and I not ever intend to let it happen again to me at least.