Author Topic: Bisley Blackhawk Project NEED HELP (Read 1437 times)

LONGTOM · « **on:** August 19, 2008, 04:40:38 PM »

Hi to all on this forum:

I have been kicking this idea around for some time now and think I am ready to go through with it.
What I have is a BISLEY BLACKHAWK in 45 colt with a 7.5" barrel.
I would like to do a custom job on it consisting of replacing the barrel with either a 5.5" or a 6" octagon one.
Opening up the throats of the cylinder, a little work on the forcing cone, a really good set of target sights ( both rear and front ) with maybe a colored insert like my DAN WESSON has.
Also might consider a brass grip frame with a set of bone grips.
Of course a trigger job and a stainless bisley hammer that has been jeweled.
I even thought about adding a free spin pawl but not sure how they work!
Do you still open the gate to load or does it work like a colt?
Also need suggestions who to get to do the job with out breaking the bank!

Thanks
LONGTOM

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2008, 02:46:17 AM »

This would be a good place to start.

http://www.clementscustomguns.com/

Many thanks to Lloyd, 2 dogs, and others

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2008, 02:00:06 PM »

I'd suggest Clements of gallagher myself. Don't expect all that and not having it cost a bit though. Not specific on how much will "break the bank" but the octagon bbl alone can cost a few hundred. Add $100 for a good action job, $200 for a brass grip frame and having it fitted, refinishing, add another $125 minimum and the grips could be upwards of $150 and then having them fitted properly, add another $50+. To me, if one's gonna go this far but once, do it just as you want and have the actual cost be moot. Also be prepared for a wait of possibly 12 months or more.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2008, 04:00:46 PM »

Thanks guys:

I was hoping to get it done for $600-$800 range.
Might be wishful thinking on my part.
That's the main reason I haven't done it before now.
Wouldn't mind having it on an old 3 screw so it could be color cased the right way with bone and charcoal.
The factory treatment doesn't last to long if you use it much.
Time is not an issue.

It figures, with the economy the way it is and my business being way off that I would now deiced to go through with it.
I guess I have to much time on my hands with the slow business!

STILL THINKING!!!

LONGTOM

whiskey101 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2008, 04:17:27 PM »

Do it yourself!

You can pay a smith to cut the barrel down for you. At the same time you can have a new front sight added.

Order a brass grip frame and fit it yourself. There are good instructions all over the web and it is a slow going process, but easy to do.

Free spin pawl is a easy job.

I have always done my own trigger jobs on Ruger Single actions, but you could pay for this if need be. Often just a little polishing and a change of springs will result in a trigger that is pretty good. How good does the trigger need to be? This isn't going to be a bench rest gun, but you want it smooth. Try it yourself and then if it doesn't work pay a smith to clean it up.

Opening the throats is easy. Borrow or buy a reamer. Forcing cone can be set fixed when you have the barrel cut if it needs it. I wouldn't fix these unless the gun didn't shoot well though. If it shoots well now, why change it? I understand the need to tinker, but it may just be money wasted.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2008, 04:39:23 PM »

You missed the part about wanting an octagon barrel.

I have never done that kind of smithing.
I've changed factory grip frames and hammers and tinkered (THINKERED that's a good word) with a few rifles, but nothing with this much being done.
Like my grand father used to say
"SON IT'S NOT BAD TO NOT KNOW, WHAT'S BAD IS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW THAT YOU DON'T KNOW"
I know that I don't know!!!
Better leave it to someone more qualified than me.

LONGTOM

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2008, 11:13:15 AM »

Expect to pay closer to THREE TIMES your hoped for price if you have it done by any of the reputable custom handgun guys.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2008, 04:04:26 PM »

I guess I can always dream.

LONGTOM

Sverre A. · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2008, 02:59:55 PM »

"Do it yourself! "

Have you ever thought about us - who have 17 thumbs

?

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:33:20 PM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on August 20, 2008, 04:00:46 PM

Thanks guys:

I was hoping to get it done for $600-$800 range.
Might be wishful thinking on my part.
That's the main reason I haven't done it before now.
Wouldn't mind having it on an old 3 screw so it could be color cased the right way with bone and charcoal.
The factory treatment doesn't last to long if you use it much.
Time is not an issue.

It figures, with the economy the way it is and my business being way off that I would now deiced to go through with it.
I guess I have to much time on my hands with the slow business!

Don't neccessarily discount it completely. I've wanted a particualr project and didn't have the $100 to drop at the time. Bit by bit, I'd put a few dollars here and there aside dedicated for that project. That should be about ready to send off within a month or so. Took almost a year but it's gonna go out and then 1 few months later I'll get it back. Maybe a long time to some but I'll have exactly what iwant - no compromises. Decide what you really want and whenever possible set a little money asdie for it. Giving up now willl make you doing the "I wish I had" in short order.
Unfortuantely, you're NOT gonna get what you want done by a good smith for the hoped for $600-800 amount. Adding the colr case finish (Turnbull) will add another $200+ so you'd be looking at $1000 easily. Give that savings some time and you'll get it done.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2008, 11:16:27 AM »

The $1000.00 or a couple of hundred more is doable.
I might be getting my hands on an old three screw ( actually a set of them ) a 45colt, a 44mag, a 41mag, a 357mag and a 30 carbine all NIB or as NIB on a trade for a couple of rifles I have that a friend who is a RUGER nut wants real bad.
I HOPE!!!!!!

Be that as it may WARRIOR1 gave me the name of a gunsmith that may have a 45 colt octagon barrel but has no contact info for him.
Does anyone know of a JOHN GALLAGHER?

BLKHAWK:
this JOHN GALLAGHER wouldn't be the same as ( Clements of Gallagher ) you spoke of would it?

Any help on contact info for this person would be helpful.
I might as well start picking up the parts as I can find them like WARRIOR1 suggested.

Thanks to all for the comments and help with project.
I haven't given up on it yet!!!!!!!!!!

LONGTOM

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2008, 01:11:52 PM »

Yup, John Gallagher is who I spoke of and who I use for my projects. He's done two for me thus far and another will ship off to him within a month or so hopefully.

Here's his contact info:

johngallagher1@bellsouth.net

Gallagher Firearms
3923 Bird Farm Road
Jasper Al 35503

LONGTOM · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2008, 02:37:53 PM »

Thanks, I will get an email off to him tonight to check about the barrel and inquire about the other work I will need for this.

Thanks again

LONGTOM

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2008, 03:15:39 AM »

I guess to me your kind of going about this backwards. Dont get me wrong ive got a few guns that have some flash to them but when im having a custom built the first things i look at are the things you cant see. Things like freewheeling, action jobs, cylinder alingment. forcing cone cutting, barrel crowning. Blocking the cylinder to remove side play and taking care of endshake. To me if i had 800 bucks to spend on a gun id cut the barrel, have a bowen rear sight put on it and a custom post front sight and then have the gunsmith look at the gun and see which of the things i mentioned needed addressing. then if you walut still hasnt hit bottom look at the cosmetics. I would ooh and aw at a gun mechanicaly right before i would at some flashy looking thing that had a brass grip frame and a jeweled hammer and still was ruger quality on the inside.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2008, 10:56:34 AM »

I gotta agree with Llyod. All the cosmetic stuff isn't going to make it any better internally and certainly won't add any useful shootability to it. By all means get the look you want but if you're gonna spend the money to get the fancy appearance, spend a few hundred more and get the internals spiffed up too. It's well worth it.

Racer X · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2008, 02:05:53 PM »

The following is basic mechanical detailing reputable smiths recommend. Most likely, a Ruger 45 will need all of these:

1) Action Job
2) Free-wheel cylinder
3) Remove Endshake (if needed)
4) Set Barrel/Cylinder Gap to Minimum
5) Oversize locking basepin
6) Open cylinder throats
7) Recut forcing cone (if needed)

Recrown muzzle (if needed)
9) Bowen Target Rear
10) Custom Front (modified ramp or post)
11) Ejector Rod housing key (keeps housing from coming loose)
12) Set timing & headspace (as needed)

Using a reputable smith such as David Clements, Alan Harton or John Gallegar will cost around $700 - $850 for this work (including shipping). Personally, if I had $1200 to spend on another custom Ruger, I would have the smith find a 44 SBH cylinder and linebore & rechamber it for 45 Colt and do the above mentioned work (minus the cylinder work). Octogon barrels do look slick, but I wouldn't buy a custom Ruger that had cosmetic bells and whistles that lacked the basic mechanical detailing & accuracy tuning described above.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2008, 07:50:05 PM »

Not to worry boys that's all being taken care of.
Shot an email off to JOHN GALLEGAR last night and got a very quick reply back this morning.
He has two of his new barrels on hands.
A 5" and a 5.5" that will get all of his bells and whistles including a new steel ejector rod housing with an integral recoil lug to take the stress off the housing screw.
A S&W DX type front sight, not sure which rear sight yet.
A new over sized locking base pin.
An action job.
Sent him another email tonight about the free wheel cylinder and a few other things.
We dropped the brass frame idea.
Open up the throats.
I never thought about checking the timing. Will ask about that.
Front sight adjusted to my ammo.
And a full refinish of the whole gun.
This is on an as new BISLEY BLACKHAWK.
I also asked about all of the above on an as new BISLEY VAQUARO.
Don't know what the cost would be to mount the new rear sight.
Will find out in his next email.
Right now we stand at just a little over a $1000.00 for the whole job not counting the free wheel cylinder and the timing or the rear sight on the VAQUARO.
Don't sound bad for all I am getting.
What do you guys think?

LONGTOM

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** August 26, 2008, 02:13:24 AM »

if that is a oct barrel that price is a very good.

warrior1 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 26, 2008, 04:01:18 AM »

longtom if you figure in the me value for the conversion and that's what you want go for it. dan

LONGTOM · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2008, 03:44:41 PM »

Got another email from JOHN GALLEGAR today with the answers to the rest of my questions.
The free spin pawl cost $30.00.
The rear sight will be a BOWEN.
The VAQUARO is out as it is not really suited for their sight configuration.
The 6" barrel is out due to the fact that it isn't very popular and all of their barrels are done on a CNC program.
A 6" would call for a new program with at least 20 barrels to be cost effective.
That's ok with me.
A 5.5" will do fine.
Will have the timing checked also.
The total for everything including return shipping is $1050.00 with 1/2 now and the balance upon completion.
Right now turn around time is 6 to 8 weeks, not bad.
I think I will send him another email tonight and tell him he got the job.
Should have it back in time for deer season.

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.
Your help has been very much appreciated!
Will post pics when it is done along with a range report.

Thanks again guys!!
LONGTOM

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** August 26, 2008, 06:36:58 PM »

I just finished talking with JOHN.
I made a small mistake.
The BOWEN reat sight was not included in the $1050.00 price.
Add $85.00.
Total $1135.00

LONGTOM

LONGTOM · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2008, 08:21:09 AM »

Well it's to late now, I went and did it.
She's on her way to JOHN.
See here in about 6 to 8 weeks.
Had to go FED-EX EXPRESS OVERNIGHT -------WOW was that a shock!
$69.67 for a handgun.

Remember that boys if you secied to sell a gandgun.
Charge enough to cover shipping!

LONGTOM