I agree with what Enforcer and John Traveler wrote above, however there is another side to using marginal rounds. Those natives that hunt in the fartherest northern climes go about things much differently than we do (and what is legal for us to do). Also those natives live in close quarters with those bears year around. They know bear behavior and can keep a cool head when things go south. I've got several native friends that live on the North Slope up here and have hunted and worked with them in remote places in close quarters with the big bears, just as I have with the natives on Kodiak and along the gulf coast. They view bears and their behavior a little differently than you or I or that competitive shooter you talked to. I doubt more than a handful of us "Southerners" that have no experience around these bears, especially if you've never hunted one or been charged by one, can keep our cool enough to be really effective with a 223 or 22 Hornet or 375 Win when the brush explodes at 10 yards and the bear is only in sight in glimpses and patches while it is traveling 30 mph with its head low and swinging coming at you like a freight train. You know this bear isn't going to just knock you down and then leave. It isn't going to just stomp on you a couple of times. What it is going to do, more than likely, is grab you by the thigh or leg if you haven't broken it down, and throw you to the ground. It'll rip out of good portion of your thigh or calf, probably taking a sizeable chunk of bone with it. Then it'll go for your head or throat, ripping and tearing at your face, scalp, throat. It'll administer a few haymakers for good measure trying to disembowel you, tearing out ribs, slicing your arms to pieces, then get busy. It won't stop till you are motionless and/or dead. Only then will it feel like the threat is removed. Remember, that bear is charging you because it thinks you are trying to hurt it (or its cubs) and it is trying to protect itself the same as you or I would. Or it is trying to protect its food, the same you or I would protect our home. It can't use a gun to make a quick clean kill, but it can use its strength, its claws and teeth do the damage. If you wound that rascal, he or she is going to be all the more determined really make sure you quit threatening it. Even if it is mortally wounded.
John, the typical far north hunt is not the same that you would encounter on a life saving rushed shooting circumstance in deep alder and devils club along the gulf. Shots are at very short range at UNSUSPECTING animals, not done as we would expect to experience in a STOPPING situation. A 1,000 lb bear unaware of what is lying behind that next iceberg and gets a hole poked through his ribs into the heart is an entirely different animal than one that has hell-bent on killing whatever it is that made it's adrenaline to start pumping in the first place. Those natives can wait for perfect broadside, between the ribs, or through eye or ear shots. Someone stopping an enraged bear at spitting distance can't and has to take whatever shot is present, sometimes having to break large bones and penetrating layers of thick hide, fat, and large muscle groups. The only two ways to be certain in stopping a charging bear is either a CNS shot (brain or spine), or to break the heavy shoulder and leg bones while blowing through the heart and lungs. A brain shot on a charging grizzly or brownie with its dished cranial profile is very difficult, especially in heavy brush. The easier and more often shot that is taken is to break it down by shoulder shots. This may not kill the bear right away, but does STOP it RIGHT NOW. A finishing shot to the immobilized bear's brain is then administered.
A sport or subsistence hunting situation and a life saving stopping situation are two different things. While the original poster did not ask about a stopping situation, it was brought into the mix and I sincerely question the effectiveness of the 375 Win for such practice. I've seen a lot of bear kills. They are amazingly resililent animals and have an incredible tenacity for life when bound and determined to kill what has upset them.
Enforcer,
I don't question the facts that some very large bears were killed with the 22 LR or the 30-40 Krag and others. A lot of other folks have been maimed and killed by using such cartidges also. Shoot, 60+ year old Gene Moe did a brownie in on Kodiak a couple of years ago with a knife while he was being mauled, would that be recommended?
While I'm sure you have shot numerous heads of game and done a ton of ballistic testing, I do believe you are out of your element if you've never faced a charging bear. Paper ballistics are one thing, foot pounds of energy or the Taylor KO or any other power indicator doesn't mean a thing when angle of shot or bone structure or adrenaline in the animal changes. What does matter is putting the bullet where it belongs with a bullet that is constructed well enough and has enough weight for diameter to penetrate deep enough with enough velocity to allow to penetrate deep enough to break the bear down. Period. FPE is more shocking value as anything because it doesn't take into account the bullet's construction nor does it take into account what the bullet has to go through. Neither does TKO or Thornily or any other formula.
WDM Bell killed many elephants with the 7x57 and 303 Brit, but those are not elephant rifles. You would think if the 375 Win or 30-40 Krag or even the good ol' 30-30 (which has definitley taken its share of big bruins) were sensible choices for stopping bears the guides that take clients into the Alaskan bush for big bears would be armed solely with these rifles if they were adequate. They are just as accurate and don't kick as bad. They aren't. They can and have taken bears, but are they really enough gun for you to recommend someone staking their life on them? If you want to do it fine, guys, be my guest. But don't go all over the internet telling people who have no experience with big bears that they are perfectly adequate when they just might face that life saving situation someday and you really have no idea whether those rounds will do the job or not. It is irresponsible and dangerous.
From an Alaskan that lives and works around the big bears and has experience around them, I would recommend a minimum of 338 Win Mag or 8mm Rem Mag or even 35 Whelen for bear PROTECTION (not sport hunting). For the 338, I'd go with a minimum of the 230 Win FailSafe bullet or the 250 grain Premiums like the Nosler Partition or TBBC, etc... The 8 Mag I'd go with 200 or 220 grain Premium bullets. The 35 Whelen the 250 grain Nosler or heavier premium bullets. Better yet would be a 375 H&H with 300 grainers or a 40 cal class cartridge that sends a premium bullet of at least .300 sectional density along at a minimum of 2,000 or 2,150 fps or better. Not because these give you any particular formula value, but because I believe, through my experience and the experience of those Alaskans I know that have faced these situations, that these bullets of that size and weight going at that velocity will do the job everytime provided there is not some manufacturing defect in the bullet or powder or primer.
Enforcer and John, come on up and bring the 223, 22 Hornet, or 375 Win and stop a charging bear with it, you feel it is okay, then do it. Don't recommend it to someone when they have never hunted the big bears when you yourself have no experience or have not witnessed those being used in a stopping situation. Make sure your will is up to date.
