Author Topic: 45-70 or 444 (Read 2174 times)

paul63 · « **on:** August 27, 2008, 08:02:34 AM »

i going to buy either a 45-70 or 444 Handi to use this deer season during the primitive gun season. Which would be a good choice for whitetail at 100-150yds? Should I high scope rings to clear the hammer? Also i got my wife the youth Handi 7mm-08 & she loves it. Thanks for the feedback.

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2008, 08:26:45 AM »

45-70.

Spanky

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2008, 08:30:59 AM »

.45-70 for sure!

"Should I use high scope rings to clear the hammer?"

Yes, I prefer Weavers.

Hopefully Remington will come up with a lower hammer. I don't want to booger my hammer up, so I still use high rings.

Bayou Stalker · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2008, 08:34:32 AM »

Quote from: paul63 on August 27, 2008, 08:02:34 AM

Should I high scope rings to clear the hammer?

I have the 45-70 with a 4X20 Burris compact, and with a little modification, have it sitting in Burris Zee low rings. I was going to use open sights until I found little gem of a scope. Very compact and solidly mounted.

Kendall

JBC · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2008, 10:29:24 AM »

My vote would be for the 45-70 also: I bought one last year and love it - as for the rings I can't say I shoot the factory irons on mine to save bulk and weight

Troyboy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2008, 10:38:25 AM »

Seems this is always the debate. If you do not reload there is a lot more to offer the 45/70. The 444 works well to. Buy the 45/70 and send off for a 444 barrel after the season is over. Shoot them both and figure out is your favorite.

Troy

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2008, 11:32:50 AM »

I would go the other way picking the 444 over the 45-70 unless you re-load. The common factory stuff for the 45-70 is pretty mild while you get full power loads in the 444 from anybody that loads it.
I have two Handi's in 45-70 and had a Marlin in 444. The Marlin did an outstanding job on bears and moose for me and a friend of mine dropped a huge 350+lb pound mulie with the same cartridge using 265 gr. Hornady bullets. I have not shot anything with the 45-70's but since I reload I am sure I can find something that will work as well.
I haven't seen any posts on a Handi with the 500S&W. I presume it would be equally effective on deer plus whatever else had the misfortune of coming into range

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2008, 01:31:11 PM »

I agree with 45-70 if you don't reload. I own both, like both and plan on taking deer with both this year. Only got 7 B tags for mulies to go with my A tag (antlered) this year, so I think I can use both

. DP

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2008, 01:34:28 PM »

45-70 hands down....<><....

cwlongshot · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2008, 03:23:03 PM »

I also prefer he 45-70, but the 444 is also a great caliber in its own right.

But as others have said, if you flesh it all out and carefully look at all the variables the 45-70 has much more to offer.

If all you ever did was shoot whitetails at 100 yrds or less, using factory ammo. You will be perfectly happy with either caliber. Throw in handloading and different game animals... We are back to the 45-70 stealing the show.

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2008, 05:17:28 PM »

Get em both, then decide, but you should start with the 45-70, it's one of the must-have Handi chamberings.

I have four of em, plus a 45-120, all H&Rs, only one .444 H&R tho, they're all accurate, but the 45-70 is a lot of fun to shoot, specially if you handload.

Try the forum search for 45-70, you'll see what we mean.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=search

henry1 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2008, 08:45:43 PM »

By far the .45/70! I have dumped 3 mulie does with my BC and it is a hoot! it is just awesome you cant go wrong with it. There are so many different options it will make your head spin! And heck if you haven't caught the handi bug yet, after the .45/70 you will and then you can pick up others at your will just like the rest of us! Its addicting! Addicting is just a fancy word for fun when it comes to these rifles!
H

petemi · « **Reply #12 on:** August 28, 2008, 02:38:58 AM »

I don't own a .444, but I considered it when I bought my .45-70. All I can say is the .45-70 Handi is the last rifle I'd ever part with.

cajun · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2008, 07:14:48 AM »

Well, despite all the advice I got to the contrary on here when I was shopping, I went out and got the 444 Marlin. In my case, it will only be used for deer hunting. I sighted it in with the Hornady Leverevolutions and am very pleased with it. I don't reload for this caliber so that had some affect on my decision. I have never fired a 45-70 so really cannot comment on it.

Thanks,,,

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2008, 07:26:50 AM »

"The .444 Marlin is a rifle cartridge designed in 1964 by Marlin Firearms and Remington Arms. It was designed to fill in a gap for the older .45-70 at a time when that cartridge was not currently available in any lever action, making it the largest at the time available lever-action cartridge.

In the mid 1960s the .45-70 had all but disappeared from the American marketplace. There was no big-bore cartridge available in a lever-action rifle, so Marlin decided to create a new cartridge to fill this empty niche. They choose to create essentially an elongated version of a .44 Magnum by making it nearly an inch longer to give it power similar to the .45-70.[3] The case Marlin created is very similar to a rimmed version of a .30-06 that was trimmed and necked-up to work with .429 bullets.

Hunters initially had some troubles because the .444 was frequently loaded using existing .429 bullets that were designed for use at handgun velocities.[3] Nevertheless the rifle did gain in popularity as more suitable bullets were designed for its higher velocity.

In 1972 Marlin re-introduced the .45-70 to their lever-action line, expanding their big-bore offerings. Sales of the .444 are now overshadowed by .45-70 cartridge which has enjoyed a resurgence in popularity."

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2008, 07:27:18 AM »

As long as your happy with your purchase that's all that matters....I have never shot the 444M, But I love my handi in 45-70....

Mike Britton · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2008, 08:15:04 AM »

OK, you guys have all made my mind up for me. I bought a really nice used .30-30 Handi (NH2050xx) not too long ago, and promised myself a second barrel after the move. I was entertaining all sorts of cartridges, but I think you've twisted my arm.
This will make my fifth .45/70 (Remington #1 sporter, Gibbs "summit", Marlin '95 straight grip, trapdoor sporter).
I had thought that four was enough, but everybody raves a bout their .45/70 handi's so I think I need that barrel.

ro · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2008, 05:02:35 PM »

the 45/70 is a great rifle, if you don't have one get one its a good deer gun.

krod47nw · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2008, 05:13:32 PM »

The nice thing about the handi is, you can get the 45/70 and a 444 barrel to go with it.

Kevin

BBF · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2008, 04:16:14 AM »

Mike:
Since you got several 45-70's why not try a .444 Marlin, you might like it and it gives you another excuse to get another set of dies etc. In case you do, I can recommend the Hdy 265 pushed with IMR 4198.

paul63 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2008, 04:57:36 AM »

Thanks for the comments. There really are great people on this sight. I really would rather the .444 since I don't reload. I have another guestion concerning a scope. I read in the FAQ about a scope from Cabela's that's calibrated to Hornaby ammo. Anyone know about this scope?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2008, 05:11:53 AM »

I bought one of the Cabelas Leverevolution scopes for my .444 but returned it without even mounting it, the field of view was pitifull and the adjustments ran out of travel before I got the reticle centered. I'd recommend one of the Nikon BDC scopes instead, they make several, the Omega BDC 250 works real good on a 45-70 with LE ammo, I have the Prostaff BDC on my 444, but haven't used it yet to see how well it works at 200-300yds.

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2008, 06:48:42 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on August 29, 2008, 05:11:53 AM

I bought one of the Cabelas Leverevolution scopes for my .444 but returned it without even mounting it, the field of view was pitifull and the adjustments ran out of travel before I got the reticle centered. I'd recommend one of the Nikon BDC scopes instead, they make several, the Omega BDC 250 works real good on a 45-70 with LE ammo, I have the Prostaff BDC on my 444, but haven't used it yet to see how well it works at 200-300yds.

Tim

Tim, this is going to sound ignorant, and I am, but how can you run out the travel, windage or elevation, without mounting the scope? I don't mean to sound rude or hostile, I just need to learn.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 29, 2008, 07:16:56 AM »

Pete,

Before I mount any scope, new or used, I mechanically center the reticle using the Leupold mirror method which can be found in the Leupold Answer Guide, on the Cabela's scope, one of the turret adjustments wouldn't turn far enough to center the X-hair, I don't remember which it was, but it would only turn so far and quit moving in the direction I need to go, it would turn back the other way, so it wasn't totally locked up, just defective right out of the box. $:-\$

Tim

Centering of a scope's adjustment dials
The elevation and windage adjustments of a scope are easily centered. Place a small mirror against the objective end of the scope. That would be the end farthest from your eye as you look through the scope. Make certain that the mirror is large enough to cover the entire objective. It must also be flat against the objective. With the scope's power selector ring set at the lowest magnification, look through the eyepiece as you would while aiming at a target. If the scope's windage and elevation adjustments are off center, you will see two images of the reticle (cross-hair). To reach the center of the adjustment range, simply turn the elevation and windage dials until you see only one image of the reticle.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #24 on:** August 29, 2008, 07:36:31 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on August 29, 2008, 07:16:56 AM

Centering of a scope's adjustment dials

I have never heard that!

Or at least I don't remember hearing that...

That's some good stuff right there! Sure will save me a lot of twistin and counting turns of the windage/elevation dials!

petemi · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2008, 08:00:53 AM »

Tim, I don't know how you do it! Here I am, 68 and still learning something new each day. Thank you, Lord and your helper, Tim. You both amaze me.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2008, 09:37:21 AM »

Sourdough · « **Reply #27 on:** August 29, 2008, 10:29:06 AM »

45-70 Far more choice in factory loads. Everything from the light factory loads loaded for the old trapdoors, to the Buffalo Bore and some others that will knock your socks loose. If you reload you can really get the most out of this one. All types of bullets from light pistol bullets to 500gr cast bullets. And if on a hunting trip ammo is always available everywhere.

444 not a huge availability of factory loads. Also if on a hunting trip ammo can be a problem, not carried everywhere. Reloading availability of bullets is limited, compared to the 45.

Mike Britton · « **Reply #28 on:** August 30, 2008, 04:49:50 AM »

.45/70 GOVT!!!!
I can't use my .44 mag dies for .444? I always thought .444 was a straight case, no taper, and therefore I could use my .44 mag dies.!!!

Troyboy · « **Reply #29 on:** August 30, 2008, 05:01:17 AM »

Thanks for the scope info.That would be a good FAQS on the otics forum. Thats the beauty of this forum always gon to learn something new . Who would of thought?

??

Troy