Rumblings

[Bart Solo]

50% or more of his donations came corporate donors. Not this BS spewed by him that it came from these poor bedraggle abused people who sent in their last 10 dollars so they could witness change. These fools will witness change allright as will the poor souls that didn't vote for this idiot. I hope I am wrong very wrong saying that.

God, I would hate to be you. To live in a world without hope unlike those "poor bedraggled abused people" you disparage with such vigor.  It must be very depressing. 

[jvs]

This is not a Political thread in a Political forum.  This is a warning in a Bolt Action Forum.  You can take it for what its worth or just ignore it.  

One thing I will say though...

Ron Byers,  What is it that brings you here? You challenge me for my sources, and you get into political debate with other members with an arguement from the political left.   Are you really in the right place?  One thing for sure, I owe you nothing.  No explanation nor resources.

As far as my sources go... they are my sources, not yours.  My message is for the members that can heed a bit of advice, not to put a Obama/Democrat or a Political Voodoo Doctor on a pedestal.  As in the past, I have related other rumblings, and most have come to pass.  If you don't believe it, just ask around.  

If you or anyone else chooses not to heed my warnings, then by all means do so.   Either stay on message, take it to a suitable political forum or don't bother to reply.  

You see... for me to bend to your demands of my sources would mean that either we are equals, or that you are superior to me, when in the end... you couldn't carry my J*ck Str*p.

[Bart Solo]

I don't want to be in a political debate.  The mods here let the Cooper thread go on and then you posted this political thread yourself.  I want to get back to talking about bolt action rifles. I would love to see all these political threads moved to the pot belly stove where they should be. 

By the way, my father taught me that all Americans are created equal even me.

[oldelkhunter]

 JVS  you are absolutely right . Sorry I even wasted disk space discussing politics.

 The little gun shop around the corner from me who is owned by a guy I have known for 13 years told me that Election Day and Yesterday were the 2 best days he has ever had saleswise. This guy sells a ton of rifles and shotguns and probably outsells the Gander mountain near my home in both shotguns and rifles.

[Swampman]

I don't see any logical reason to buy a Cooper.  There are plenty of $300.00 rifles that shoot just as good.

[swiftman]

I am from Illinois and if you believe he won't try to take our guns, you are saddly mistaken. He even voted twice to not protect anyone whole takes a life in protection of themselves or family in their own home from prosecusion. He is from the great city of Chicago which would not allow you to have a firearm of any kind if they had their way. He was in on the cop killer bullet ban try. They tried to outlaw any weapon of .50 cal and over in this state including shotguns and muzzle loaders.
 He can just have the UN do it for him when he reintroduces it as part of the  World Poverty Elimination Act that will have the citizens of this country and others paying taxes to the UN it will include the ban on all private ownership of small arms. Then he can say it wasn't me.
The Chicago Democrates , and Mayor Daly have been trying for years to use any and all means of desrtroying our second admendment rights in this state, and now we have one of them in the White House.

[Cement Man]

Now that this thread is on this forum, I guess I'll jump in again.

Swiftman, I am also from Illinois (now rural, but was born, raised, and mostly a Chicago boy)now retired and 62 years old.  I have loved guns, hunting, and fishing all my life.  I first joined the NRA in 1962.  I have devoted many years and a lot of money to teaching shooting, hunting safety, starting young folks into the shooting sports and hunting.  I have always obeyed the law and tried to emphasize morals and character in the outdoors.  I have seen all manners of new gun control, FOID cards, background checks, etc. etc.  I have seen my home state enact some of the goofiest restrictions and some of the worst laws for preventing law-abiding citizens from posessing firearms for legal purposes.  More frightening are some of the really absurd regulations that have been and will continue to be proposed and put into effect. 

I have seen this state evolve into a liberal/urban anti-gun, and yes - for all practical purposes an anti-hunting majority over the past 50 years.  The lib penetration into the schools and therefore the children, is frightening.  My grand-daughter and nieces see my mounted deer on the wall and question "Papa" with an accusing look on their face - "Papa, why did you kill that poor deer to put on the wall?"  Both my son-in-law and daughter were/are deer hunters, so they aren't getting that BS at home.  It's the schools and the teachers, the media, and the soccer moms.

When I went to HS 48 years ago, there was a shooting range in the basement and a rifle club.  That stuff is a distant memory today.
Times and attitudes have changed.  People can go the the Illinois State Police website and check how firearms and ammo are defined to include everything but water pistols (maybe next).  Try to order a flintlock muzzleloader kit from Cabelas anymore.  Living in Illinois, you can't do it.  Defend your life and family in your own home in some of the Chicago burbs with a handgun and find yourself in jail.  Even with some of the strictest gun ban laws in the country, Chicago has more deaths than Iraq year to date.  Through all of these changes over the years, we have tried to reason, to demonstrate legitimate, lawful, and safe use of firearms and it makes no difference whatsoever.  None.  These people want NO GUNS.

Illinois is a sad but accurate example of the progression of urbanization and liberalism, and the pattern is pretty standard.  It's not California - yet, but give it time.  Maybe in some ways it is already worse here.  You and I both know the political influence and the Chicago machine's power not only in this state, but nationally.  Without the machine, Obama wouldn't be where he is.  They are powerful, relentless, and they hate guns. Period.  Obama owes them and there will be a payback required.

I think that people who live in other states with less of this cultural change, or at a lesser progression of it can't grasp or understand it as it isn't in their world - yet. They are naive to this problem. That's my theory.  Missouri is still a relatively gun-friendly state.  I don't think a Missouri suburbanite really understands or believes the incremental creep of this problem.  It's not real to them.  But it will be.  It will be for sure.  The Dems look to be gaining the trifecta - exec. congress, and ultimately the court.  Look out gun owners.

The myopic Kumbayah singers who think they have it pretty good now and forever are in for some surprises.

[billy_56081]

jvs Ron is one of our resident liberal posters. No reason to trust him or anything he says. Anyone who is for ripping a baby out of its mother sucking its brains out leaving it quivering on a platter, calling it a choice. Will have no problems lying, cheating or stealing from you. What a sick vile bunch.

[bigoledude]

Hey Ron
You go on and on about special interest groups and how they lie to us.  Please explain where the NRA is corrupt.  Your claim that you are not referring to the NRA is disingenuous.  I hope you see my attempt at civility here. 

Rich Pearson gave you concrete, personal proof of Barack Hussein’s anti-gun stance and, you continue to ignore this obvious stance of your President.  You continue to argue without acknowledging anyone’s points.  In other posts you talk about us shaking our fists at the moon (or something).  Yet, you treat our words as though they are not even spoken/written.  You rant nonsense without regard to facts.  No one here has been reluctant to respond to your points.  I’m sure you don’t have time to respond to many but, surely you should answer the compelling ones. 

You get all long-winded discussing special interest groups.  Dude, Barack Hussein crawled out of the filthiest corrupt political machine in United States history.  How do you regard the Daley’s, Acorn, Rezko, Frank Marshall Davis (an admitted child molester and communist), Bill Ayers (Here we go again, what if he’d been molesting little boys when Barack Hussein was 8 years old?  And wishes he had molested more?).  You know very well that I could go on longer with heinous characters that he was CLOSE to.   

You somehow draw some consolation in that because Barack Hussein has not been important enough, for long enough, for lobbyist to target, he is somehow clean.  You cannot be serious!  This bunch he hung with would have prevented him from being given security clearance by the FBI.  That’s not my opinion, it’s a fact!! 

I know you hate to respond to specific points.  With no sarcasm intended, please answer this.  Jeremiah Wright taught and preached very strictly and adhered to, a religious doctrine called Black Liberation Theology.  Wright proclaimed often and loudly his devotion to BLT doctrine and David Cone’s teaching.  No possible wiggle room here.  The question that begs for an answer; Do you believe Barack Hussein worshipped at the feet of Jeremiah Wright FOR TWENTY YEARS and never had a clue that this PIG hated white people, hated the United States, and hated Jews?  I will spend the next 4 years leaving snippets of David Cone’s “scripture” everywhere I frequent.

Are you calling us sheep?  With your constant regurgitation of the far-left dogma, your opinion of us as “sheep” actually frightens me.  As I mentioned before, you seem to be a decent man. 

Middle America was always a bastion of morality, fairness, goodness and hard working folks.  The democrats have somehow found a way to have the majority of Americans vote for this party that stands for everything that is vile, nasty and wrong.  They don’t just tolerate evil, they clinch their fist, set their jaw, look right into our eyes, and snarl their assurances that they will do everything they can, to bring more depravity and decadence into our lives.

I asked you to explain your acceptance of Barack Hussein’s relationship with Wright.  Please also, give me some examples of the conservative’s position that could even remotely be considered immoral?  Ron, are you actually proud when this guy walks onto the stage?

[Mikey]

OK, everybody in chicago go look for Mrs. O'Leary's cow so we can have another chicago fire sale - then chicago won't be so vocal about things.  Then of course, we can get a livestock permit for nyc and have the same sort of a, ummm, accident there too. 

I think pretty soon people will get the message...........................

[Cement Man]

MIkey,
The cows will then be branded as "assault cows" and from then on cows will have to have safety locks on their legs so they can't kick over stools, and will be limited to only one teat.   

[Dee]

There are truths and half truths, and just not truths posted here. I won't point fingers as it would only garner an argument disguised as a debate.
But the fact about Obama AND McCain is BOTH were led around by lobbyists. McCain's campaign manager was a LOBBIST that had lobbied McCain for years.
The problem is coming from both sides of the isle, and both parties need to be cleaned out, or a third, more honest party inserted into the mix.
I don't believe either will happen because everyone here, seems to be trying defeat the other, while Washington continues to do business as usual, which is to rule OVER US, instead of FOR US. I would guess this is but a small picture of the rest of America. JMO

[Cement Man]

There are truths and half truths, and just not truths posted here. I won't point fingers as it would only garner an argument disguised as a debate.
If you won't say what you are referring to, why say anything?  I think it's a pretty good debate and there has been a lot of sincere input.
But the fact about Obama AND McCain is BOTH were led around by lobbyists. McCain's campaign manager was a LOBBIST that had lobbied McCain for years.
McCain lost.  I think his campaign manager should be hung.  At some point, why keep ragging about McCain?  That sounds more like wanting to argue than debate.
The problem is coming from both sides of the isle, and both parties need to be cleaned out, or a third, more honest party inserted into the mix.
AGREED - so what are you personally gonna do to achieve this, and when?
I don't believe either will happen because everyone here, seems to be trying defeat the other People are trying to make their point and they have a right to do so, if they do it acceptably., while Washington continues to do business as usual, which is to rule OVER US, instead of FOR US. I would guess this is but a small picture of the rest of America. Maybe so.JMO

[Dee]

I was trying to make a point of the division among ourselves that cause us to quarrel internally, and point fingers at sometimes imagined offenses against one another. Thanks for the demo.

[Gohon]

How can one say this "If you won't say what you are referring to, why say anything?", then turn right around and say this "People are trying to make their point and they have a right to do so"? 

Dee, your statement was correct and point understood by most I'm sure.  No need to reference any particular post as they speak for themselves.

[Cement Man]

How can one say this "If you won't say what you are referring to, why say anything?", then turn right around and say this "People are trying to make their point and they have a right to do so"? 

Dee, your statement was correct and point understood by most I'm sure.  No need to reference any particular post as they speak for themselves.

and your contribution to the discussion is??

[Cement Man]

I was trying to make a point of the division among ourselves that cause us to quarrel internally, and point fingers at sometimes imagined offenses against one another. Thanks for the demo.

Dee,
Thoughout the pre-election period you have been one of, if not the most vociferous voices for a third party candidate.  And you have been pretty argumentative and shrill about it.  I understand your point, and agree with many of the things you have said that have led you to that position.  I have not argued with you or debated your viewpoint with you.  I always figured that after the election, people like you and I would find a common ground on the issues that we share opinions and passions about and figure out how to work towards fixing things.
Just this morning, you called everybody that voted for McCain a dumba$$.  What's the point of that? You think I like to be called that, especially by someone who is "pointing out about quarreling" ? You say I gave you a "demo" about quarreling?  In all sincerity I'm not seeing what you are talking about.

Moving on to the future. You didn't answer. I ask again: What are you gonna do about our country's problems, and when?   Maybe I'll work with you!

[Dee]

Cement Man why don't you take the dumb ass comments IN CONTEXT. I responded to BRETT. I called him by name. If you didn't understand my point directed AT HIS attitude toward independents then perhaps someone could draw you a picture.
I DID express my opinions on candidates as did everyone else. So what's your point there? Shrill you say?  Contentious and condecending is the order of the day for Republicans when not agreed with in their view of things. This is exacty what I was talking about. 

[Cement Man]

You know Dee, you are right.  It was a response to Brett, and here is part of what you posted:

"To all you dumb asses that voted for a dumb ass and lost......"

I took the word "all" to mean "all".  "All" in any context means "all", not "Brett".  And I did vote for McCain, so I thought you included me and others who did so in that statement.

You don't need to draw me a picture.  (Contentitious and condescending you say?) I understand without a picture. 

You're right though, there was a context in which you wrote that and I truly did not mean to take you out of context.  I apologize.

Now, I still ask:  What are you gonna do about our country's problems and when?  I want this country to get back on track and stand ready to join any sensible effort.

[Gohon]

and your contribution to the discussion is??

Wow...........spoken like a authoritarian.  Don't know if it was just another one over your head or if it was just an ouch that hurts.  Either way it shows a lack of respect for other posters and what is seemingly a belief it's your way or no way.  Could be wrong but that is the way you're coming off.  That was not a personal attack on you but a curiosity how someone could make such a contradicting statement in the same paragraph.  Besides, what discussion?  This thread has blown in so many directions  the topic means nothing. 

Now I'll ask you the same question you've ask twice of someone else.  What are you gonna do about our country's problems and when?  Before you ask, I intend to do nothing.  At 65 young years I've done about all I can do with 27 years military service, 3 terms on my city counsel, and various other local organizations.  I've done all the do I can do.  And you??  By the way, I did vote for McCain and being called a dumb ass for doing so bothers me not.  I've been called worse names for doing a lot more important things than that. 

Like it or not, Obama is now my President.  He is your President, our President and as President he deserves everyone's support as he starts out.  I do not like him and any support I hand to him as he begins his Presidency may very well diminish or be completely withdrawn in the future.  The President is a powerful position but it is not the all powerful position some seem to think.  That power lies in the congress where most fears of this countries future should placed.  Not one single promise Obama or McCain made can be accomplished without the aid of the congress.  The President cannot submit any bills.  He cannot pass any bills, he can only sign them.  Even the one big power he has to negotiate treaties has to be ratified by congress.  In my book, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are a much larger threat than Obama.  Not to mention the Republican leadership we have today that have driven the party into the ground.  As a famous Indian once said, "I'll fight no more forever".

[Swampman]

Like it or not, Obama is now my President.  He is your President, our President and as President he deserves everyone's support as he starts out.

He may be your president, but he will never be mine nor have my support.  I'll do my best to ignore him, & pretend he doesn't exist.

That's what I did with the clintons.

[Cement Man]

Gohon,

I'm only 62, and I still am looking for ways to contribute to our country.  I don't intend to stop at 65 either.  I wasn't career military like you, but I am a veteran as well.  I have spent many years teaching hunting safety and still teach shooting safety.  I served on the board of directors of a local hospital, I was a firefighter, EMT, and Emergency Rescue Technician for several years, teach Sunday School, chair a committee at our local church. I worked for 40 years after the service, raised my kids, put them through college, and now I am taking care of my elderly relatives. Thank you for all of your service by the way. And thank you for your graciousness in not being bothered if you are called a dumb ass.  I hope you will grant me the same tolerance for asking a simple question.

What do I intend to do?
(1) stay well informed
(2) follow what elected officials that are supposed to represent me are doing, and let them know of my opinions
(3) continue to promote the shooting sports and outdoor life - from a safe, and moral perspective
(4) continue to support organizations that agree with my interests and passions - like the NRA, The IRSA, The American Legion, VVA, Christian Childrens Fund, Minnesota Deer Hunters Assn, Viet Now, and various Christian missions
(5) vote in every election in my district after learning the issues
(6) look for ways to join and work with others who believe as I do regarding the issues concerning the future of our country - the only way I know to do this is to start at the local level and work upward
(7) obey the laws and be a good example
(8 challenge other opinions if I don't understand or agree with them, and be honest and fair in my opinions.

I can't think of any more right now, but suggestions are welcome. 

I hope that my concerns about Obama are proven to be unfounded.  Having watched him as our senator, I think my concerns are valid.  Having watched the political machine in this state and seeing the players that I am familiar with being installed into the WH organization, I am worried.  You are correct regarding how laws are passed but - the presidency + congressional majority + ability to make next SCOTUS appointments takes away the checks and balances.

Enjoy your liesure.

[Gohon]

Cement Man,

When I said I wouldn't be doing anything I guess I should have explained.  I meant standing on a sidewalk handing out pamphlets, gathering signatures, sitting at at voter registration table, manning phone lines all day...... that sort of thing.  The things you listed are of course things I did and do simply out of habit and will continue to do.  I would hope and think others would also.    I don't think either of us are disagreeing on much of anything here if anything at all.  I hope your concerns about Obama are proven to be unfounded also as well as mine.   You sound like the type of fellow I would enjoy sitting at the local dinner, drinking coffee with and adjusting the truth about that last hunt or fishing trip.  Take care.........

Swampman,  sorry you feel that way but try to remember it is the position/rank, not the man you should respect and support.  I would hope you at least give him the benefit of the doubt until we see just where the wind blows.  To do otherwise is to live on innuendos and rumors which without ever knowing  as Paul Harvey says.....the rest of the story.

[Cement Man]

Thanks for the kind words Gohon.  Nice to make a new acquaintance.  If you ever are in NW Illinois, the coffee is on me, and I never, never adjust the truth about that last hunting or fishing trip.

[Dee]

You know Dee, you are right.  It was a response to Brett, and here is part of what you posted:

"To all you dumb asses that voted for a dumb ass and lost......"

I took the word "all" to mean "all".  "All" in any context means "all", not "Brett".  And I did vote for McCain, so I thought you included me and others who did so in that statement.

You don't need to draw me a picture.  (Contentitious and condescending you say?) I understand without a picture. 

You're right though, there was a context in which you wrote that and I truly did not mean to take you out of context.  I apologize.

Now, I still ask:  What are you gonna do about our country's problems and when?  I want this country to get back on track and stand ready to join any sensible effort.

Cement Man, there is little to be done at the moment. One must simply remain calm and pay attention. As far as preparing? I have been a boy scout for 50 years. I am waiting and watching. I am more at the moment concerned at where the economy is going BEFORE Obama takes office.
I will say this about our problems politically. I consider both the Republicans and the Democrats FOR THE MOMENT, a lost cause. I will support a select few of them, but as a majority, no.
I will vote only for those 100% pro- Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I will also agree with you and stand ready to join any SENSIBLE effort. However, some of the swings taken at my ideology will get it right back, and some here, I would not pull out of a ditch. You are not one of those.
The Republicans have abandoned the people just as the Democrats have. That should have been abundantly clear when during the bail out, millions of callers were simply ignored. Our government approaches Rogue status in that regard. JMO

[Cement Man]

Dee,
I mostly agree with you. I've somewhat "laid out my thoughts on what I intend to do", but the frustration will continue to be there.  Well, I guess it will be chill out for a while, stay informed, and keep plugging away and looking for a better way. 

Boy Scout, eh?  Absolutely one of the fondest memories of my youth. 

Take care.

[indiancreek235]

The democrats blame Bush for all the jobs going overseas due to wages. Now the Democrats want to tax the companies so that they are going to go overseas to escape taxes. Same Old BS just a different wrapper!But you want to know where Mr. Obama stands on guns.http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crime-and-law-enforcementAnd as for that queer muzzleloader Shockey and the American shooting association (which you should know the Sierra club has made this a decoy association to doop everyone) Some of  us like the idea that we can buy high capacity magazines and assault rifles. I've hunted successfully with an AR-15 for years. But as far as repubulicans or democrats both have lost touch with reality to the point that they will never join forces to resolve probelms instead stonewall good ideas because the other thought of it. As far as liberals go I never have met a liberal that wasn't for some sort of gun control.So read the link out of his own mouth.

[Star1pup]

Right, 11% of the population elected him.  Right, sure. Believe what you want. 

Young people elected him. He beat the two best boomer political machines ever built.  The Clintons and the Rovian political machines have dominated America for the last 20 years. Both were based on the special interest, identity politics model I wrote about above.  They were manned by the professional lobbyists who make a living lying to us sheep.  The pro-abortion crowd. The anti-abortion crowd. All those asshats who have been accomplishing nothing for a generation. 

As one who has been a writer/producer for several local and state campaigns, I don't agree that Obama beat two of the best political campaigns.  Obama had the best organized campaign I have ever seen.  Hillary and McCain both had inferior campaigns.  I'm not taking sides for or against the president elect; just staying the facts as I see them.  The McCain staff never did get on track and now they want to blame Sarah Palin for their own ineptitude.

[Cement Man]

As one who has been a writer/producer for several local and state campaigns, I don't agree that Obama beat two of the best political campaigns.  Obama had the best organized campaign I have ever seen.  Hillary and McCain both had inferior campaigns.  I'm not taking sides for or against the president elect; just staying the facts as I see them.  The McCain staff never did get on track and now they want to blame Sarah Palin for their own ineptitude.

That I agree with Star1pup.  Obama's people made the best use of the internet and the media that I have ever seen.  They were well coordinated, smooth, well financed and very well organized.  (I wish they hadn't been so effective but they were.)  I supported McCain and contributed to his campaign.  Everytime I did, and I saw some of his ads I'd get mad for them wasting the money I sent.  "Best boomer machine"?  I'd hate to see a bad one then.

[UtahRob]

IF !!!

  you trust that  Obama will not take our guns then you are a fool  !!!

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=10345292&ch=4226716&src=news

  you think Obama is not a Racist you are crazy !!!

 You don't go to church and listen to someone you don't believe for  17 years .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3wh2XT4e8M&feature=related

AS far  as  i am concerned,  there is nothing about Obama i would trust !!