Greybeard...how's your 45 FA M97?

[Lee Robinson]

Any update? What load are you shooting and how is the accuracy?

[Graybeard]

It shoots better than my eyes and unsteady hands allow. I have a scope base/rings for it and need to get it mounted up and scope the rascal so I can see how well it not me shoots and develop the best loads for it.

To be honest I've not fired it a single time this year that I can recall. I've neglected my handguns this year severely. I've mostly been shooting skeet and the early part of the year I was getting rifles ready for the OK PD shoot. I hope to get back to it this month.

As to loads danged if I can even remember what I've worked up from memory. I think I have a box in the bedroom so I'll go get them and see if it has the receipe I've been using in it the most listed. Yeah it did. The load is: 19.5 grains of 2400 under Hornady 250 grain JHPs. I use both the newer XTP-HP and the older pre-XTP interchangeably in this load and both seem to perform about the same. I'm using Winchester LP primers and cases are a mix of Hornady, RP, BHA and Starline. Starline makes the BHA cases. In an iron sighted handgun I seldom can tell the difference in accuracy with mixed lots of cases as I do in scope sighted rifles.

I have some bullets Lloyd sent me from the RCBS 270 SAA mould I plan to try over aboutr 17.5 grains of 2400 as a beginning load which might end up being the load I stay with if it shoots as I expect it to. If it does I'll have to pick me up a mould to cast them I guess.

Really this FA97 like all other FA revolvers I've had shoot far more accurately than I do and if the load is half way uniform in performance they universally shoot well. I will have to scope it and bench it to determine what load it likes best as it shoots just about everything I've fed it better than I shoot an iron sight handgun these days.

[Lee Robinson]

Thanks for the info. Let me know what YOU find with the 2400.

I have done a little comparing between the FA m97 in 45 colt to a SS Ruger Bisley that I picked up in 45 Colt. The Ruger was new. It shoots the colt loads VERY WELL and also has a 45 ACP cylinder. I have not used the ACP cylinder yet.

I hate to say it, but as of now, the undoctored up RUGER (as it will get a trigger job and a few other things done soon) came straight out of the box with a less than ideal trigger and a little play in the cylinder but it still shoots even a tighter than my bank vault tight FA...so I figured I would ask about your favorite load in the FA. I have never shot 2400 and it is about one of the most famous powders so I need to give it a try. So far, the FA has mostly had H110 loads and some Universal loads fired through her. I do get a good group every now and then with her, but typically my group is about twice the size obtained from the much cheaper RUGER.

So far, I haven't found a load that the RUGER won't shoot exceptionally well. The load I shot tonight out of it 24 gr of H110 under a 270 gr Keith shot extremely well and when 1240-1260 fps...5 were in 1 hole. The first shot was only 1 inch away from the other 5. I will upload a photo of the pattern later...as we are getting ready for dinner now.

I did get some good shots out of the FA with with keith also when I trimmed the brass but if memory serves me correctly, but I also tried a smaller lead bullet of 230 gr with full length brass, and it didn't like the 230 grain lead truncated cone lead bullets...as they had about a 4-5 inch group off a rest at 25 yards...which is totally unacceptable IMO.

Going faster didn't improve accuracy of the 250 gr Hornady XTP in the FA M97...as I was at 1200-1250 loading 25.5 gr of H110...and we bumped it up to the "minimal load" of 25.7 gr and it seemed to me that the group grew in size slightly. So, perhaps the 2400 around 1000-1100 or so may work well. I will let you know what I find out and would also like to hear your results as well.

I am also going to try the starting load of 20 gr of 4227 and work my way up to probably around 23 gr (max load of 4227 is over 24 gr) and see how that powder performs for me.

I am pleased that the RUGER is working so well for me, but I would like to see the same thing out of the FA. I should have these other tests done within the week...and I will let you know what I find out.

[Lloyd Smale]

lee if you get to discusted with that 97 ive got an 83 in 454 7.5 inch magnaported gun with a scope mount and rings that i would work out a trade for with you.

[Ken ONeill]

If you're using the 250 XTP in that 97, start with 17.5 gr. of 2400, and CCI 350's with a good crimp. Work your way up a bit to the Ruger max. of about 19-19.5 gr., if you need to, or drop down to about 17 gr.  Mine stays a bit over an inch @ 25 yds. with 17.5...about 1125 fps from a 5 1/2" barrel.

[Lee Robinson]

I hate to do it, but I may have to file down the front sight a bit to improve the sight picture. It is a fixed sighted gun and as of now the sight is untouched and full height. They told me that they do make them a little tall so a person can bring it down if needed...as we can bring it down but we can't bring it up so to speak.

Being everything is hitting at LEAST 3" low at 25 yards...and some loads 4 inches low or more... I think I will file just enough to bring the impact up 2" or so...for now...and do some more shooting to see if that helps me just in case I am doing some "compensating" for this picture and adding more variables to the shooting. I have been really too busy this week to do any more testing...but maybe this weekend I can do some more...oh, the chores that need to be done. 

Lloyd, I am not interested in getting rid of it just yet. Besides, it has my last name on the backstrap.

[MarkH]

That or a heavier bullet ... filing them down is not too bad.  Just follow the contour and go slowly.  I take a dremel to the range.

[Lee Robinson]

well...you can't get any heavier than a 270 Keith in the M97.

[MarkH]

I shoot a 300 gr WFN or WFNGC routinely in the 97.  And Speer makes a 300 gr jacketed with a dual crimp groove that works in the 97.

My 45 Colt 97's are very accurate guns ... actually, all of them have been ... fixed sights are a little more difficult for me to shoot well, though.

Mine particularly like the 250 gr Nosler Sporting Hollowpoint pushed to about 1200 fps with 4227.  I have obtained some exceptional groups with H110 as well ... the best with Lil Gun, but I won't use it anymore.  I'm using HS6 right now in 454 brass with this bullet and it is so accurate that I will try it in the 45 Colt.

Be patient.  Shooting the 97's takes some getting used to.

[IronAir]

Mark, hello

What did you find objectionable about the Lil'gun powder?  I remember one of the shotgun shooters at my club saying that it was temperature sensitive, but I have not had any problems myself.

On another note, and a little off topic, but not really.  How would you guys feel about a model 97 cylinder that was chambered for shortened 45 colt brass?  It could be a Freedom Arms proprietary round made especially for shooting longer bullets in the M97.  If you trim 45 colt brass back to 1.200 you can use most every bullet out there, because nose to crimp is usually .400 or less.

I know of at least one shooter personally that chose a 44 special over 45 colt in his M97 because of limited bullet choices.  I wasn't as smart as him.  He said if there was a 45 Schofield cylinder, he may have considered it, but I don't think we have to go that short.

Any input?  I know loading data would be one problem, but can you guys think of any others, or could this project have a future?

[Lloyd Smale]

I would guess his problem with using lil gun comes from the fact that it is about the worst powder there is when it comes to forcing cone errosion.

[MarkH]

That's right, Lloyd.

I expect if there was enough demand, FA might do a Schofield aux. cylinder ... but I don't think there is much point.  I wouldn't mind being able to shoot regular Keith bullets in the 45, sure, but there are still plenty of bullet choices within the weight range that is really appropriate for such a compact gun.  "Commercial" SWC's tend to be very accurate....such as Oregon Trail, and Laser Cast.

[paul105]

Tim Sundles, (Buffalo Bore Ammo owner) posted his experience using Schofield brass with 325gr LFNs and 300gr Speer JSPs on the Sixshooter Comunity website.  He was getting 1,300 fps out of his 5 ½” FA97.   He said “Although 45 Scholfield brass is shorter than needed, it was/is easier than trimming” 1,000 cases.  When asked what he thought the pressure of this load was, he responded “Dont know, but by measuring brass and looking at fired primers, it is not alarming in any way.”   I think Mark has previously mentioned that, in his opinion, this load is hotter than he was willing use in his guns.


Using .45 Colt brass, I’ve loaded the Montana Bullet Works RCBS 300gr SWCGC (actual weight 315gr) to 1,130 fps in my 4 ¼” FA97 (this load is a handful).  When crimped in the crimp grove, this bullet is right at the face of the cylinder.  Due to the recoil, and possible bullet jump, I crimp this bullet over the front drive band.  This load shoots to the same POI as the RCBS 270gr SAA at 915 fps, which is my standard load in the M97, (also crimped over the front drive band).

You can also load the Speer 300gr JSP (using the crimp grove closest to the nose).  Buffalo Bore offers just such a load for the FA97:

Item 3D: 300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1200 fps / M.E. 959 ft. lbs.) (Loaded to shorter length 1.585 inch specifically for Freedom
Arms Model 97 .45 Colt - Big game up to 800 lbs.)

For all practical purposes, the 270gr SAA at 900 fps should be adequate for about 99% of any situation you may encounter.

I guess what I’m getting at is that you can work around the short cyl in the . 45 Colt M97 if you really need to.   

These are very compact, powerful handguns and there aren’t many situations where I would feel undergunned with one in .45 Colt.

[IronAir]

I had not heard about the forcing cone erosion problems with lil'gun, and have not shot enough rounds with it to notice myself, so thank you for that info.  I have noticed that my barrel gets pretty darn hot after shooting a few cylinders full of that stuff though.

I guess I am just being too anal about the chamber length thing.  I did some measuring on mine, and found that my 270 SAA load is jumping about .080 from the mouth of the case to the start of the throat.  No worse than shooting 38s in a 357, or 45s in a 454 I guess.

My way of thinking (which is probably wrong) is that for the best accuracy, you would want the front driving band in the throat, for support and alignment.  Many of you are crimping over the front driving band of these longer bullets, and still obtaining good accuracy, so obviously my thinking is flawed.