Winchesters new Controlled Round "Push" Feed (CRPF

[Zachary]

Have you guys heard anything about this new bolt action design? :?   Winchester says that it's a cross between the controlled round feed (like the Model 70) and the push feed (like the Remington 700).

Kinda sounds like something that's going no where fast. :roll:

What do you guys think?

Zachary

[vmaxx]

I think it is a cheeper way to make a rifle. They will not need to taper the bolt or the barrel for that matter but still it is probably a better system than what remington has on their 700's.

[Dave in WV]

I read it's for the new Super Short Mag cartridges since they don't work well in a true controlled round feed. They still have the Featherweight in CRF since most who will buy it are more traditional minded. Dave

[coug2wolfs]

I ain't quite figgered out what they are talking about yet.  I can say with great certainty that a straight push feed with a mauser type extractor isn't worth a hill of beans on the new WSM rounds in the Browning bolts.  I do not believe the Rem RUM rifles are any better, they can't be.

Winchester may in fact be on to something here.  Back when the "claw" extractor was the big news of the year in the Model 70 FW I had one in 270, another in 30-06.  Was the dangdest thing I ever saw!  You could in fact tip the rifle upside down and load and unload shells without a hitch!  Would have been queersome firin it like that I would think, and as such, I never tried it.  But the system did work, I'll give em that.

Not sure what it is with the short and fat stuff.  Loaded ammo goes in an out like berries through a goose.  The s^#t starts to bind when the case is fired.    Then the chubby empty wants to flip 180 in the chamber.  Why this is I have not figgered out yet, but then I don't get paid to do that

I find it sane that Kimber chooses to build a whole new action just for these punk rounds.  I'll bet a dollars worth a jelly doghnuts that theirs will work!

Other en that, I dunno???

[Zachary]

I find it sane that Kimber chooses to build a whole new action just for these punk rounds.  I'll bet a dollars worth a jelly doghnuts that theirs will work!
quote]

My Kimber Montana that I have on order is in .300WSM, so I'm curious as to how well their action will feed those punk rounds.  After all of the rave reviews that I heard about Kimber, your jelly doghnuts bet would seem like a real safe bet.

Zachary

[Mikey]

Coug:  Howdy!  I read your post about the shorter rounds in the push/controlled feeds and the 180 degree flip you mentioned reminded me of a 788 I once had.  Every time I extracted a fired case the dang thing would get kicked back into the magazine area when it bounced off the horizontal scope adjusting knob.  I finally cured that by rotating the scope 90 degrees.  But, if you were seeing a 180 flip I wonder 2 things:  was the rifle scoped and, do you think the shoulder on (that short fat case) next in line in the magazine impacted on the rim of the extracting round causing it to flip????  Just curious.  Thanks.  Mikey.

[coug2wolfs]

Mikey

I dunno. According to Browning, they are "aware of the problem". If I had invested in one of them Browning bolts in 300WSM I'd be real interested in a CURE, not recognition of the problem.

They claim it's in the clip.  I think they are F.O.S!  But just to give em the benifit of the doubt, we PULlED the clip, and guess what. Same same.

What's really weird is it yarded out loaded rounds like you want em to come out.

I don't believe the empty is long enough to gain the mechanical advantage of being flipped sideways as the bolt travel is too long for the case IMO.

It's kinda like draggin a log behind a wheeler, there just ain't nothin to keep it straight until it can be torqued out.  This is why I believe the Winchester claw extractor just may be the ticket for this delemer.

I had another bolt, can't remember for the life of me what one it was, but I seem to remember the cases lacking any zest in getting out of the rifle.  As a rule I don't hang on to a gun that acts like that, huntin season is too short to take the chance.

That's why I never warmed up to auto loaders, just when you strat to trust em they'll do like the Red Socks, they'll break your heart :wink:

[coug2wolfs]

Zachary

The rest of the gun companies should buy a Kimber a LEARN what it is we're looking for.

Think about this for a spell, a weatherby UL is in the $1200 range, I saw a Browning white Medallion that had a tag on it that said $902.  Rems and Winchesters are not being given away these days either.

Now for UNDER $800 you can own a Kimber 84M, why would anyone buy any other kind of bolt gun?

Are we to believe Kimber has less expensive manufacturing costs? I think not.  In fact, on the scale they are building them, I would think it costs MORE!  But just maybe, Kimber does not have to feed all the corporate freeloaders that the bigger gun companies have :wink:

Do a stare and compare to just about any other rifle.  Marlins and Rugers aren't that far off the price of a Kimber, and niether even belongs in the same gun case with the 84M, they're worlds apart.

The quality of wood, the fit and finish of wood and metal, the hand cut checkering done in good taste.  Match grade barrel, chamber and trigger.  The Kimbers shoot, I mean they shoot!

I've had guns in my hand since I was 7 years old and I'm tellin it straight, I never saw a rifle that even comes close to the Kimbers.  The fact that they can do it, right here in America, tells me that we are being taken to the cleaners by the rest of them snivelin gun buildin varmits :?

I will be glad when you get your rifle so I can take a rest from praisin them Kimbers.  I just KNOW ya'll are gonna LOVE it!

[Zachary]

Coug,

From what I understand, I wholly agree with your comparisons.  
Specifically, your average stainless/synthetic remchester will cost you, say, about $550 to $650.

Now, get a trigger job ($50) and recrown the barrel ($50), your up to an additional $100, meaning the cost of the gun is now about $650 to $750.

Okay, the Kimber has a match grade barrel and chamber.  You can't have a gunsmith do any work to bring it up to this "Match" status, so say that this is worth about $100 - and that's being very conservative.  That means that the gun now costs between $750 to $850.  

Wanna have a match grade action?  Well, you can have the remchester action blue printed for about $200.  That means that the gun now costs between $950 to $1,050.

Fit and finish on the Kimbers is, from what most people say, second to none, and the wood on the Kimbers is exceptional.  Okay, you really can't have a gunsmith really work on a remchesters "fit and finish," but say that such overall work would cost about an additional $100 - and that too is probably very conservative.  That means that the remchester now costs between $1,050 and $1,150.

Kimbers are glass bedded.  Okay, I know that many people can glass bed their own actions.  I can't.  My gunsmith charged me $150 to do the work on one rifle because he was going to do pillar bedding and use hex screws.  My other rifle (which was an HS precision stock that already had pillars and hex screws, cost $100).  Anyway, lets just say that it costs an additional $100.  That means that the remchester now costs between $1,150 and $1,250.

Okay, let's see....A Kimber is about $800 and a somewhat equal remchester is about $1,250.  Yea Coug, I would certainly agree that the big gun manufacturers could LEARN alot from Kimber.

The only other gun that I believe is great quality for the money is the Tikka.  I really can't compare the Tikka to the Kimber because I haven't held a Kimber in my hands, but Remchester could at least learn a thing or two from Tikka too.

For me, it's just not worth it anymore to buy a remchester and then have a gunsmith really make it right.  Sure, a new stock Remington 700 can probably outshoot many other brands out of the box.  But regardless of how well it shoots, you just can't compare a stock Remchester to a stock Kimber.

Coug, your thoughts are not only agreeable, but also highly appreciated. :wink:

Zachary

[SHW]

What makes this "CRPF" different from the Sako 75 action?  They seem similar except for the three lug v/s the two lug design.  I have only seen pictures of the Win. "CRPF".

[vmaxx]

I read an article where they tested these short magnum rounds and none of them grouped very well. 1-1/2 moa was about the best they could do and they tried some hand loads and they did not do much better. They sure don't have me wanting one. I'll stick to the longer cases myself where feeding and ejections are not a problem. Also much better accuracy.