Author Topic: Possible Savage 219?  (Read 1114 times)

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Offline RicinYakima

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Possible Savage 219?
« on: July 25, 2008, 05:30:13 PM »
Guys, I need some help here.

I recently traded for a gun that I think is a Savage 219. The reason is that one of the barrels is a 30/30 with common Savage markings and Model 219.

However, the action is totally (!) unmarked and with no serial number. The other two barrels are also unmarked. One says: "12 Ga 2 3/4 inch" and "JM" and a small bullet looking mark. The other is "9MM RF" and underneath, "357" in different letters and done after bluing.
The stock, after I removed the paint, is roll stamped "Survival Rifle" and underneath "fusil sop*ort*" which I think says "fusil sopporto".

Anyone have any thoughts on what this is? Thanks in advance.

Ric

Offline Rangr44

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Re: Possible Savage 219?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 03:37:19 AM »
It's tough, working blind, but here goes:

What you have is most likely, IMO, a 12ga Savage Model 220 shotgun, that's been reworked for/by someone into a multi-barreled combination set - probably when no such thing was available commercially.

Many Savage M-220 shotguns were made (pre-68) w/o serial numbers, and some not marked at all except for arcane assembly numerals/letters. Look for additional markings inside the action, particularly in the hinge & barrel lug area.

It was once quite common, when both were regular production items as entire arms and as parts, to install Model 219 rifle barrels on the shotgun frame and vice-versa - just as with the H&R Handi, today.

As a matter of fact, Savage even used to offer the M-219 in a rifle/shotgun combination set (rare now).

The (.355/.356) 9mm and the .357 Magnum share bore diameters close enough to allow conversion of a rifled 9mm barrel to the longer, etc, .357 with the proper re-chambering - ergo the caliber remark.
The original, rifled 9mm barrel might have come fron "God know where", but most likely from some equally arcane European rifle, since that caliber was once popular over there, pre-WW II.
The rechambered barrel could have easily been turned to fit a snubbed .410 shotgun barrel stub (which would have had the hinge parts, etc) that got bored out for the barrel to slide in & get soldered/sweated in place permanently.

The "fusil, etc" would be my take on the non-English (probably Italian or Spanish) term for "rifle stock", leading me to believe the so labelled stock might be an imported replacement part/stock.

That's about as close as I can come, by tapping my cane.  ;)

YMMV.

.
There's a Place for All God's Creatures - Right Next to the Potatoes & Gravy ! !

Offline RicinYakima

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Re: Possible Savage 219?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 02:57:51 PM »
Rangr44,

Thank you for the reply.

I have traced it back to the family that traded it in at the gun shop. The Ray family had a Cessna plane and hunted all over the west. The father, Art, bought the rifle from the Anderson Gun Shop in Yakima, WA (I found his name scratched under the added recoil pad with the date 12-24-71). Anderson's appears to have bought several dozen of these as military surplus from South America, re-chambered them from 9MM, and sold them as 12 gauge (with "Savage" marked poly-chokes) and 357 sets. They were new and unused. The shotgun barrel has been fired some, but the 357 is unused. Art put a recoil pad on the stock, as he was a tall man, and that gives it a 14 1/2 inch pull.

When the family sold the plane, that they kept the set in, they found a old 30/30 barrel and have used it as a plinker since the 1980's.

The best I can come up with a translation from the internet is "fusil sopporto" is Portuguese for "Rifle, Support" which makes sense with "Survival Rifle" stamped on the stock in English.

The blue and color casehardening is 95% and the wood looks a lot better with all the yellow paint stripped off.

So my next question is "what type of butt plate did the 219/220 originally have?"

Thanks,

Ric

Offline Rangr44

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Re: Possible Savage 219?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 02:21:22 AM »
[I have traced it back to the family that traded it in at the gun shop.] - B4, or after, your OP ?



My 219's, that I owned in the 1960's, all had thin, hard black rubber/plastic buttplates - or do you already know the answer to that ?

I couldn't tell you if the 220's had the same or a recoil pad, since  never looked twice at a 220 shotgun, because (at the time) I wouldn't get caught dead with a SB shotgun.
There's a Place for All God's Creatures - Right Next to the Potatoes & Gravy ! !

Offline RicinYakima

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Re: Possible Savage 219?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 02:02:16 PM »
Rangr44,

That was after the original post. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you or make light of your help, but received some information from another forum. This is only one of three that I asked those questions on.

I've never looked at a 220 either, as I am not a shotgunner at all. My Savage rifles are model 23's, so didn't know if 219's would have the same type of metal butt plates or some thing else.

Best wishes, Ric

Offline Rangr44

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Re: Possible Savage 219?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 05:03:35 AM »
That's OK - I'm the one who's shorts are a wound a little too tight these last several days, since I'm towards the end of a treatment period prior to a medical procedure scheduled for this week.
There's a Place for All God's Creatures - Right Next to the Potatoes & Gravy ! !