Hunting ethics

[broken arrow]

So what's the worst game violation you've seen? Most of the hunters I have encountered are pretty good. I've had a couple of run-ins with trespassers but nothing too serious yet. I'll admit to not wearing blaze on our farm or on my lease, but that's my worst offense and yes, I know it's stupid since I have had poachers in the past. I've been reading alot about killing deer with small-bore rifles and was curious as to how many of you have seen, or have gone beyond that yourself. Spotlighting, road shooting, taking deer out of season etc... This should garner heated debate, and rightfully so.

[THE#1hunter]

Ill be the first to answer, I used a .222 for deer :oops: , the worst I have seen was ppl at a state game land... shooting squirrels, and just chucking them...

[alpini]

There's so many of them, where do you begin?
 I guess the one that erks me the most is to see ATVs is the backcountry. I mean in the wilderness areas just before opening day, it appears these guys never leave the saddle.
   Poachers always bugs me. I've more than a few headless big bodied mule deer. I've ran into some in the middle of the night leaning up against their trucks with rifle on the hood, alone in some open meadow waiting.
  I know people that........
 Man, the list goes on and on.

[Colville]

Sometimes it isn't even something illegal. I hunted an October season and the temperatures where high. It was bright sunny and 60 to 65 by 4:00PM. Camps were maybe 10 miles from the nearest town. A camp near mine the guy had shot his deer at 8:00am. His camp was not in the trees. they used a plank hook up to their trailer to hang the deer.  That deer was hung by the head for 3 days in the sun at day temp lows of 55 to 60.  By the time they left there was not damn thing there worth eating. The town and Ice or a locker was 20 mins away.

Colville

[Fightin Creek Slim]

I had an Oregon Elk hunt spoiled by the Atv hunters last year. The area that I was hunting was a familiar one though I had not hunted it in a few years. I picked a spot above a game trail to set up. I was about three miles from the nearest BLM road. I made it out to my spot at 4:00 am and was set up waiting for daylight. I was fairly well concealed by natural camoflage. Just before daylight the stream of ATV's began and continued all day long roaring up and down the game trail. A pair of hunters on foot passed within five yards of me without even seeing me until I stood up and began moving around. I could hear them talking and making a lot of racket long before they came into view. The worst part came when a group of three hunters on Atvs decided to stop on the trail and hold a mini convention right in the middle of the trail below my setup. I had traveled six hundred miles from home to make this hunt and my time in the woods was limited. Seemed like i was the only one in the woods that day who was staying still and being quiet. The rest made enough noise to spook all of the game into the next county.

[Graybeard]

Not sure if I should toss this one in as the WORST but it is right up there for me because of the likely effect it had on my personal hunt.

Went to Colorado on a mule deer hunt with a guy. Went in my Bronco which happened to lose a tranny on the trip and failed to come back home from there for a full month. But that's nothing to do with the story so on to it.

Because I was without transportation due to my Bronco breaking I had to either hitch a ride with someone or walk from the cabin to hunt. I tried both. The fellow I went with who rode in MY truck and pull his four wheeler behind it shot his buck on opening morning. First buck he saw I think. Small (read tiny) 4x4. Since he wasn't on land he was legally allowed to hunt or at least was unsure he was on legal ground he cut off the head and cape and left the rest to rot in the field. Didn't even gut it. Just left it lay.

So with his hunt over and knowing I had no transportation did he offer me his four wheeler? Nope! He kept on hunting even with no more tags to fill. First morning I went with an old guy who was a dentist from CA I think. He didn't stay put an hour before he was back for me to move to another spot. Then again within an hour he was ready to stop still hunting and road hunt which I had no desire to do. So I drove him in his Jeep. That afternoon I had him drop me off at a water hole a LONG way from camp. Just as the sun dropped down to where it was time for deer to start coming in he came back for me blowing his horn. Deer had just started coming into the water hole. bye-bye first day.

Second day he went road hunting with the gand in a four door pick up truck. Shooters at each window and more in the bed in chairs. He loaned me his Jeep and I actually had a nice morning hunt. Saw only does tho. Walked from camp that afternoon to a place that looked good but wasn't.

Third morning still with no wheels I decide to walk to a water hole I found within walking distance of camp. So guess who shows up about 15 minutes after I get in place? BOTH of them. The guy I brought out who has no tag left and the guy with the Jeep. They stand down in front of my location near the water hole for 15-20 minutes discussing what to do then split and walk off. Turns out the guy with no tag left circled behind me. Yes he knew where I was. Then shot at a buck that was headed right toward me. He shot off two tines from the rack. The biggest deer seen on the entire hunt by the way. How do I know? It was later killed by another of rthe hunters minus the two tines he shot off it. Turned out it ran back the way it had come and being disoriented laid down right on the side of the road and one of the guys riding in the truck saw and shot it.

So that's my story of bad hunting ethics and a busted hunt.

GB

[Ron T.]

WOW, Bill… that sounds like the “hunt from he**”!!!!!!!

My worst big game hunt was the 2nd time I went big game hunting out to Colorado in 1962.  I went with three other guys in a school bus converted into a camper that would sleep four people.  Two of the guys owned itÂ… and the 3rd guy and me were “guests” of the first two fellas.

I was a young & dumb 26 year old fella on my 2nd big game hunting trip, but IÂ’d been hunting small game since I was 12 years old.  My “host”, Harold, seemed like a really nice guy at homeÂ… a pipe-smoking, easy-going kind of guy, but once the bus was loaded and we were on our way, all I heard out of HaroldÂ’s mouth was the “F-word” connected to every sentence.  I cussed a little now and then, but this was a never ending stream of “F-this, F-that”.  After a while, it got tiresome but I tried to ignore it.

The day before opening day, Harold went with me on a scouting trip in the mountains near Rifle, Colorado.  We were walking along a trout stream while I looked at the fish when I saw a young porcupine come waddling out of the dense woods.  He didnÂ’t seem to be concerned about two humans standing thereÂ… and I guessed he might have never seen a human being before.  He was kind of a cute little fella.

I turned back to look at the trout and heard a “whump.. whumpÂ… whump”.  I turned around and saw Harold picking up the 10 lb. rock over his head for the 4th time and crashing it down on the young porcupine again and againÂ… finally killing it.

As any woodsman knows, you NEVER kill a porcupine in the deep woods because itÂ’s the ONLY animal in the woods an unarmed man can catch and kill with a club thereby possibly securing something to eatÂ… and the lost hunterÂ’s eventual survival.  I wasnÂ’t happy & asked Harold why he killed it.  He mumbled something about “it being there”.

The next morning, the first day of the elk season, Harold and I climbed up a big hill and he sat about 150 yards to my right on the side of the steep hill on the mountain.   Just after daylight, I heard a shot far off to my left over the ridge in front of me, then about 5 minutes later, I saw a large, dark animal come up over the ridge about 200 yards to my left and start moving down, then along the trail on the hillside at my level and about 150 yards across from me.  I kept watching the elk as he came closer, moving from my left to my right, to being directly across on the opposite hillside from me, I thought I could see “something”, but I couldnÂ’t make out any antlers for SURE looking through the dim morning light through my scope.

Finally, about the time the elk got directly across from me approximately 100 yards away,  I could make out his antlers, so raised my Model 70, .338 Win. Magnum, took aim through the scope and began my trigger squeeze.

Suddenly, I was shocked hear a rifle go off and it wasnÂ’t mineÂ… it was Harold.  He had shot at the elk which was directly in front of meÂ… an elk he could barely see.  Then I heard him yellÂ…. “I think I hit itÂ… I THINK itÂ’s a bull!!!”

He THOUGHT it was a bull???  We did NOT have a “cow elk” license and he THOUGHT it was a bull elk!!!  The S.O.B. had taken a 250 yard shot and shot the elk right out from in front of me (and he KNEW I was there)Â… and he THOUGHT it was a bull?

I scrambled down the hill, across the gully and up the opposite hillÂ… and, being 15 years younger, got up on the trail directly across from my stand before Harold got there.  After moving down the trail a few yards, I found hair and bloodÂ… than I ran into the elk which rose up and started to hobble down the trail, dragging itÂ’s shot-broken rear leg behind it.  I raised my rifle and put the crosshairs on the back of the elkÂ’s head where it joined the neck to put it out of itÂ’s misery, flipped the safety off, touched the trigger and MY SCOPE WENT BLANK!

As I began to lower my rifle, I heard HaroldÂ’s rifle ring out just in front of me as he shot the elk in the back of the head at 10 yards.  Harold had come up on the trial a few feet in front of me, stood up right in front of my rifle and his head “blanked out” my scope just as I touched my rifleÂ’s trigger to shoot.

When I realized what had happen, my knees started shaking at the prospects of what ALMOST happened!

I was getting really disgusted with HaroldÂ… but I said nothing.  But I decided to hunt AWAY from Harold and hoped heÂ’d keep his distance.

A few days later, I was sitting up on a hillside a few hundred yards above a beautiful valley and I saw someone walking through the valley.  I put my binoculars on the figure and, it was Harold.

He disappeared into a clump of treesÂ… and a moment later, I hear a shot.  Thinking he got a mule deer that was bedded up in the grove of trees, I got up, climbed down the ridge to the valley and walked over to the grove of trees where Harold was standing.

I looked around, but didnÂ’t see any deerÂ… so I asked Harold, “WhereÂ’s your deer?  LetÂ’s get him gutted and IÂ’ll help you drag it back to camp.”

He gave me a “funny” grin and pointed his rifle off to our right.  I thought I saw something laying behind some brushÂ… and I walked over for a closer look.  Harold had shot a fawn.  I gritted my teeth, gave Harold one of those “You S.O.B.!!!” looks and walked away.

Needless to say, I didnÂ’t speak to Harold the rest of the 10 day trip and hunted as far away from him as I could.  The other two guys with us were HaroldÂ’s “buddies” and whle the other “guest” remained friendly, the co-owner of the bus didnÂ’tÂ… so I was the one who was ostracized, not Harold.  But that was okÂ… IÂ’d had enough.

Once we got home, I never saw Harold againÂ… and I have NEVER gone on ANY kind of hunt, big game or small gameÂ… with anyone I didnÂ’t know REALLY well!

This was my “hunt from he**”!


Strength & HonorÂ…

Ron T.

[Daveinthebush]

THE#1hunter

Here in Alaska reliability and cheap ammo is often the case for native populations.  Many of the Eskimo's use Mini 14's in .223 on caribou and moose every year.  Applied correctly the .222 will kill deer with no problem.  Don't feel bad.  One of the biggest bears in NY was killed with a .22-250.  One shot, one kill.

As Clint Eastwood would say:  A mans got to know his limitations.


Worst I saw!  I was doing a drive and all of a sudden I heard buckshot hitting the ground around me.  One of the drivers in the middle had decided to shoot a 45 pound fawn with buckshot.  Buckshot is illegal in NY.  He did not know where I was and damn near hit me.  :evil: He placed the deer on his shoulder to carry it out.
 :roll:

[Cabin4]

An Outfitter in Maine told me of a guy he had at his camp that used a 22-250 for bear over bait. the guy aims for an eyeball shot to put the bullet in the brain. it worked and he took a nice 375 boar with one shot to the eye ball. the bear was laying dead at the bait site. it dropped on the spot.

nothing i would ever try, want to try or reccomend. still pretty dumb.

[broken arrow]

I guess there's a great many hunters who, for whatever reason have no respect for the game, other hunters or themselves. When I read about busted hunts from road hunters, Harold the moron and hunters leaving animals to rot it makes you sick. I can't tell you how much I appreciate those of you who are honorable principled and ethical hunters. As a land owner I will be far more inclined to give permission to hunters who ask and relentlessly prosecute those who do not. I will always hunt deer. I will alaways obey game laws and respect my fellow hunter. I will eat every deer that I shoot and will only fire when I am absolutely certain of a fatal shot.
        To the road hunters, the poachers the trespassers and those who kill simply for the purpose of excercising power over something else, a warning. Stay away from me. I have never violated your land and put your family in harm's way because of my reckless abandon with a firearm, I have never killed your game I have never set foot on your property without permission and I will take every precaution to preserve your hunt and extend every possible courtesy to you as a fellow human being........... Don't tread on me. :evil:

[ringo]

Ask your butcher, I have seen elk with legs riddled with buckshot, "It slows them down" was the response when I questioned the bloodshot meat!  
The other one is, "I only do head shots" as I glass an emaciated deer missing its' lower jaw!  
I walked into a slash, quite active with crows working a dead young bull moose, left there because a bigger bull had happened by and it was harvested at the expense of the smaller one!
I went out and pre-scouted an area, I am ready to hunt a nice hat-rack whitetail I have seen, on opening day, when in the wee hours of the morning I am awaken by a shot as someone pitlamps the animal!
Or "shoot 2, we'll take them home 1 at a time" on the same tag!

[Graybeard]

Ron T. Our hunts likely weren't all that far apart. Heading out of Rifle toward Meeker I was on the left side of highway about half way to Meeker.

Let me give ya another of lack of ethics on the part of folks I saw in woods.

Me and a couple other guys I've hunted with for many years went to a public hunting area in Bama several years back. It was in a WMA that is pretty popular on the one day a year they have a drawing for doe permits and this was to be the day. Both the guys I was with drew out doe permits while I didn't so was buck only for me.

We went way back in to a place we'd seldom seen folks in the past and wow was it full. I saw one guy sitting in sight of his truck from where we parked next to his. Walked up the hill on the old logging road only to see another sitting not 25 yards off the road to my left. On up the hill and turned right down a ridge I liked to hunt near the end of. Hadn't gotten near there when I noticed another orange clad hunter ahead of me. Went back a bit and turned off to right heading for another spot I like. Yup same old story. Another orange clad hunter in the way of me getting there. So I back out and go way over a couple ridges and down toward another spot I liked.

You guessed it. Orange sitting down there where I was headed. So I back up to where I can't see any orange and just sit down to wait the end of morning. Figure my hunt is ruined so maybe I can convince them to go elsewhere later for more hunting.

Not long after I've gotten comfortable I see movement of the hunter below me where I'd been headed. Way too much movement it seems. After awhile I see him headed generally back up my way on the ridge opposite me. He is dragging a doe. No he didn't have a doe permit but some in his party did he said later. As he got straight across from me at well under 100 yards away he hollared over to me asking if I'd seen anything. I said only orange hats and vests. He suggested I go on down where he'd been sitting as he'd seen four other deer he said.

I did if for no other reason to distance myself from him as he wasn't pulling that deer out very fast. Walked on down the ridge and sat down about 25 yards from the hollow at bottom. Four ridges and hollows all come together at this spot. One of my favorites to hunt at really. Hadn't been there 10 minutes with a pretty nice 7 point buck comes down the opposite ridge and stops about 35 yards away. I put a .277" Nosler PT thru the lungs and he makes his death run back up toward the other guy still dragging his deer out.

He calls out to me that it ran up near him. I tell him I know and it ain't going far. He comes over when I get to it to take a look at the rack. Says he started to shoot it himself. I asked WHY? I said you've got your deer already and this one was dead on it's feet at my shot. Got no answer other than "I saw that rack and sure wanted to shoot it". Said he guessed he should have waited awhile longer before coming out with his deer. Yup he made it clear he'd have shot it also if still there.

In his favor I must say he did later come back and help me drag it out to the road however.

Then later his hunting companions join him to see the deer we'd taken. He was maybe a similar age to me (50 something) at the time. Had his daughter and son with him and a friend of theirs who was the lazy guy about 25 yards off the road I found out. Now this fat boy took a real liking to my buck. He told the others they should all gang up on me and whip my @$$ and take it from me. At first we all thought he was joking but he kept on trying to convince them to take the deer from me. I finally had enough and explained to him firmly and not so politely that if he had just asked for it I'l likely have given it to him. But since he acted as he had it would cost him his life if he tried to take it. The .357 Mag I had ready at hand under my vest backed up that. The others got the message real clear and they finally took him away.

Ah the joys of public land hunting.

GB

[Ron T.]

Heyyyyy BillÂ…  

Your experiences border on the “unbelievable”… not that I don’t believe your tale, but that those people were so unethical and dishonorable.

I know there are peopleÂ… and huntersÂ… like that, but I hope I never have to deal with them.  When I was a younger man, I could tolerate such jerks, but at my age now, my patience with a**holes is either very limited or non-existent.  

To stand there and attempt to encourage to his companions to beat you up and take your buck right to your face sounds to me like this idiotic “Bubba” had a “death wish” since you were standing there with not only with your .357 magnum, but a loaded .270 rifle.  That “Bubba” doesnÂ’t sound like he had both oars in the water.

FortunatelyÂ… you didnÂ’t have to “take care of business”… ‘cause that would have been on your conscious for the rest of your life.  Even if you were “right”, IÂ’m sure you would have felt bad about itÂ… any decent man would.  No matter what, a manÂ’s life is still more precious than the possession of a deerÂ… even a man like your “Bubba” buddy there.    

On the other hand, like someone who was famous once saidÂ…. “There are some men who just NEED killinÂ’ !”     (If anyone asks you, I didnÂ’t say that!)        :wink:


Strength & HonorÂ…

Ron T.

[Raging480]

Dang if these stories don't make me want to cry!  I am fairly new into my hunting, and it really pains me to realize the fools that are "hunting."  No wonder it is so difficult to find good private land to hunt, with so many bad apples out there.

[jhm]

Yes and always remember the apple dont fall far from the tree, alot of the new hunters really need to attend their local gun clubs along with some of their parents so both can learn some woods manners.   JIM

[Graybeard]

Yes indeed Ron I'm glad it didn't come to that. I'd have gladly given it to him if he'd only asked. But what he did was just too much for a hard headed old coot like myself to take. He wasn't brave enough to jump on his own and his companions were smart enough not to join him or encoruage him. I do not believe he was playing with a full deck.

Dunno if it is because I've spent so much time in the woods during the last 50+ years or if I've just been unlucky to run across so many bad apples but I have several other such tales.

Let me now share with you the one that finally caused me to part company with the fellow I went to CO with. Should have after that trip but he was kinda young and I thought maybe I could influence him for the better. Guess I was wrong.

We were hunting on land belonging to a family member of his. An aunt I believe on his dad's side. Me and one other (a fellow I'd hunted with for over 20 years) were hunting as his guests and he pretty well gave us free rein to hunt when we wanted on the land as long as we avoided hunting his stand areas. The first year there I kinda roamed the land to get acquainted and see where I might want a stand site. After a few trips I found a spot well away from where anyone else hunting on the land had stands and climbed a tree one morning and took a doe during doe days. Next time in the area I found a trail of ribbons going right past where I had climbed to a spot right out in front of me where the deer had come from. The guy I'd hunted with for over 20 years who had been hunting on the place for 10-12 years but never on the side of the highway I was on decided to claim it.

OK I let him have it. Moved on again and roamed until I found another spot I kinda liked. Before the second season there the host helped me take about $350- or so of materials way back in to that spot to build me a nice ladder stand 16' up and 4'x6' with roof to keep off the sun or rain. Shot another doe from that stand shortly after building it and a turkey one day on the way back to my truck during fall turkey season. Before the season was over I was roaming around up on the ridge above my stand to see what that area looked like and found a couple of stands up there within 150 yards of mine. Yup the same fellow who I'd hunted with for many years moved in on me again. I let it ride as he had been hunting there a lot longer than me and I figured I'd just hunt that stand when he wasn't around.

Found me another spot really distant from any used by anyone on the place. Best spot I'd found yet really. Put up another stand on it with maybe $200 or so in materials plus the labor. Turned out an excellent spot. Killed three deer from it as I recall in two seasons. One day I noticed tho the fellow I'd been hunting with for 20+ years was parked just a bit over 100 yards out in front of me and just out of sight and was walking right thru the middle of the area I watched to yet another stand he'd selected just over the ridge from me.

I should mention at this point that after having put in these two stands plus one other that really was where no one had any interest in hunting but me I was then told that his aunt was making new rules. We could no longer come down on our own. Could only hunt in his company and he was only allowed two guests at a time. Seemed reasonable even if a major change after I'd invested a lot of money and time. Found out the other guy still hunted when he wanted even on his own. Seems I was the only one the rule applied to.

So one Wednesday I call to verify he is hunting on Saturday and that I can go. Nope is the answer he and the other guy are going to another location on Saturday so I'll have to find somewhere else to go. I do find somewhere else. Turns out they both did in fact go to the spot they said they weren't gonna but didn't bother to call and let me know. Fast forward a week or two. Called again and was told nope I couldn't hunt as he had two guest already lined up for Saturday. OK I says then put me down now for next Saturady OK? He says OK. Next Wednesday I call to verify and he says nope got two guests lined up. I say but what about the discussion we had last week. He says oh one of them couldn't make it so he is coming this week end. Then he added but it's OK you can come on too. I asked what about the rule of only two guests. He says on my aunt won't know.

So on Friday he calls me and asks which stand I plan to use. I say dunno. Won't know until I get there and see what the conditions are and where the wind if any is from.

Saturday morning when I get there I past his truck already parked where he parks. Strange. He never beats me in. I'm always the first to arrive. When I get to where I park he is standing there. Tells me he put his buddy in my "big stand" as he called it. The $350 or so one. Says he figured I'd hunt the other one anyway.

This was my last hunt there and the last time I've had any dealings with either of the two. They both showed they were not the kinda folks I want to associate with. Oh I could tell more on both of them. Maybe I will at some later date.

Yup maybe I've had more than my fair share of dealing with these kinds. Dunno. Hope so. I'd hate to think everyone has run into as many of them as I have in my hunting career.

GB

[Lee D.]

Here is question about ethics.  
     A couple of years ago I was hunting about 50 to 100 yards outside of the private land which we post and patrol in New York.  So I was on public hunting land.  I look up and there is a hunter in a tree stand almost directly above me.  He got kinda of miffed and said something like "your messing up my world".  I had aranged to met my dad around the corner of the hill infront of me.  This fellow wanted me to back track out of there and walk way around "his" hunting area.  This detour would have added about a 1/2 mile to my walk to meet my father.
    What would you have done.
    I made a slight detour so that I didn't walk directly in front him and cut back up onto our land and then walked across.  He wasn't on our lot but he sure was hunting the edge.

[Ron T.]

WOW, BillÂ….

YouÂ’re SURE a LOT more patient and understanding than IÂ’d be if my hunting partners, especially a hunting partner of OVER 20 years screwed me over like that!!!!!!!!!

IÂ’ve always taken the stand this way, “Screw me once, SHAME on YOU!  Screw me twice, SHAME on ME!”  Yeah, thatÂ’s rightÂ… shame on me for LETTING someone be so disloyal and unethical as to screw me over like that.

Frankly, BillÂ… I canÂ’t imagine doing that to anyone IÂ’d befriended.  If a man puts his good money into a stand, then IÂ’d figure itÂ’s “his territory” since his stand overlooks itÂ… and I wouldnÂ’t even CONSIDER asking him to hunt anywhere NEAR his stand!

And I would NEVER make any “arrangements” with any other hunters to use another man’s stand and purposely block out that man so his stand would be empty.

But what really “bothers” me is the sneakiness & thoughtlessness of your 20+ year hunting buddy moving in on every new stand you set up.  That is badly breaking the unwritten “rule” that you donÂ’t horn in on another manÂ’s “hunting territory”, ESPECIALLY if heÂ’s put up a stand there, unless he specifically invites youÂ… and even THEN, you donÂ’t horn in on his “territory”.

Looks to me like you should be more “choosy” about the company you keepÂ… but then, maybe this is why I donÂ’t call many men “friend”, eh?  I guess a man can get pretty jaded if he has many experiences like youÂ’ve had.

I canÂ’t BELIEVE the patience you displayed in building all those stands.  YouÂ’d sure make a fine hunting partner.     :toast:

At least, you wouldnÂ’t get mad fast when I took over your best hunting standsÂ…. Hahahahahahaha!    :-D


Strength & HonorÂ…

Ron T.

[Graybeard]

Yup Ron I feel I gave him more than enough rope to hang himself with me. The piece of property in question is way back in the mountains with few houses even remotely close other than the house on the land which is rented out. The house the owner lived in until she died leaving the land to another family member. There is about 80 acres on one side of the paved county road with a swamp on it and about another 400 or so acres on the other side that joins up with pretty much nothing but woods and hills for 2 miles or more most all directions.

Prior to me hunting there the long time hunting partner had NEVER once hunted on the larger parcel of land. Only on the 80 acres. Why this all happened I have no clue. My best guess is he really deep down didn't want me hunting on that land. He wanted to be the only guest on it. I say this partly because once several years earlier he had taken me and another person whom I'd hunted with for even longer down there to call crows one day when we were in the area crow hunting. We'd asked then about us getting in on what we understood to be a "club". We were told nope not possible. That it was private land and he was the only guest allowed.

Then when the fellow who's aunt owned it and I became acquainted and he invited me I think it really urked this guy big time.

It really matters not. This happened a few years ago now and I've put it all behind me and have no association of any kind with either of them. I lost a lot of money and time I put into that place and the stands they are now enjoying I guess.

There is certainly no way I'd have even considered putting someone on the stand of another without his express permission and even then I think I'd want it to be that person's idea and not mine. Dunno about some folks.

Lee D. Can't speak for the rest of the world but me I'd have backed out and went far enough around the other hunter to assure I didn't mess up his hunt for the day. To me public land is open land but whomever gets a stand site first deserves the curtesy of having it as his for the time he is there. I made a post on another thread of a hunt I made at Coosa WMA several years back where I kept running into other hunters everywhere I went that morning and back way up to go around to avoid messing them up. To me that's the proper thing to do.

GB

[Colville]

Bill, Call me petty... but I'd have gone at least one more time.  My equipment would have been a fifle and orange vest to look the part....

and a hammer hand/hack saw and nail claw. I'd have gone in succession to each stand I had built that wasn't "in use" and removed it. I think I'd have let that stand as my message that I wouldn't be attending future hunts there. And really who can complain about you destroying what represents your investment. I mean what reasonable person could. Anyhow, I'm petty.  :grin:

Colville

[ronbow]

And to top it all off, the main reason I go hunting is to get away from it all. "All" being idiots like you guys described. I hunt in Florida especially bow season during which the temperature is in the 80s with rain and skeeters, so after the opening weekend all the idiots are gone.

[Ron T.]

Lee D...

I would have done about what you did... and made sure I swung far enough away and around from the territory directly around him so as to not disturb any deer in his vicinity.

Like Bill said... if he gets in his stand first, then that day, it's "HIS" territory up to the fence on the public land he's hunting.  Naturally, the private land beyond the fence that you post and patrol is NOT "his" territory, regardless of who gets there first... but that doesn't mean you should walk all over his public land territory getting to your private, posted land after he's already legally positioned himself in his stand on public land.

In my opinion, on public land, it's first come, first serve... but on private, posted land, the hunters who own it or have the owner's permission to hunt the land are the ONLY ones who can hunt the land.

That's my  :money: worth, anyway...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[pa ridge-runner]

I have been hunting public land most of my hunting career,have seen numerous crazy things from so-called hunters.The one story that really sticks out for me was a time about 20 yrs ago,Iwas bow hunting,standing on the edge of a corn field.Behind me was a large grassy field.I noticed two fellas obviously following a blood trail.As I watched I saw them come upon a deer laying and seen them shaking hands and congradulating each other.Since I was so close and it being on public land I figured I'd be nosey and walk over to see what they got! By the time I walked over the one guy had rolled the (fawn) deer on its back to start gutting it,and to my disbelief he took out a sheeth knife,stuck the knife into the deers ponch all the way to the handle and was using the knife like a saw cutting down the belly of that deer.The guts were just boiling out of the deers stomach.I said "wow,you guys are gonna have quite a mess there"They both looked at me as if to say get lost,but said they would handle it.I didnt want to see any more so walked away.The following week the same two guys were back hunting that area again,and of course they didnt tag the young fawn from the week before,.You never know what kind of jerks will be out there hunting the same land as yourself.All I can say is "BEWARE" of all hunters that are in the same woods as me.Those lucky fellas that hunt private land should be thankfull.

[Huntrap_MT]

In this state poaching is so common, that it might as well be registered under MT businesses list. There are fulltime poachers, but the bulk of them are hobby poachers or oportunist poachers. MT has only a handful of wardens that have to cover areas so large, that they never do see it all in a season. Most wardens though, do get some helpers to go out on some calls etc., but usually they get stuck checking "Block Management" areas, which uses about all of thier time. When I was gowing up on the farm (about 8 years ago), I shot many deer throughout the year and tryed to keep our meat shed full. That is how alot of us farmers out there suplemented our other "crappy" food. Game birds were taken too, and were relished. I am not afraid to admit poaching then, as I did not do it for money or sport, and that is how things were done in those years and was therefore legal to all of us. Then one year they posted a warden in our corner of the state and an awareness of seasons and limits etc. started to catch on, and about that time trophy hunting turned into a big deal. We new the warden and had some respect for having one. As I learned others around were acting like they were all about being legal, I than questioned if my families ways were wrong and embarassing, before long I vowed to just take my allowed deer and be satisfied with that. The last 9 years I have learned how to become a very respectable hunter, and the warden knows as well as the locals. However, the poaching part of things in this area now is usually for horns or ditching game so more can be hunted. There is not even close to enough time for me to type all of my major experiences I have witnessed of poaching that has gone on in my 25 years. I will relate breifly that a couple years ago, we secretly had to turn in our neighbors (which we get along well with) for dumping about 7 antelope and 6 mule deer into one of our coulees right next to one of our farm's major roadways. We had to do it. Acouple years before that, another local man and his sons would keep dumping buck carcasses about 10 miles from our farm and the pile that had been there for years until we found it, had gotten extremely large.  I saw the inside of that man's quanset and the walls on both sides were completely lined up with buck heads! I will never forget it, ever! The man has been in alot of trouble with area land owners for years, for spotlighting, and hunting across the Canadian border, yet no one seems to turn him in very much, nor do the Fish & Game seem to even care much, they don't seem to worry about anything that goes on over here in our country. I have one poaching story that made many papers and even national news that I had a small part in helping with the bust, but I'll just leave it at that. MT is both a great state for hunting and just as good for poaching. I, however, am willing to be a citizen warden as I hope a few more will be, so we can turn this around just a little.

Huntrap

[Old Griz]

I was hunting on a small 36 acre lot a cousin of mine leases to a farmer, and every other year it's got either corn or beans on it. I was near a corner of the property, well after harvest, that was near the corn, tall grass where does had been bedded down, a creek bed, and tracks all over the place. I was nestled in a ground blind just waitin for Bambi to come out for a snack. Instead, I got a visiting relative of the neighbor from the other side of the property line yelling at me if I knew who's land I was on. I said yes, as if it was any of his business anyway, and showed him the property line. He had to admit that I was on my cousin's property, but he didn't like me hunting there. So he drove back and forth in his pickup truck all morning long--most of the time on his relative's property, sometimes on my relative's property. Then, about lunch time, he comes out and just parks, but lets his three dogs out to run all over the place. Never knew why he was being such a turd all day long, but I finally gave up and went home.

[Tony D]

Griz, harassing hunters is illegal in most states.  A friendly reminder to him might have gotten him to see the light.

[conibearer]

I was driving up to my cabin which is in the U.P. and I need to drive about 10 miles through a dirt road and you see a deer crossin it every 5 minutes. So I was driving a short distance away from a pickup that had two men inside the car. So we whent down about 4 miles then the pickup stopped and a man jumped out from the bed and fired three rounds. They pulled to the side of the road and told me to pass them so I did but I got their license plate number and called the local DNR office which Im sure most of you would have.

[Ron T.]

Conibearer...

CONGRATULATIONS... you did exactly the "right" thing!!!

You did what every responsible hunter/sportsman should do... drop a phone call to the game authorities on these poachers!

They steal our rights by wound, maim and kill OUR game animals thereby cheating us, the responsible people who support the wildlife and it's conservation through the purchase of hunting licenses and our on-going support of and cooperation with the professionals of our Fish & Game Agencies.

I would have done EXACTLY what you did if I had driven past these dispicable characters.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[SingleShotShorty]

I guess I have been fairly lucky over the years and not had to deal with The types of guy's that some of you have. The only bad experience I have had came at a young age.  When I was 14 years old a rancher that I helped during the summers set aside approx 600 acres for me and my dad to hunt. Well that year dad was sick and recovering from surgery during Deer season but seeing that I was raised hunting and fishing he let me go by myself that year. I got up early and went to our spot with my trust 20 ga. with slugs and found a nice spot where three draw met and sat down for the morning. At around 20 minutes after sunrise I spotted  a nice 10 point that looked like an Elk to a young man. The deer came to around 50 yards of me when I shot it. I sat for around 20 minutes and started my blood trail tracking and found the Buck approximately 2 hundred yards from where I shot him. But this is where it goes down hill quick. As I got to him two older men showed up and told me that it was there deer as they had just shot it. Well I did not hear another shot and my blood trail lead directly to the downed deer. Needless to say they took my deer. and of course I was really upset at the out come and told the rancher about it and he told me that it was most likely some trespassers that came on to his land from the puplic hunting area adjoining his place. I still to this day can not understand what kind of a guy would take a deer away from a young kid, but I guess it takes all kinds. I gave up deer hunting for around 10 years after that morning. I later met a guy I worked with that owned a good deer hunting place and taught me how to shoot rifles and allot about deer hunting and I have hunted there ever since.

[hunt4570]

These stories are exactly why I only hunt my personaly owned private property.Only 160 acs in north central OK.deer populations are very small (approx 1 deer to 16 ac)and very small,I have yet to see a shooter buck.My 14 yr old daughter and I still have a good time puting does in the freezer and hopeing someday a big buck might pass through.One thing I don't have is horrer stories about IDIOTS in the woods.SGB :grin: