I'm Lookin' To Buy A New Handi (My 2nd One)

[jdwolf]

I'm lookin' for an all purpose Handi rifle.  A get 'er done gun that packs enough punch for up to black bear size game.  I've narrowed my choices to 2 calibers,  a 30/30 or a 357 magnum. 

I keep hearing in this forum that the 30/30 is probably the most out-of-the-box accurate of all Handi's.  But,  I also own a Ruger New Model Blackhawk 357 that would be an ideal companion to a 357 Handi. 

What do you think?  Which way should I go?   

[Troyboy]

Can't say don't have either. #2 ? Sounds like handiholic to me




                                                     Troy

[jdwolf]

Can't say don't have either. #2 ? Sounds like handiholic to me




                                                     Troy

  I can't help it.  I have a 223 Handi that is a dang good shooter.  I love that little rifle!  I want another one!!

[quickdtoo]

Get both JD, just figure out which to buy first!!  The 30-30 would be the better gun for black bear, it will work well at considerably more range than the 357, and they shoot well with most loads, the 357's looooong jump to the rifling can be troublesome when looking for accuracy with a lot of loads. Lots of folks here just hand ream theirs to Max to make them excellent shooters, then you'd have a rifle that's on the heels of the 35 Remington, excellent bear medicine.

Tim

[Slufoot]

Of the two choices I would choose the 30-30. I would feel alot more comfortable with the 30-30 if I were going to shoot black bear with it.
Also remember that you can load spitzer bullets in the single shot 30-30 and this will flatten the trajectory over flat point bullets and will also retain quite a bit more energy at extended range.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Badnews Bob]

The ole .30-30 would be the best out of the box with bear in mind, But I hear .357s are good black bear medicine too. Just stay with heavy bullets for penitration.

Like Quick siad thou a .357 reamed to max will certainly do well on bear. 180gr hardcast @ 2000 FPS will take care of anything in the eastern US. I sure love to shoot mine.

[dpe.ahoy]

I have 3 of the 357 barrels and one 30-30.  All 4 shoot well it seems.  2 of the 357's are new, just back from Remington, and have only shot a few rounds in each, but at 20 paces they made a ragged hole with 4 rounds after sighting in.  Gotta put a different scope on the 30-30, this one kisses my eyebrow and that just isn't good for getting tight groups.   DP

[jdwolf]

The 30-30 would be the better gun for black bear, it will work well at considerably more range than the 357.

Tim

  How much more range could I get from a 30-30 as compared to a 357? 

Also,  are the wood stock Handi's more accurate than the synthetic stock models? 

[Badnews Bob]

.357s are good to about 150 yards tops and personally I'd stay inside 100, the .30-30 with the right loads,( such as the leverlution rounds) is close to a 300 yards rifle, I think I'd stay inside of 200 with it myself.

Around here 100 yards is a long ways to see most of the time, They both work well in this woods.

I don't know which is more accurate but I know I much prefer the feel of wood over plastic, I had a syn .243 that shoot well and I really like my syn .22 sportster But I like my wood handies better.

[jdwolf]

.357s are good to about 150 yards tops and personally I'd stay inside 100, the .30-30 with the right loads,( such as the leverlution rounds) is close to a 300 yards rifle, I think I'd stay inside of 200 with it myself.

  I was always under the impression that both a 30-30 and 357 mag rifle were considered "bush guns",  meaning,  100-150 yards tops.  I had no idea a 30-30 Handi was capable of 200 yards or more with the right load. 

What about the lever action 30-30's like Winchester or Marlin?  Are they capable of 200 yards or more? 

[quickdtoo]

Here a comparison of 150gr bullets, flat nose vs spitzer using Sierra data for velocity and Sierra Inf 5.1 software for calculated exterior ballistics. The velocity of the flat nose agrees with what I actually get with Remington factory 150gr Core-lokts. The spitzer bullet helps make the 200yd gun more of a 300yd gun with the 150gr bullets.

Tim


Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. (.30-30) 150 gr. FN at 2300 Feet per Second Flat Nose
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.185   0.224   0.265   0.265   0.265
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2200   1800   1800   1800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2300.0   1761.6   1.53   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2191.0   1598.6   1.46   -0.21   0.58   0.0   0.033420992
50   2101.9   1471.3   1.40   -0.88   2.21   0.0   0.068370289
75   2015.0   1352.0   1.34   -2.03   3.35   0.0   0.104814368
100   1930.2   1240.7   1.29   -3.72   3.96   0.0   0.142845093
125   1847.7   1136.9   1.23   -6.0   3.98   0.0   0.182560092
150   1772.5   1046.2   1.18   -8.91   3.36   0.0   0.224038636
175   1706.7   970.0   1.14   -12.51   2.05   0.0   0.267161424
200   1642.9   898.8   1.09   -16.86   0.0   0.0   0.311954103
225   1581.1   832.5   1.05   -22.01   -2.86   0.0   0.358492863
250   1521.5   770.9   1.01   -28.03   -6.59   0.0   0.406852816
275   1464.3   714.0   0.98   -35.0   -11.25   0.0   0.457105154
300   1409.6   661.7   0.94   -42.97   -16.93   0.0   0.509314749

Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. 150 gr. SPT at 2300 Feet per Second Spitzer
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.336   0.346   0.36   0.36   0.36
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2600   1800   1800   1800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2300.0   1761.6   1.53   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2240.5   1671.7   1.49   -0.21   0.38   0.0   0.033038677
50   2181.9   1585.4   1.45   -0.85   1.83   0.0   0.066959687
75   2124.1   1502.5   1.41   -1.95   2.82   0.0   0.101797753
100   2067.2   1423.1   1.38   -3.53   3.34   0.0   0.137588984
125   2011.3   1347.1   1.34   -5.62   3.34   0.0   0.174370869
150   1956.2   1274.3   1.30   -8.24   2.8   0.0   0.212182421
175   1902.1   1204.8   1.27   -11.43   1.7   0.0   0.251064266
200   1848.9   1138.4   1.23   -15.23   0.0   0.0   0.291058518
225   1796.8   1075.2   1.20   -19.65   -2.34   0.0   0.332208412
250   1747.7   1017.2   1.16   -24.76   -5.35   0.0   0.374532283
275   1699.6   962.0   1.13   -30.57   -9.07   0.0   0.418050304
300   1652.6   909.5   1.10   -37.13   -13.54   0.0   0.462803765

[jdwolf]

Here a comparison of 150gr bullets, flat nose vs spitzer using Sierra data for velocity and Sierra Inf 5.1 software for calculated exterior ballistics. The velocity of the flat nose agrees with what I actually get with Remington factory 150gr Core-lokts. The spitzer bullet helps make the 200yd gun more of a 300yd gun with the 150gr bullets.

Tim


Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. (.30-30) 150 gr. FN at 2300 Feet per Second Flat Nose
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.185   0.224   0.265   0.265   0.265
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2200   1800   1800   1800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2300.0   1761.6   1.53   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2191.0   1598.6   1.46   -0.21   0.58   0.0   0.033420992
50   2101.9   1471.3   1.40   -0.88   2.21   0.0   0.068370289
75   2015.0   1352.0   1.34   -2.03   3.35   0.0   0.104814368
100   1930.2   1240.7   1.29   -3.72   3.96   0.0   0.142845093
125   1847.7   1136.9   1.23   -6.0   3.98   0.0   0.182560092
150   1772.5   1046.2   1.18   -8.91   3.36   0.0   0.224038636
175   1706.7   970.0   1.14   -12.51   2.05   0.0   0.267161424
200   1642.9   898.8   1.09   -16.86   0.0   0.0   0.311954103
225   1581.1   832.5   1.05   -22.01   -2.86   0.0   0.358492863
250   1521.5   770.9   1.01   -28.03   -6.59   0.0   0.406852816
275   1464.3   714.0   0.98   -35.0   -11.25   0.0   0.457105154
300   1409.6   661.7   0.94   -42.97   -16.93   0.0   0.509314749

Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. 150 gr. SPT at 2300 Feet per Second Spitzer
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.336   0.346   0.36   0.36   0.36
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2600   1800   1800   1800
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2300.0   1761.6   1.53   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
25   2240.5   1671.7   1.49   -0.21   0.38   0.0   0.033038677
50   2181.9   1585.4   1.45   -0.85   1.83   0.0   0.066959687
75   2124.1   1502.5   1.41   -1.95   2.82   0.0   0.101797753
100   2067.2   1423.1   1.38   -3.53   3.34   0.0   0.137588984
125   2011.3   1347.1   1.34   -5.62   3.34   0.0   0.174370869
150   1956.2   1274.3   1.30   -8.24   2.8   0.0   0.212182421
175   1902.1   1204.8   1.27   -11.43   1.7   0.0   0.251064266
200   1848.9   1138.4   1.23   -15.23   0.0   0.0   0.291058518
225   1796.8   1075.2   1.20   -19.65   -2.34   0.0   0.332208412
250   1747.7   1017.2   1.16   -24.76   -5.35   0.0   0.374532283
275   1699.6   962.0   1.13   -30.57   -9.07   0.0   0.418050304
300   1652.6   909.5   1.10   -37.13   -13.54   0.0   0.462803765

Tim, 
I'm no Trajectory expert.  I'm not even a novice.  Can you break this down into simple, plain english so even idiots like me can understand?   

[quickdtoo]

In short, the spitzer bullet has slightly more energy at 300yds than the flat nose has at 200yds and almost 250lbs more energy than the flat nose bullet at 300yds, and shoots noticeably flatter with almost 6" less drop.

Tim

[chip-don]

the new bullets bring new life to the 30-30  in nock down power at hunting ranges the 357 can not match a 30-30 and what makes bear hunting fun is they can bite back

[jdwolf]

Okay,  so what I'm hearing here is that the spitzer bullets actually make your 30-30 a flat shooting, long range rifle? 

[quickdtoo]

Just flatter and a bit longer.

Tim

[Saloon slug]

.357s are good to about 150 yards tops and personally I'd stay inside 100, the .30-30 with the right loads,( such as the leverlution rounds) is close to a 300 yards rifle, I think I'd stay inside of 200 with it myself.

  I was always under the impression that both a 30-30 and 357 mag rifle were considered "bush guns",  meaning,  100-150 yards tops.  I had no idea a 30-30 Handi was capable of 200 yards or more with the right load. 

What about the lever action 30-30's like Winchester or Marlin?  Are they capable of 200 yards or more? 

Yes you can use the leveractions out to 200 yards. The limit is the factory sights on the Win and the Marlin but that can be fixed with a good reciever mounted peep sight like the Fool Proof sight. When the 30-30 was introduced it was advertised as a flat shooting long range round with todays modern powders it is even a better round then it was back in 1894.

[jdwolf]

Thanks a lot guys.  I appreciate the info. 

[Badnews Bob]

BTW the .357 are just to much fun to plink with.