30 Caliber for Deer

[akpls]

Oh my......I actually hunt moose, the biggest "deer" of them all, with a 7x57.....and my son with a 7mm08!  What have we been thinking all these years??    For the little stuff we carry the lowly .257 Roberts.  I've taken lots of big game with the 30-06, but it don't make them any more dead than the supposed "lesser" calibers.

[Coyote Hunter]

...
That said, I wonder if the wisdom the grandfather was imparting wasn't true from his perspective. Only in the last few decades has ammunition improved to the point that you can humanely take deer with a 243 and larger caliber. ... Some still think the 243 is inadequate, but not many. Of course, there is no debate about the 6.5 Swede, the 7MM-08, the 25-06, the 270 and a host of others. They are all great for taking deer.

Ron -

Ignoring other options, the .270 Win has been around since 1925 and Partitions since the late 40's.  There is virtually nothing the .30-06 can do to deer that a .270 Win can't do as well or better and Partitions ensured that even after high-velocity impacts a significant portion of the bullet would remain intact.

In other words, if jvs' grandfather was correct from his perspective, his perspective was rather limited.  Had he passed on the advice that the .30's were great deer getters, I would have concurred.  To suggest that nothing smaller should be used was as ridiculous then as it is now.

[STUMPJMPR]

I have always been a .270 man.... I have killed alot of deer with it.... Since I lost it in a flood I replaced it with a 30-30 winchester because my shots are close... The .270 just tore them up too bad in my opinion...

[Bart Solo]

Coyote Hunter,

Good points, well made. 

I was just recalling a debate that raged in the 1960s and 1970s about taking deer with high velocity 243 caliber bullets.  As a grandfather myself  I was trying to give jvs' the benefit of the doubt.   Dead is dead and millions of deer have been humanely taken over the years by "lesser rounds."

[jvs]

Half of you guys are slightly missing the whole point here.  I believe a few of you know exactly what the whole idea of what my Grandfather was trying to say, and at least one of you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

I suggest that you go back to the first post in this thread and read it s-l-o-w-e-r (one word at a time) until it sinks in.  You should really be taking note as to who the teacher is and who the student is, and what this Country was going through at the time this advice was given.  And don't give me any of that .223 crap.

[charles p]

When I was a young hunter in the 60's and 70's, my trusty 742 in 30-06 filled all my needs.  I used 150 grain bullets.  The only other option was 180 which I never used.  Over the years I have added ten other calibers from 243 to 300WSM.  Probably killed more deer with a 25-06 than any other round.  My most recent additions have been 7mm-08 and 308. 

For reasons I can't explain, I read more articles that suggest 165 bullets in 308.  I've killed a train car full of deer with 150's in 30-06.  Wonder why the 165 bullet is now in favor for 30 caliber?

Wish I could ask your grandfather for advice.  Don't think the deer have changed a bit.

[Bart Solo]

I agree I guess I'm one of those who truly "do not understand" what was meant. Please do share and enlighten us. Cuz I really don't get it. What was the point he wanted to get across? 

Half of you guys are slightly missing the whole point here.  I believe a few of you know exactly what the whole idea of what my Grandfather was trying to say, and at least one of you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

I suggest that you go back to the first post in this thread and read it s-l-o-w-e-r (one word at a time) until it sinks in.  You should really be taking note as to who the teacher is and who the student is, and what this Country was going through at the time this advice was given.  And don't give me any of that .223 crap.

Being the guy who probably doesn't know what he is talking about could you share? 

As to what we were going through at the time was the army's move from the 30 caliber to the 223,  but the reasons for that move have nothing to do with hunting.  Sorry, I gave you some of that 223 crap.

[Bart Solo]

  I just got your point.   

Smart man your grandfather.

[federali]

JVS: Your relationship with your grandfather mirrors my own relationship with my hunting elders way back when I started deer hunting at 16 years of age. I hung on their every word, and took their words as gospel as these were the great white hunters who convinced my that my new Savage 99F in .308 could not possibly have much reach and that they could pull off shots with their .270s that I should not attempt. I lost confidence in the 99 and sold it for a bolt action 06 with a 24 inch barrel that was a real pain in the butt to carry through the eastern woods. But, the rifle met with their approval, making me feel more like one of the guys. Now that I've got 50 deer seasons of experience, I have never seen or taken a shot that could not have been made with that Savage 99. I shudda kept it.

I've since taken a bunch of whitetails with a .243, each virtually killed in their tracks. I've seen deer go down more quickly to my 100 grain bullet than deer hit with a 180 grain, 30 caliber bullet. On paper, the 30-06 is certainly more potent than the the .243. The difference is that most 180 grain bullets are intended for game larger than whitetails, are more strongly constructed and take their energy with them out the opposite side of the deer. Now, go to a 150 grain bullet in either an '06 or a .308 and well-hit deer act like they've been hit by a train.

With all due respects to your grandfather, if he insists on 30 caliber or larger for deer, he's entitled to his opinion. In the real world, as many posters have said here, it really doesn't seem to matter. Now, here's a bit of wisdom from me: deer are not hard to kill, they're hard to hit. Over the years, you'll take more deer using rifles that are easy to hit with than by using rifles easy to kill with.

[Casull]

Wow, I don't know what JVS and Swampman have been smoking, but what's with the attack on Coyotehunter?  He didn't say anything disrespectful toward anybody, and they just started in with the attacks.  And, BTW JVS that bs about anyone wanting more than 1 rifle being a Rambo wannabe makes you sound like one of the grabbers.   

[jvs]

Put your mind at ease Casull, I am not a Grabber in disguise.  I just stated a fact that in years past owning more than one rifle was mostly unheard of.   In these days of more disposable income, more people decide to have more than they probably really need.  A grabber would be against you owning any firearms, including Handguns, Autoloading rifles, Pumps, Single-shots, bolt actions and whatever.  Even though I don't have a use for most handguns and what is known as Assualt Weapons, I don't really care what anybody else owns, nor do I criticize anyone for different thinking or tastes.   Some firearms just aren't for me...  It's that simple.

I don't recall anyone picking on Coyote Hunter.  I did see some people disagreeing with him, and he was disagreeing with others, in no uncertain terms.  Overall, I think Coyote Hunter and I are a little more alike than different.  It's just that we may express our life experiences differently.  That being said... the Narcissists' have a tendency to Implode between the times they are Kissing the Mirror and trying to relate to others, as it is proven over and over again in this thread and others.   

That doesn't mean anyone is smoking anything, including Swampman.  Some people really need to take the Blinders off.

[roper]

When I was much younger, and getting closer to my first year of hunting, I can specifically remember my Grandfather saying...

"when ever you go for Deer or other 125 pound+ animal that is roughly the size of a man, a rifle no smaller than a 30 caliber should be used."  Being yooung at the time, I had no reason to question him.  I think he tried to impress on me early on that certain calibers should be used for specific game animals.

Since Vietnam was getting into full swing at the time, I don't know if he was trying to educate me on specifics or just relaying general knowledge.  But those words have always come back to me whenever I got out to look for a new Deer rifle.

My Grandfather liked a 35 Remington 200 gr, my uncles like 308's and 30-06's.  I guess no one in the family ever strayed from my grandfathers advice over time.  Even now I like the 30's for deer. 


I have friends that have 7 mags, 270's (the ballisitic twin of the 30-06) and 264's, even .338 ultras.  I see some lighter calibers at the range around hunting season, like 243's & 25-06.  Some I honestly consider to either be too small or way too big for deer.  And I often wonder if my grandfather was right or if everybody just didn't get the word.  Sometimes it does my heart good to see a youngster at the range, obviously in his early hunting career, toting a .30-30.

I think if I ever felt like I had to buy another deer rifle, I would still get a .30.  It would be strange to get anything else.

I remember back in the 50's when my dads boss would go to Nevada to hunt deer with one of those old NRA sporterized 30-06 so I can fully understand your grandfather thinking.  When I enlisted in the Marines in 1960 I was issued a garand and I took my Co buck with a custom 30-06 this year.

I remember getting into reloading after I got out of the service and we were very limited on bullet selection as compare to what we can get now and with my custom 30-06 with 180gr bullet @ 2970fps/165gr bullet @ 3105fps makes me glad I'm still shooting a 30-06.

I own lots of different calibers like most gun nuts but I have to admitted 30 cal are hard to beat when you can look at a custom 112 gr bullet then get a 220gr bullet.

[kiddekop]

When I was much younger, and getting closer to my first year of hunting, I can specifically remember my Grandfather saying...

"when ever you go for Deer or other 125 pound+ animal that is roughly the size of a man, a rifle no smaller than a 30 caliber should be used."  Being yooung at the time, I had no reason to question him.  I think he tried to impress on me early on that certain calibers should be used for specific game animals.

Since Vietnam was getting into full swing at the time, I don't know if he was trying to educate me on specifics or just relaying general knowledge.  But those words have always come back to me whenever I got out to look for a new Deer rifle.

My Grandfather liked a 35 Remington 200 gr, my uncles like 308's and 30-06's.  I guess no one in the family ever strayed from my grandfathers advice over time.  Even now I like the 30's for deer. 

I have friends that have 7 mags, 270's (the ballisitic twin of the 30-06) and 264's, even .338 ultras.  I see some lighter calibers at the range around hunting season, like 243's & 25-06.  Some I honestly consider to either be too small or way too big for deer.  And I often wonder if my grandfather was right or if everybody just didn't get the word.  Sometimes it does my heart good to see a youngster at the range, obviously in his early hunting career, toting a .30-30.

I think if I ever felt like I had to buy another deer rifle, I would still get a .30.  It would be strange to get anything else.

The 30-06 has killed every species of Big Game on the entire North American Continent in fact it was completed by a hunter in 1924 using a Griffin & Howe Customized 1903 Springfield 30-06.The most popular caliber for Elk hunting this year  in the USA is the 30-06!

[Brithunter]

Hmmm well part of the problem, and I see Elk hunting mentioned a lot in this thread, is that it's not what is effective but it's what the "Guides like" as most Elk hunting it seems is guided and there are those Guides who want ALL hunting to be with a guide  . I enquired about an Elk hunt and one thing that came up was cartridge and calibre selection. Now I have a nice fairly light weight rifle in 7.92mm which of course is 8x57 Mauser and that cartridge is a good one when loaded properly, not like the US manufacturers do it  , I was proposing to use a European commercial load with a 196 grain bullet but several Guides didn't like the idea  so I thought of the 9.3x57mm but got Huh??? what's that?  mention 270 Win and yep with good bullets it will do but a 30-06 is better  so I acquired a 30-06 but then things changed and I couldn't afford the trip  .

Recently I was reading in  Ackley's book the piece by Bowman on hunting and choosing a suitable rifle and chambering and it was enlightening to say the least and I suggest that you read it if you can.

[Graybeard]

I seem to recall Bowman was a fan of the 7MM bore like myself. I think the 7MM Sharp and Hart was one of his favorites but that's going on memory from an awful lot of years ago.