Author Topic: pack rifle  (Read 2672 times)

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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2008, 03:27:01 PM »
LaOtto Man is makin a LaOtto sense.  He is spot on with the larger bores making the barrel lighter.  For your style of hunting, I think that 357, 44mag or handloaded 45 colt would be great.  The 2.5 power scopes work really well, I have several of the Weavers old and new.  On my 94 Win Trapper in 45 Colt I'm running an old 1.5 Weaver that is super quick to get on target, almost the same as a red dot.  DP
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Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline drewD

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2008, 07:47:25 PM »
thank you all for all of your suggestions. Do you think the survivor stock would weigh less than a standard monte carlo? Would it put you up high enough to use a scope?

Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2008, 01:35:41 AM »
Any of the "plastic stocks" would be lighter than the original wood...

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2008, 03:16:23 AM »
Survivor Stock set would be my choice for a pack rifle.  LOP is about 1" shorter, and you can store stuff in the buttstock. 
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Swampman

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2008, 03:17:54 AM »
Any of the "plastic stocks" would be lighter than the original wood...

But your gun will not be as accurate.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2008, 03:29:31 AM »
I think accuracy was sacrificed when the word went out that a 100 yard lightweight pack rifle was in the works.  Not to say that it won't be reasonably accurate for the build/situation.

If I were going to do a pack rifle for where I live, It would be an m4.  5lbs, accurate and the .223 chambering would kill anything I wanted to here in MO w/ 68 grainers... :)  Not to mention collapisble stock :)
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Swampman

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2008, 03:31:27 AM »
I have no use for black rifles for hunting.  They are very bad for our public image IMO.

They are fine for the range.  I use to shoot High Power matches with mine
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2008, 03:39:27 AM »
That's really a matter of opinion, but we should stick to the topic on this one for pack rifles.  Though a new thread on the black rifle would be neat to see opinons on i think... :D
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2008, 03:43:51 AM »
Sam,
I think an M4 would be too expensive for a pack rifle in my opinion... I would want something durable that could be used as a club or boat paddle if it came to that.  A $240 Handi would fit this bill perfectly....

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2008, 03:47:30 AM »
Lol... I see your point :D... A person tends to want to baby those 650-1200.00 guns lol...
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline drewD

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2008, 04:42:32 AM »
I don't see how using synthetic stocks sacrifices accuracy? Can someone enlighten me?

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2008, 05:49:03 AM »
I can't speak for the man who said it, but the only reason it would is the wieght issue... Which really isn't an issue if you shy away from the calibers w/ a lot of "punch".  I've seen 5lb. m4's shoot 1/2 groups.  Its all in your form and not developing a "flinch" in your shooting practices.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Tallwalker

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2008, 06:20:57 AM »
I'm not sure how a plastic forend would affect accuracy on a Handi. I do know that the standard molded plastic stocks on many rifles now ( one piece stocks mostly) will not maintain pressure on a barrel when they  get warm, and can move around in the weather a bit. Buttstock fit is obviously important too, but if the fit is OK, I see no problems with the plastic. I do like the plastic stock that NEF is using on the standard Handi's.

Offline Swampman

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2008, 06:31:31 AM »
I don't see how using synthetic stocks sacrifices accuracy? Can someone enlighten me?

The plastic stocked Handis never quite group like the wood stocked versions do.  Some of the versions of the plastic stocks make it impossible to get a good cheek weld.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline tykempster

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 12:34:11 PM »
A 5 lb 45-70 with 300 grain bullets at 1800 fps ain't gonna kick that bad.  I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 45 colt at 100 yards, but that is just me.  I have a 6.5 lb Marlin guide gun at 300 grain bullets at 2300 fps from that short little barrel aren't kicking that hard, knock 500 fps off and it will be a pussycat.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2008, 11:44:25 AM »
LaOtto Man is making a LaOtto sense.  He is spot on with the larger bores making the barrel lighter.  For your style of hunting, I think that 357, 44mag or hand-loaded 45 colt would be great.  The 2.5 power scopes work really well, I have several of the Weavers old and new.  On my 94 Win Trapper in 45 Colt I'm running an old 1.5 Weaver that is super quick to get on target, almost the same as a red dot.  DP

 This is my advice as well. I would stay away from the 30-30 if your gonna chop the barrel. I own a couple Marlins with 16" barrels in 30-30 and let me day they are LOUD!!! The 45-70 wouldn't be to awful if it wasn't loaded "up".

I forgot to ask if you hand-load... That makes a difference for the 45Colt and 357MAXI.

 I would say the 44 followed by hand loaded 45 Colt for store bought, off the shelf guns. My personal favorite the 357MAXI is a great choice, but you need to make one of those as well as hand-load for it...

Good luck and let us know what you end up with!!

 CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2008, 12:26:40 PM »
Just so those that aren't aware, factory 357 Maxi ammo is available, GBO sponsor Reed's carries it as well as any Dan Wesson dealer.  I shot the Dan Wesson Maxi ammo in mine before I rechambered it to 35 Remington, it made a nice 1" group at 100yds the first and only time I shot it, sold the remaining ammo to another member here after I had the rechamber done. The 357 Maxi was a factory available offering for a year or two from H&R, but rechambering is the best alternative to trying to find one of em, it can be done by hand with a rented reamer.  ;)

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2008, 02:23:17 PM »
Just so those that aren't aware, factory 357 Maxi ammo is available, GBO sponsor Reed's carries it as well as any Dan Wesson dealer.  I shot the Dan Wesson Maxi ammo in mine before I re-chambered it to 35 Remington, it made a nice 1" group at 100yds the first and only time I shot it, sold the remaining ammo to another member here after I had the re-chamber done. The 357 Maxi was a factory available offering for a year or two from H&R, but re-chambering is the best alternative to trying to find one of em, it can be done by hand with a rented reamer.  ;)

Tim

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 Good to know Quick!!

 I knew it as I have herd you say it before!!   ::) ::)
 As Tim said it a simple operation for transform a 357Mag to 357MAXI, as the MAXI is simply a longer case loaded to higher pressures.

CW
 
As for the factory Maxi, I am lucky enough to have one myself!!! :o ;D

CW
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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2008, 04:18:34 PM »
Don't forget some of us are loading DW 360 in our long chambered 357 mags. ain't quite maxi but it's gettin close. Kurt
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Offline Tencubed

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2008, 01:51:53 PM »
I have a TC with a 16" 45-70 bbl that weighs in under five pounds loaded with three extra rounds in the stock.  Recoil and blast are severe and require practice to come to terms with when using heavy loads.  With mild loads it's a hoot to shoot.  One big advantage of this rifle is the ability to shoot 410 shotgun shells for close in work on small game for the pot.  This is the rifle I carry on the quad when alone in the mountains and wanting a rifle that has good stopping ability.

With all that being said I would suggest you consider the 44 Mag pistol cartridge for your use.  Way less recoil and muzzle blast and pleasant to shoot all day long.  Same thing can be said about the 357 which has a reputation for being a good stopper as has been mentioned. 

While I'm a big fan of the 30-30 I would consider the velocity loss with a 16" barrel very carefully prior to choosing this round.  I don't have any numbers but suspect it may impact the old reliable round quite a bit.

Mike

The super light weight big bores have their place but shooting a lot with them will punish you quite a bit.

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Offline tykempster

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2008, 03:18:47 PM »
Tencubed has my kind of gun!  I may make something like that off the H&R action...

Offline JPShelton

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Re: pack rifle
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2008, 10:23:16 PM »
I want a rifle that I can pack all day and not feel like I've been toting a howitzer with me on the trail.....

I want something capable of a 100 yard shot..... 

With the rifle weighing as little as possible recoil is the next concern. I'm not afraid of recoil but I don't want something that is gonna be punishing to shoot either. What are y'alls suggestions?

I wanted these things from my main hunting rifle, too.  That is one of the reasons why I purchsed my Handi-Rifle.

It is much lighter, more compact, and more dynamic handling than the CZ 550 that I relied upon for the past 9 years.  My Handi is the standard configuration with the standard taper barrel.  Scoped with the 3 X 9 glass that it currently wears, it balances right at the hinge pin.  Target aquisition is rapid because of this, but there is enough weight forward to insure muzzle stability under field conditions.

Out in California, I used a T/C Contender Carbine in .223 for blacktails for several seasons.  That thing was definitely about as easy to pack as a rifle could be, and this was important because I frequently hunted in designated wilderness areas where backpacking in was part of the experience.  The .223 was entirely adequate for the deer I shot, and the controlled expansion rounds I used allowed me to shoot smaller game for the pot on extended pack outings without damaging them beyond edibility.  I liked that flexability.  The downfall of the Contender Carbine was its ultralight weight.  It was very difficult to shoot accurately under the field conditions that I sometimes faced -shooting across windy draws at deer over 100 yards away.

My Handi Rifle weighs a little more, but aside from that, it is every bit as "packable" as my Contender Carbine was.  It is also more accurate under all conditions and much easier to shoot accurately in the field.

Given my past experience using the .223 on blacktails and California mule deer, as well as feral goats and other similarly sized game, caliber choice for me was a no-brainer, especially considering the 1:9 twist that Handi-Rifles in .223 now come with.  I wanted an accurate round that was economical and pleasant to shoot in a short, light rifle, with enough power to take light, thin-skinned game at reasonable ranges, and in my experience, the .223 with proper bullets delivers that performance combination.

Even with the mild mannered .223, I don't think that I would personally want the muzzle of my rifle five or six inches closer to my face than it already is with my 22" barreled Handi-Rifle, and since mine delivers the M.O.A. accuracy I was hoping for as is, I would be extremely reluctant to screw around with it for fear that I might end up with less precision by messing about with it.

I know that the topic of using the .223 on "big game" is a controversial one.  There are deer hunting situations where I would want something else, too.  But for the deer that I actually hunt under the conditions that actually hunt them under, the .223 has proven to me to be all the cartridge I require.  It cleanly kills the size class of animals that I use it on, generally delivering through and through penetration while doing so, and droping the animals right where they stood when they took the hit. 

Whether here in the Cherokee Nation or the areas I like to hunt in California, most of the deer I encounter are under 150 pounds and are shot at distances under 150 yards, so for most of the hunting that I do, the .223 with 60 grain Partitions or 62 TSXs fired out of a 1:9 twist barrel is all the cartridge I need.  I have taken mule deer up to 200 pounds with round without wishing for something bigger in my chamber and the results were one shot, "dead right there" drops.  In the 31 years that I've been deer hunting, the longest shot I recall making on a game animal was a 275 yard poke.  The fact that I can generally manage to get fairly close to game probably has a lot to do with the satisfactory results I've had with the little .223 round.

On paper, I know the .243 is supposed to offer more killing power.  I used a .243 M-98 Mauser for a while and I don't think it killed the deer I shot any deader than the .223 did or would have under the same conditions.  I think that premium bullets like TSXs and Partions now available in .224" largely bridge any gap that used to exist between the .223 and .243 where the take of light, thin-skinned game is concerned.

-JP