Naval Carriage Project --

[Nasty Jack]

Old carriage (2004) is white oak John Deere pallets -- big, clunky, no trunnions, and mostly a pragmatic means of holding a tube for the BOOM on 4th of July.

1" dia. 3/4" wall drawn over mandrel, seamless, high pressure steam pipe. (That's the story I get from the steel yard where I found it.)  Tube is 12" length. Plug is fitted by a structural engineer's formula -- heat the tube cherry red, cool the plug in liquid nitrogen. Plug is oversized and driven into tube 2" -- when cooled the tube/plug are molecularly bonded.

1 1/8" mild steel trunnions welded from bar stock found in another scrap yard. 2 1/4" length each.

Trunnion caps are 1" X 1/8" mild steel, cold hammer forged in a vise -- which is tricky. Secured by stainless 1 1/2" X 5/16" lag screws w/ alloy washers.

Wheels are poly plastic stock from the local marine/industrial supply. They're 3 1/2" dia., machine faced, and 1/2" center drilled on a lathe. I have no idea what they're intended for. Sold in bulk by weight -- $2 for all four.

Quoin rails are 1/2" angle iron, secured w/ countersunk wood screws.

Stainless eye bolts, brass rings. Washers are some sort of alloy from the marine/industrial supply. They have every sort of naval fastener you might imagine.

Glued and screwed -- joints are mortised and fastened with carpenter screws.

Painted flat black -- high-temp stove paint.

Linseed oil and floor wax finish -- applied w/ steel wool.

I have a table saw, double compound mitre saw, drill press. A lot of the work is hand saw, chisel, rasp, file, hand sanding.

We're charging 500 gr. (35 mm film can) Fg and a paper wad, cannon fuse. It shoots 3 oz lead sinker (from the marine/industrial supply), or C cell batteries. But mostly it's a noise maker.

I need to get photos when it's not raining! (Fat chance on the Oregon Coast!)

[Victor3]

 That's a neat little cannon Jack 

 A couple of items you should consider for safety's sake are to add a cross-pin through the tube/breech plug, and weld the plug at the rear where it meets the tube. Although shrink-fitting is very strong if done properly, it's not considered 100% safe by itself for a cannon breech.

[Double D]

Welcome to the board Jack, nice to have another Oregonian aboard.  That/s were I got my start so to speak...born there.

That doesn't look like pipe to me.  Those big thick walls looks like tubing.  I doubt something that thick is welded.  This is all good. 

I like the carriage you built, looks good.  But I have to tell you, there is something about the John Deere carriage that appeals to me.  I  like it also.

On this board we look to the N-SSA guidelines for the safety standards. You can find l inks to You will find They call for a welded breech plug. Why take a chance, get that breech plug welded.  The N-SSA also recommends one caliber wall thickness over the breech.

One thing that does really concerns me is your load. The recommend safe maximum load is 190 grains. Take a look at our post stuck to the top of the board called safe loads and cannon plans.

 

[Nasty Jack]

OK -- Yeah, I agree, pin and weld the plug. That's the standard protocol. You'll get no argument from me on here on that one.

I'm shooting blanks 99.99% of the time. Not really interested in shooting projectiles.

It's "tubing" -- 3/4" wall on 1" dia. tube. Drawn over mandrel, so it's "forged" and not "cast." No seams, no welds. And it's a steel alloy, although I have no sort of data on what sort of alloy. I swap the terms "tube" and "pipe" a lot. It's not my field.

The plug runs in the breech 2" -- You can see the touch-hole in the photos. The touch-hole sits at the edge of the breech plug. The formula for plug dia. and driving the plug into the breech was provided by a certified structural engineer. There's literally a "weld" on the molecular plane between the plug and the breech.

Trust me on this one. We didn't just "guesstimate" on the dimensions and fitting of the breech plug.

500 gr. charge Fg. That's a BLANK charge. Three to six squares of TP over the powder. The tube is 12" -- less 2" for the plug, less 2" for the charge and wad. So, 8" run on a 1" tube. All the "poop" from the boom shoots out the front end.

There's no "back pressure" to speak of. 3/4" forged wall is going to manage the pressure in any case. We've run cyrogenic and X ray structural analysis on a similar prototype with much, heavier loads (Like 1200 gr. and a half pound column of lead ball.) No strain on the tube, no stress on the breech plug.

DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!  -- We have a structural engineer and some testing facilities to play with on this cannon. Certified structural engineer testing lab, with a certified structural engineer running the show.

I rarely shoot this with a projectile. When I do shoot a projectile, it's a 1" dia. lead ball, and about 200 gr. Fg.

And we don't stand around while the fuse is burning.

-------------------------

Unfortunately, the old carriage got sacrificed to the "Salvage Gods."

I'm looking for a larger cannon. Cannon Mania has some decent looking tubes, but I'm not impressed with their carriages. I just don't like their proportions.

I may buy one of their tubes and then build my own carriage -- but I'm barely set up for carriage production.

This guy from LandFallNavigation sort of appeals, but I'd really like to see something with a tube in the 2" bore range and about 24" length.

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/mbpc1.html

I'd be willing to run $2,500 on a decent cannon, pre-finished kit would be ideal.

 

[Double D]

Take a look at our sponsors if you want to buy a cannnon you will find them in the Sponsor sticky at the top of the board.  One of them should be able to provide you with you want.

Below the sponsor post you will also find an internet list of various suppliers of cannons found on the Internet.   One supplier you will not find listed on that list is Cannoln Mania.  If you do a search of this board for Cannon Mania you will find a lot of posts about them. But before you send them any money I strongly suggest you read each of the posts.

Before you buy that cannon from Land fall ask them three questions. 1. will they provide a copy of the National Park regulation on cannon construction? 2. Describe the material used to construct the line; is it seamless or welded seam? 3. Describe the construction of the breech plug?

You might want to print out section ten of the  NSSA rules on the construction of cannon breech plugs and liners  http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/RULES/Rules1-2006.pdf and run it by your engineer and see what he has to say. Section ten starts on PDF page 67 of 194.

Just so you won't be confused, the NSSA Rules call for a sweat fit plug.  To most of us sweat fit means soldering.  Apparently when the N-SSA rule was origninally written it meant shrink fit.  Your breech plug is shrink fit, which is good.  One of our regulars here is working with the N-SSA to get that term defined more clearly.

[Double D]

I was just looking through the Land Fall's website and it appears that they are selling cannons form one of our sponsers DUCK ISLAND CANNON WORKS LLC & RBG CANNONS

[Victor3]

  $2500 will buy you a lot of cannon. I'd be looking at bronze if I had that kind of disposable income.

 However, if you want a 2" bore all steel cannon (or just a barrel, if you like) that won't break the bank you might want to check out one of the sponsors here; Carpenter's Replica Artillery. Dom makes nice stuff . If you don't see what you want on his website, ask him what he can do for you. He's made custom items for several of us here.

[lendi]

Jack,
the carriages from landfall navigation are make by duck island cannon works.  you can see our work on our website located on the sponsor page.  send me an email through the web site if you have any questions.
len
DICW

[Nasty Jack]

FINALLY ! ! !

A site where people understand what they're talking about! Most of what I know about cannon is from browsing online -- looking at photos, searching for drawings, specs.

Our whole design/safety paradigm in this tube derives from what we know about muzzle loaders -- forged steel barrel, thick wall tube, short bore to address back-pressure.

We run the muzzle loader "rule of thumb" on loads when shooting a projectile. First, we shoot ball -- I have "issues" with C-Cell batteries. Then 1.5 X the bore dia. in grains. So a 1" bore runs a charge of 150 gr.

But we weren't getting  the "cannon boom" from 150 gr. when shooting blanks. We found some specs -- here and elsewhere -- suggesting a 2 oz max for a 1" bore, and we pretty much halved that at 500 gr. which is a 35 mm film can.

As noted, we ran some lab tests and heavy proof charges on a prototype. First week out we were shooting 1" dia. lead "cannonball" fishing sinkers. But they get spendy, and we much more enjoy the big boom than actually shooting projectiles.

It's a noise maker, a salute cannon.

Nearby Ft. Stevens State Park (Hammond Oregon on the coast) has some 10" Rodmans. They shoot those for special ocaissions -- 4th of July, Labor Day. Park Service says I can get involved in that operation . . . Ohhhhhhh goodie!

I was looking at Duck Island . . . 

What really stirred my soul was the Parrot Gun built by Hatcher --

http://www.hatchergun.com/blkpwdrcannon.htm

And I really wish Ol' "Huricane" (sic) were up for adoption --