Any deer this year?

[Star1pup]

I said I would not give PA another $101, but I did it again.  I wonder if I'll even see a deer in the Kane area this year.  They sure have been scarce the last couple of years.  I just like the ambience of the big woods up there, but I used to see a lot of deer even though most were not something I could shoot.  Seeing even the does made the trip worthwhile.

Guess I had better hunt hard here in Ohio during archery season if I want venison.

[DCRthe3rd]

Oh yes , one of my favorite questions. Sure we still have some deer running around.
No it is not like it was , you know ,lots of deer and big racks
,now we have little deer and fewer big racks.
But face it , it was NEVER a secret , the Game comm TOLD you they were going to cut the heard in almost half , A.S.A.P
No one cared , they were either to busy fishing , or they were fighting over antler restrictions.
The Game comm even stopped posting estimated deer numbers.
It is funny tho , when asked they blame everything from acid rain , to lazy hunters for the lack of deer sightings , when they had already told you , they were cutting the herd.
They even tend to cite gary alt as the cause Like they had nothing to do with it or his numbers they now claim were a "bit" overrated.
Nice , bring in your hired gun , then deny it all at all costs.
They got what they wanted ........ and we got what we deserved.
I still manage to have a decent hunting season , however I have so little sympathy for those I hear
crying more and more every year.
Please understand sir , I am not mad at you. I also understand you are an out of stater. My disgust centers around those who now find the time to complain , when they were warned beforehand , and did nothing. I just can't seem to shed a tear for those people.

[Star1pup]

Yeah.  They sure screwed up.  If it wasn't for a good friend having a camp up there, I's keep my license and gas money.  It's a 162 mile trip one way and I can hunt about 7 miles from my home in Ohio and just about guarantee seeing a lot of deer.

[DDelle338]

  I've been out 3 evenings and 1 morning so far during the archery season. I Bumped into two deer in the dark coming from my stand last week. Saw 1 spike, 1 5pt, and what I think might have been a 4 pt. The spike and 5 pt were together under my stand for about an hour last night. For the first time in all the years I've been hunting (34), I watched as the two of them were pushing their antlers together and pushing into each other. Not fighting, just kinda playing. I could have taken the 5pt, I think he was legal, but he had 1 Palmated (spelling) antler and I'm hoping he makes it through the season so I can see how it turns out next year. I left them go until it was pretty dark then I had to yell at them allot to make them leave the area so I could get down out of my tree.
  As for numbers, Four years ago there would have been a deer parade coming out of that thicket in the evening.

[DCRthe3rd]

I got a doe with the muzzleloader and the location of a buck I hopefully can get with the bow

[Graybeard]

My friend Barry who lives somewhat northeast of Pittsburg has been seeing plenty on his farm including a few legal bucks but so far has not dropped the hammer on one. He tends to drag it out every year. Unless he sees a big buck he seldom will take one during early bow season. Some times he will take a doe during the current early muzzle loader but hasn't taken the shots he's had so far.

I think cuz you guys get to take so few he likes to hunt and just drags it out until late before using his tags.

[Varmint Hunter]

I spent the money for an OOS license every year for as long as I can remember. For many years I had almost exclusive hunting privileges on a very large farm. We would take 1 or 2 deer each year. Never got greedy. Eventually the farm sold the hunting rights to a club and I never returned, but instead, began hunting State Game Land. Early on we would see deer on most opening mornings and several hunters would be dragging deer out by noon. I always had a doe tag but always passed up on them the first few days.

Well, I still get a doe tag but rarely even get the opportunity to fill it. Hunting pressure is WAY down but the deer just don't seem to be around. ??

I scouted a few miles of SGL 127 last week. Checked most known (old) hot spots for rubs & scrapes and came up almost empty. Walked several miles and found 2 rubs and no scrapes. Never saw a tail either. It's almost spooky.

Not sure where I'll hunt in PA this year.

[while99]

I have the same concerns. I spend the money every year for an OOS, but the last few years there have been very few deer.  I hunt mostly northern Clinton County on public ground.  When antler point restrictions were first implemented, our camp got some nice bucks for a few years.  Now, we almost never see a deer. 

[Bingo]

  I hunt near Indiana Pa. Although the population is down a little, I can still fill my freezer. As for the antler restriction, I have spotted 4-8's 2-10s a 12 and a 14 point with drop tines. That doesn't even that into count all the small racks that may be legal that I didn't give a second thought to or the 4's,6's and spikes that I saw all over the place.
   In the old days, it was normal for us to have 4-6 bucks in the barn on the first day. Since the antler restrictions hit, we are lucky to have that many in the rifle season,but, the ones we are getting are wall hangers.
   As for the drop in the herd, I feel the Game Comm. has under played the affect of EHD on the herd. Last year I found 25 dead deer on a 200 acre farm and the herd on another farm further south is so low that the land owner has closed his property to doe hinting. Good Man!!
   I also don't care what the Pa Game liars say, they have stocked coyote and mountain lion. We don't need either of those in this state. What burns my toast is that not one of the commissioners are hunters.
   Basically, I like the antler restriction, but they are going over board on reducing the herd.

[Davemuzz]

 
   I also don't care what the Pa Game liars say, they have stocked coyote and mountain lion. We don't need either of those in this state. What burns my toast is that not one of the commissioners are hunters.
   

Indiana is just up the road from New Alexindria Pa. where I spend a lot of time. Now, I just gotta point out that if there were any Mt. Lions roaming around our State, I would think that with all the trail cameras out there, and the 1 million licensed hunters, that at least one or two of 'em would get a picture. Plus, someone would surely whack one (and i'm not talkin about the same old pictures that have been on the net for the last 5 years about a huge Mt. lion killed in Pa. never happened).

I'm here too tell you that if I see a big 'ol cat, that "accidental discharge" thing could very well happen....right thru that cat's lungs. How did THAT happen!!!???

Dave

[Bingo]

  A farmer in Sarver Pa. shot one that had been taking his sheep. He call the Game Comm. and they told him there were no cats in the area. He shot it. The farmer is a friend of my hunting partner.

[Davemuzz]

Just so I'm clear on this. A farmer in Sarver shot a Mt. Lion and this Mt. Lion is dead....laying on his property. He calls the Game Commission and tells them this and they tell him he doesn't have a dead Mt. Lion laying on his property.

So, the Farmer says "OK" and hangs up the phone. I guess the cat has decomposed? Bones too? News media was never called or informed? I mean, it would be a pretty big news media event....you know....a big Mt. Lion killed in Pa.

Hey...I'm just askin.

Farmer just went about choppin wood and feedin pigs?...or sheep?....or whatever animals he owned?

Dave

[Davemuzz]

Archery season has been good to me this year!!! In the last week of Statewide archery, I arrowed a nice size (body...small rack) 5 point. And then by luck, this past week in WMU 2b (archery only for doe) I arrowed a nice fat one in my "backyard".

The buck only went 20 yards and dropped, and the doe was layin down and my angle was just too good. I went for the right below the neck straight into the heart\lung as she had her head turned (20 yards) and my arrow slammed right into her neck and she never moved.

I'm feeling like a real hero. One shot one each deer and no tracking.

 

Dave

[Bingo]

  No, the cat was taking his sheep. He called the game comm. and they said there were no cats. Then he went out and shot it. As far as he was concerned the less publicity the better so I thinking about it, I guess I did him a disservice. oops!

[Davemuzz]

Yeah......I'm thinkin the guy was tellin some pretty tall tails. You know.....spreadin fertilizer the hard way. There was no call to the PGC. There was no Mt. Lion shot. I don't care what words came from his mouth.

Dave

[Cuernos38]

Not sure I get it.. I was home to my farm in New Alexandria Pa and there was a lot of deer.. saw several really nice bucks and a few smaller ones.. I do like that fact that the count is down, but it is not enough.. I planted 8 rows of corn circling my 15acre field for the deer and turkeys.. No Dice.. they sacked it before it was old enough to mature.. not to mention the rest of the field.. I was just leaving the outer rings for the critters.. Our woods are barren.. no new growth..

You are right that the numbers are down, but they need to be... when they eat  everything on my place and I plant extra there are too many.. Carrying capacity is the issue here.. we still see 15-20 per night in our field in front of the house...I would like to see half of that.. They will drop 1-2 fawns each in the spring and then we have 40+.. I have hunted all over the nation, Kansas, Ohio, KY, GA, AL, NC and never saw numbers like we have.. but they have far nicer herds...

Open minds and progress will help.. Alt did a good job.. I didn't hear anyone complaining about what he did for the Bear population...

[Davemuzz]

Open minds and progress will help.. Alt did a good job.. I didn't hear anyone complaining about what he did for the Bear population...

Gary Alt's theroy of bigger bucks with "balanced heards" has been nothing but a a connection of barges full of ferterlizer being chugged up the Ohio River by a very small boat with a very small motor.

Alt's "Grand Plan" has now been in effect for 7 years here in Pa. So, in WMU 2D, where we are only allowed to shoot 4 points on one side,...in our local gun club (which we have a bit over 200 members)...in the last 2 years (this current archery year of 2008 and last year archery and rifle of 2007) there have been a total of 4 (yes....that's right FOUR) bucks that have been killed that would be considered "trophy" bucks. These would be 10 point or better with nice mass, and symmetrical racks. Of these 4, 2 had drop tines. Thats out of.....what...??...over 100 bucks per year being shot?

Hardly is Alt's plan of large bucks and happy hunters the case. Alt had stated it would take 4 years to acheive his goals. Well, here we are at 7 years and we have some bigger bucks......yeah....all 4 of 'em.

And we've been whackin the heck out of doe for the last 7 years. Of course, this was suppose to help leave more food to have bigger bucks.

Maybe we need to bring Alt back and issue more doe tags and kill more deer so there is more food so in 7 more years, our 200 members will be able to kill.....say 8 big rack bucks.

Cause you know.....those horns are pretty tasty.

Dave

[Varmint Hunter]

What really amazes me about some of the PA hunters who complain about seeing "no deer" anymore is that many of them are the very same people who readily buy 4-5-6 doe tags and try to fill them all. Even at this late date I noticed a poster who was thrilled to have 5 doe tags again this year.

I don't blame Gary Alt or the game commission as much as I do the hunters who were very happy to shoot an excessive number of deer, every year, at the pleasure of the PGC. With the help of the PGC, PA hunters did it to themselves.

That's just the way I see it, your mileage may vary.

[Davemuzz]

Yeah,

The "argument" of the PGC is "heard balance in line with land and food source". This is why they have broken down the State into "WMU's" (Wildlife Management Units) and the PGC issues doe tags to reduce the doe heards in these WMU's accordingly. The PGC also determines the "remaining" bucks that will be left to bread the late blooming doe via the point restriction on shooting the buck.

At least, that's their argument. And it was "sold" to the hunters on the argument that it will result in bigger rack bucks in a 4 year time frame. And here we are 7 years later. Yes, we have more bigger rack bucks, but now we have 5 per year from 200 hunters instead of 2 like we did 10 years ago. WOW...a whole increase of 3 large rack bucks. That was worth it....eh?

You can't believe how many "dinks" (a "dink" is what we call a big body buck with a tiny rack. Bad genes produce more bucks with bad genes.....tiny racks produce more bucks with tiny racks.) we see. So....we kill all the big rack bucks, and leave the small ones live to reproduce.

What do you think we are going to end up with in the long run? (A) a bunch of large rack bucks....or (B) a bunch of DINKS?

Well.....it's been 7 years and I'm still seeing a whole bunch of DINKS!

Dave

[Bingo]

 The big bucks are the dominant breeders and should kick the buts of the 'dinks' if they try to breed with the local does.
 The only draw back is the archers. A person with a bow may take a dominant buck in the rut.

Although in the old days we could have 5 or 6 bucks in the barn on opening day, now we do see and take more good bucks although the numbers are down. As for the freezer, I fill mine with doe. I have a wall hanger. It would take one HUGE BUCK to best him so most of the time I let bucks pass to shoot small does for the freezer. I even let the big breeder doe pass by. Most of them have twins and I like that!

[shotgunner]

I own a farm in Tioga county. I am seeing a lot more big bucks these days, and took a nice 8 point during archery season. I used to spend opening day counting does, 50 - 75 a day, without seeing a buck. I do think the big bucks are harder to kill, you have to do your homework. A neighbor complained to me yesterday that now the small bucks are doing all the breeding, does not make much since as the rut is done before the season starts. I think that Gary Alt had it right and did exactly what he wanted to do. Get off your butt and hunt a little, leave those dumb little forkhorns alone. Get over it and enjoy the opener. Shotgunner

[Bingo]

  Shotgunner....I like your attitude and agree with you!

[Varmint Hunter]

I own a farm in Tioga county. I am seeing a lot more big bucks these days, and took a nice 8 point during archery season. I used to spend opening day counting does, 50 - 75 a day, without seeing a buck. I do think the big bucks are harder to kill, you have to do your homework. A neighbor complained to me yesterday that now the small bucks are doing all the breeding, does not make much since as the rut is done before the season starts. I think that Gary Alt had it right and did exactly what he wanted to do. Get off your butt and hunt a little, leave those dumb little forkhorns alone. Get over it and enjoy the opener. Shotgunner

Hunting on private farmland is quite different than hunting public hunting areas in PA. Try hunting large tracks of wooded public land and see how many deer you observe today. Last year I did not see a single deer, not even a doe, harvested on the SGL on opening day or the day following. Several years ago the same parcel would produce a few decent bucks and several does for who ever had tags and wanted to fill them.

Most hunters who have access to farmland are fortunate enough to be where larger numbers of deer concentrate (for the food source) and also where the hunting pressure is considerably lower. Deer management strategies that work for one area may very well not have the same results in the other. Public land appears to have had a MAJOR reduction in the number of whitetails while private farms tend to have sustaining populations.

I have been hunting more & more in North Carolina. There is almost no deer management that I can see from reading the regs. However, every year many good bucks, average bucks and quite a few does are harvested with no ill effect on the herd. You can go back the next year and see just as many bucks and does. For whatever reason, they didn't need the Alt deer management strategy down there.

One thing is for sure; if you hunt where the deer are scarce you will likely have a disappointing hunt. Several years of this have caused many of the SGL areas to be very under-utilized. This may also be one reason that hunting license sales are falling in many areas.

Just my 2 cents

[shotgunner]

I agree with you that farm land is different then big woods, which is why they went from countys to WMUs. The other side of the coin is that on some fams, the corn crop is decimated by deer, and there is a very real need to control it. You can not compare PA to a southern state. The carolina hunters traditionally used hounds to hunt the swamps, nothing like the woods up here. It all comes down to habitat. Less deer and healthier deer are good for everyone.
   I just hope that it does not rain again tomorrow. It rained last year on opening day, and it rained this year for the NY opener. I want to stay dry. Shotgunner

[Graybeard]

From what I hear from my friend up there in PA there should be no rain but rather snow on the ground so the deer will stand out like sore thumbs. I predict a banner year for you PA guys tomorrow. Look like a pumkin with plenty of orange cuz the bullets they gonna be a flying.

[Davemuzz]

I own a farm in Tioga county.

Is this farm surrounded by little signs that read "POSTED NO TRESPASSING"? Like 99% of the farm property in Pa?

[BCB]

I live in Clarion County and the area I hunt is about 50% posted.  My property is not posted.  There will be a few hunters pass through, but not too many.  My cousins live near Pittsburgh and they come up and hunt many of the adjoining properties, but the hunters we used to see (20 years ago) just ain’t around anymore.  The deer don’t get pushed and shoved around like many seasons of the past…

I have a small cabin (only a couple hundred square feet!) that is where I hunt.  I will walk about the property and if I get too cold or wet, I can go to the cabin and get warm and then hit it again.  Nope, I don’t sit in the cabin and look out the windows!  I use it in the summer/fall months to go to and relax after a rough day/week at work!  I cook on an open fire and just plain enjoy it.  I plant a small garden of several crops, mostly experimental stuff.  But something seems to eat it every year—don’t matter…

The antler restrictions are—well, in all honesty, I don’t know if I have an opinion on that  or not.  I could have shot several antlered deer the past several years, but I simply did not know if they had 4 points on one side.  And, really where I hunt, to take one that had 3 points on one side would, of course it would be illegal, but a person would never get caught.  Yet, I have gone home empty-handed for several years now.  I have not even taken a doe, although I get license.  My wife and I each come for large families, so there seems to always be a give-away deer available…

I strictly hunt with a handgun anymore.  My right eye has a blind spot in the middle so any type of sights with that eye is out of the question.  Guess I will need to learn to shoot left-handed!  So I can hold the handgun out in front and use the left eye.  Tomorrow it will be a Ruger Blackhawk 45 Long Colt and a T/C 14” in 7-30 Waters caliber for the longer shots—it’s ‘scoped.  The wife will use a Model 1894 Marlin in 357 Magnum with a 358429 cast boolit.  It’s a good shooter…

Now to the Mountain Lion thing…the only reason I tell this is because the wife was with me one evening 2 summers ago and we were hunting groundhogs with my T/C Super 16” in 223 Remington caliber.  We were driving onto a hay field using a pre-existing tractor road that ran near the wooded area that surrounded the field.  There was a pipeline that cut through the wooded area.  We both say something jump across the pipeline so quickly that a blink of the eye would have caused it to not be seen, and it resembled a very, very big cat!  As a matter of fact, it was larger than a bobcat by almost double.  I asked the wife what we just saw and she said a cougar!  Well, I don't know about that, but it was a big cat.  As true as I am writing this, we saw what I just described.  I have heard rumors in the area, but maybe they aren’t rumors?  I don’t know and I don’t repeat this story anywhere.  And so it goes…

Well, good luck to all hunters in the Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.  Be safe…BCB

[shotgunner]

My farm is not posted, and I am not in the state clean and green program as most of my neighbors are. I read what the guys write that hunt on public land, like the money they spend on a hunting licence entitles them to some privilege. If that was the case then people who hunt on private land should not need to buy one. I buy a licence and I pay property tax, and I am not one of the ones who is complaining. Tomorrow morning I will take my daughter out and hope she shoots a buck. People forget to mention that juniors and seniors can still shoot a small buck. I feel bad that my oldest son will miss the morning hunt, he is in college. Good luck to all of you, I am afraid the rain will wash most of the snow away. I have along barreled 25-06 that I have yet to shoot a deer with. I will wait until I find a big doe, as I said I filled my buck tag already. Shotgunner

[Graybeard]

Yeah my friend reported to me tonight that the rain has been coming down up there and so that snow he showed me photos of might be gone by tomorrow morning after all. Or then it might just turn to snow again tonight and you might wake up in the morning to a white landscape.

Down here it Bama it's been raining for the last three days and isn't over yet. The wind chimes are singing loudly out on the front porch.

[Davemuzz]

7:15 AM on the opening day of Rifle. The good news is the rain has pretty much stopped and it looks like maybe on and off light drizzle.....more off than on. That's good for the hunters. Bad news is the snow that was there is gone and it didn't get cold enough to turn any of that rain last night into snow.

But!!!......Better that what was expected! I hope everyone has a good day and comes back safe!

Dave.

(Me...I feel fortunate and blessed this year that I took my buck in archery)