Merits of the 308? Kill History Please

[coug2wolfs]

Yo, Coug here.  I'm tryin my dangest to wean off'n them bigbores on account of they have busted me up in good shape.

I've taken a shine to the 308 in a BLR, but have an accuracy history with an assortment of bolt guns in the caliber.

Shy of recent, I have not done a whole pile of killin with the 308, but since it's sposed to be the ballistic twin of the -06 it should kill about anything?

Let's have the 308 fan club tell me some stories about the 308.

Thanks

Coug

[RWH24]

I am a short action fan. Look at stats on Law Enf SWAT, most sniper/counter snipers use the 308, the Garand was 30/06 and the M1A1 went 308 w/the M-14. Most Garand shooters convert to 308 due to less recoil on an extended match. The 308 is accurate, costs less to reload (less powder) and will shoot the same bullets. The 200-220grainers are better in the Oh-6 at long ranges I hear tell but a 308 is all I need, or you need. I have a 243 and 308 and will have a 7-08 too someday. Maybe even a 260 rem.
Good Luck, The 45/70 just thumps too bad for me. It ain't fun if it hurts. :shock:
Randy
 

[Zachary]

Coug,

I wouldn't necessarily say that the .308 is the ballistic twin of the .30-06, but it is relatively close.

You want stories?  I can only give you two - one involving a deer and another a hog.

308 vs. Mr. Whitetail
I have a Remington VS SF (no longer made in .308).  It's basically a Sendero Stainless Fluted in .308 with a 26" barrel.  Very, VERY, accurate with just about all loads.  On this particular hunt, I was using factory Hornady 150 grain Interlocks.  The deer was about 100 yards away.  I aimed right behind the shoulder, bottom third toward the heart.  At the shot, the deer got "shocked-up," dropped, got up, started to run off, and collapsed within a few yards.  Kinda surprising - this was only the second time I had seen something like this.

308 vs. Mr. Piggy
Same gun, same trip, different bullet - this was a Barnes X 150 grain.  The 75 to 100 lb. hog was about 100 yards away.  He was almost broadside eating corn under a feeder.  Shot him right behind the shoulder, about third bottom down (just like the deer shot as described above.)  At the shot, he "shocked-up," squeeled, ran in a 5 yard circle, and then dropped.  About 5 minutes later, I got down from my tower blind.  While I was getting down, he ran off another 25 yards and dropped again.  The bullet penetrated the hog.

Those are the only two animals I have ever taken with my .308.  

Zachary

[wareagleguy]

coug,
From reading other posts I know you are not a BAR fan but my 308 story is with my BAR.

My story is short....

4 shots, 4 dead deer.

[coug2wolfs]

coug,
From reading other posts I know you are not a BAR fan

Only cause it don't seem to fit me right, but maybeso I ain't been fair about adaptin  :lol:

The other thing that bugs me, and it ain't justy the BAR, even Weatherby uses the long action for the 308.  To me that's a shortcut.  Sure, it works, but that half inch spacer in the clip of the BAR 308 clip gives me the willies :-D

Coug

[coug2wolfs]

Thanks guys for the feedback....I'm ponderin :wink:

[Sixgun]

Coug,

I have had at least one 308 in my rack for the last 30 years.  My first one was a Savage 99.  I must have killed at least 50 deer with that gun.  My best shot was one day when I was hunting mule deer in south central Idaho.  

I had two of my boys with me and we had climbed to the top of a bare hill where we had earlier spotted a herd of deer.  When we got up there they were gone and the last one was watching us from the next ridge.  I guessed it to be 400 yards.  It was a little 3 point buck and he was facing toward us at a slight angle.  I asked my boys if they thought I should shoot it and since we were meat hunting they said to go ahead.  There was no wind so I just held streight on and put the cross hair at the top of his head.  At the shot he started to run toward us but ended up turning a tight circle and fell down.  The bullet broke his left front shoulder going in, went full length through his gut.  It came out of the far end of his gut and hit low in his right leg.  It broke the big leg bone and was under the skin, low on his right ham.  I have since confirmed, with a GPS that the shot was 438 yards.  

The bullet was a 165gr Speer BT.  I don't remember what powder I used but back then I was mostly useing 4064 for my 308.  It was probably doing 2600 fps at the muzzle.  The bullet looked like the ones that they show in the magazines.  It was a perfect mushroom, even though it had broken two big bones and it still weighed 120 gr.

I don't have the Savage anymore because it got excessive head space.  They are a little weak for heavy loads.  I now have a rem 788 with an 18in barrel.  With Win 748 I can still get 2700fps from it with the Speer 165gr BT.  I have had several 30-06s and yes they consistently get about 25 fps more than I get from my 308s.  25fps is within the extreme spread I usually get from my handloads and that isn't enough to make me use 10 more graines of powder and carry a heavier rifle to get.

You will like the 308.

Sixgun

[Zachary]

So coug,

What do you think so far?  .308 or 7mm-08?  It's a tough decision.

Zachary

[coug2wolfs]

Great stuff guys!  Keep it comin :wink:

I love it when a man takes a stand, speaks on his experience and beliefs.  All reports I read as 1st hand experience, and to me, that's the very best kind  :lol:

Coug

[Selmer]

I have several rifles, including a .30-06 and a .308.  The -06 is a M70 classic stainless featherweight with a wood stock, absolutely gorgeous rifle, the main reason I bought it, that and it was the same caliber dad uses.  I also own a .308 788 Rem.  that I purchased before the .30-06.  I doubt I'll sell the .30-06, but I will NEVER sell the .308.  It shoot sub-moa with 125 gr. BT's at 2600 fps, the load I learned on, doesn't kick, and it kicks some whitetail ass with a 150 gr. BT at 2900 fps.  It shoots as flat as my .30-06 and I have the utmost confidence.  Oh-yeah, my .30-06 is finicky, but I suspect that is the stock, which will be re-bedded this winter, and my .308 never fails to outshoot every rifle we have.  Note: every rifle, it can't keep up with my custom xp-100 in 7mmBR.  Many deer have fallen to my .308 and my brother's .308, use and love it, there ain't nothing better.  I have jug shooting contests with a couple friends, one with a .30/.378 Wby. and the other a .338/.378 Wby., both of which I load for them.  Guess who wins at 400 yds. when we square off, yep, my .308 does every time cause I ain't scared of it and it's cheaper to shoot.  Of coruse, when we switch rifles, I still kick their butts, but that is irrelevant.
I love the .308!
Selmer

[mikepow]

For what its worth.I have 2 308 howa bolt and a win.modle 100 both guns shoot fine kick isn't bad I don't like to be beatup. I can shoot the win 100 308  a full 20-25 rnds. with no real problem.In real life if my 308 won't stop it fast I shouldn't be shooting at it.I also have first hand exp. with the m14 I was in country when they started the switch over to the m16   I never let go of my 14 thank god. when someone is coming at me with intent to kill me I want him dead not pissed. the 223 is fine for yotes and p dogs and i have one but if i want it stopped 308 stops it.
Sorry all you m16 fans but that my 2 cents
                                          Mike

[brotherinlaw]

I hunt with a short bolt in .308. Just about all of the shots made on our property are under 400 yrds. I have dropped every white tail that I hit. None went more than 50 yards, most dropped within 10 feet. Note the "hit" part. Yes a have missed a few due to brush.  :roll:
Don't see the need for any thing else where I hunt. The ammunition is cheap and I don't need to get "whallopped" for entertainment (got enough of that playing football in college).
Now I'm not knocking magnums, just like you need different clubs on the golf corse, you have different requirements depending on the huntin your doing.

[urika20]

I've used a savage 99 now two years in a row. First buck at 60yds, one shot. Second year buck at 170yds running full speed across a field, also one shot to drop him. Bullet used, 125gr Nosler ballistic tip.

urika20

[Ron T.]

The .300 Savage cartridge, introduced in 1920 in the Savage Model 99 lever-action rifle with the intent to duplicate early .30/06 muzzle velocities (150 gr. bullet @ 2700 fps), was used as a model for the design of the .308 Winchester (7.62 mm NATO) cartridge.  The .308 Win. has a longer neck  and a somewhat greater powder capacity than the .300 Savage.  However, the .308 is loaded to significantly higher chamber pressures than the older .300 Savage, and thus achieves a higher muzzle velocity.

In general, using the same bullet weights, the standard loaded .308 Winchester round is about 50 fps to 150 fps slower than the .30/06 (depending on who’s “numbers” you believe) if both cartridges are loaded to the same chamber pressure.  In order to achieve the SAME muzzle velocity, a .308 would have to be loaded to a higher chamber pressure than a .30/06… and often is.  This is true of both factory loaded and handload cartridges.

Naturally, since “sensed recoil” is created by a combination of bullet weight, muzzle velocity and rifle weight… and CAN BE effected by the fit of the stock to the shooter, the .308 generally has SLIGHTLY less recoil if used in the same-weight rifle.  I recall seeing a ballistics chart that listed “sensed recoil” values.  It indicated that a .30/06 weighing 8½ pounds shooting a 150 grain bullet had 21 to 22 foot/pounded of free recoil whereas a .308 shooting the same bullet at a slightly lower MV had 18 or 19 ft/lbs of free recoil.

However, since the law of physics hasn’t been revoked to my knowledge, if a given mass (150 grains) is accelerated to a given speed (a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps, as example) in the same weight rifle, then the “shooter sensed recoil” will be the SAME for either cartridge since both mass and velocity are the same… and the rifle weight is also the same.

There’s no “FREE RIDE” when dealing with recoil energy.

Regardless of dubious claims made by cartridge manufacturers who have traditionally always given questionable, often over-stated muzzle velocities for their loaded cartridges, the .308 can not match muzzle velocities with the .30/06 simply because the .30/06 cartridge case holds more powder than the .308 cartridge case can hold.  I know you can read “similarities” in gun magazines and even in reloading manuals, but buy factory loads or reload and shoot both rounds through a chronograph and you’ll quickly see that the law of physics that sez that smaller capacity rounds can not out-perform larger capacity rounds is still in force.

But, frankly, a deer won’t know the “difference” if hit by a 150 grain bullet from a .30/06 Springfield or a .308 Winchester.  Therefore, at best… this is a classic case of “hair-splitting”.

In fact, I use a handloaded 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet with a MV of 2675 fps in my Model 99 .300 Savage rifle and I seriously doubt that the deer know the “difference”.


Strength & Honor…

Ron T.

[shb]

Hi guys, I was just lurking along, minding my own business when this thread caught my attention.  Its a long story but I transformed my ruger 22-250 into a  .308 ruger/remington hybrid in order to more effectively snipe at those coyotes that sit on their butt and bark at you from 500yds. when you look at the energy of a 22-250 projectile at the 500 yd mark you see that it is practically the same as a 22 rimfire, and thats is not good medicine for an animal as tough as a coyote.  So anyway The best official shot I ever made was with  this .308.

It happened between hunts while I was working as an elk guide in New Mexico.  I remember it as being a cold overcast day in late november,  a couple of the  guides and I were playing cards and drinking whiskey near the kitchen window of the lodge. Every couple of hands we would look out the window to check the pile of butchered elk bones and scraps we placed out by the creek.  Earlier we had run a coyote off the pile when pulled into camp from a trip to town.  So , I got out my benchrest and pulled a picnic table around to where I could leave my .308 on the benchrest and pointed right at the scrap pile.  I took about an hour for the coyote to come back for supper, and when we noticed him I snuck out the back of the lodge eased up to my rifle, as I was settling in he noticed me and started drifting off towards the trees. I finally got settled and got the crosshairs on him.  When He finally stopped trotting I  squeezed off the shot. When I came out of the recoil I couldn't see anything but a tuft of hair floating on the breeze. I assumed that I hit him, but I wasn't sure. When my friends came piling out of the lodge calling me a  lucky S.O.B. I knew I must have tagged him. They were watching the whole thing through spotting scopes.  When we stepped off the yardage it was 428 yds. The bullet centered his right front shoulder and  exited his left ham. The ammo was 147 grn american eagle, FMJ. I can't get a 22 centerfire to group with fmj's but my 308 will shoot .5" groups even with surplus ammo.  So needless to say I'm a .308 fan.

[Lee D.]

The weight of the powder chaqrge also has an effect on recoil.  I don't know the exact numbers but my understanding is that the gas velocity is over 7,000 fps and the extra grains of powder at that speed contribute to the recoil.  So the lighter charge of powder creats less recoil.

[eroyd]

My Dad gave me my first centerfire rifle. a cooey 308 when I was 14. I shot dropped (one shot) my first moose with that rifle and also took a 1000 lb Roosevelt Elk with it. I never recovered a single bullet for all completely penetrated the animals. I suspect this may have to do with the 308's modest velocity not causing standard jacketed bullets to over expand. I used 180's on big stuff and 150's on deer.

Interesting to note. (check your own reloading manuals) The 308 actually out performs the '06 in the lighter bullets, is about equal in the 165 and very close in the 180. The heavier stuff is the 'o6's advantage. but unless your hunting big bears, moose or bison you don't need them. Besides, if you can afford to hunt those animals you can probably afford a few rifles.

[jim21]

I have a Remington model 742 in .308 it shoots like your last night-mare.
I would Not recomend this .308 on anybody.Back in the early '90s I had
a Savage bolt action in .308,each day durring hunting season I got a deer
with one or two shots.On the last day of the season I loaned the gun out,
the person I loaned it to somehow got mud in the barrel.He fired the gun,blew out the barrel and broke his hand.I still want to kick his butt for
what he did to that Savage.Never could find another rifle like that one.