Author Topic: .256 Winchester necked down to .224 caliber? (Read 1546 times)

Couger · « **on:** July 17, 2008, 12:36:43 AM »

Does anyone know of a wildcat - the .256 Winchester necked down to .224 caliber?

I'm aware that Stimpylu has shared with GBO info about his project to neck the .357 Maximum down to .224, but is there another wildcat based on the shorter .256 Winchester (or .357 Magnum) necked down to .224 caliber?

For those unaware, the .256 Winchester is the .357 Magnum necked to .257 Cal.

I'm interested in the .224/.357Mag or .224/.256Win as another rimmed-.224 cal cartridge-alternative to the .22 Hornet or .218 Bee.

Thanks ahead of time.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:01:01 AM »

Couger

Not a true Wildcat as they still make some brass for it but no factory loaded ammo or guns anymore = the 22 Rem Jet .

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/p22rj.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,147907.0.html

Its my latest project based on the 357 Mag case .

stimpy

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:35:38 AM »

Couger

Here are some FPS numbers to compare . all based on a 40 grain bullet except the 22LR ( * )

22 Long Rifle =1150 - 1280 fps *

22 magum = 1900 - 2150 fps

22 RemJet = 1770 - 2290 fps

22 Hornet = 2400 - 2800 fps

218 Bee = 2600 - 3130 fps

224GNR = 2550 - 3380 fps

stimpy

30-06man · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2008, 07:07:46 AM »

2 things I found that you might need.

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2008, 08:04:01 PM »

What you are looking for has been done as the 22-256. I'd rather run rim counterbore for the 357 in a 221 Fireball chamber and reform the 357 Max case to a rimmed Fireball. More sound load data is available. Truly I' d rather be shooting then reforming cases.
Google 22-256 Win and see what comes up.

ironglow · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:17:58 PM »

Didn't Ruger have trouble with the .22 Jet in that single shot pistol they made ? Seems i recall that the long taper of the case caused the case head to set back
firmly against the breech after firing, causing stiff removal..
Don't know if there was any kind of problem in rifles..

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:31:19 PM »

ironglow

Don't know much about the Ruger , but that's why S&W dropped the mod 53 in Rem Jet , it was causing the cyl to lock up if the chambers were not perfitly clean and free of any kind of lube .

Can't see this being a problem with the Handi with its standing breach and no gap needed for a cyl to rotate . From all that I've been able to find the H&R Jet did very well till all the ammo companies stopped making ammo .

stimpy

bilmac · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:44:49 PM »

I think the jet was only chambered in a S&W revolver and that is where it caused trouble. It doesn't take much to stop a revolver cylander. Stinpey, was your data for the jet possibly from a revolver. It just doesn't seem up to what the case capacity would seem to indicate.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:58:53 PM »

bilmac

The FPS numbers were from a old Lyman manual and the test gun listed was the S&W 53 , when you compare it to the newer 22 mags there is no real advantage going to the Jet other than the fact that it can be reloaded .

And I want one .

stimpy

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2008, 10:14:46 PM »

I think the 22 Jet is an abomination in more ways than one.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2008, 04:33:24 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on July 20, 2008, 10:14:46 PM

I think the 22 Jet is an abomination in more ways than one.

Don't know if I would go that far but yes its one of many rounds that does not make a whole lot of sense given the track record it has and the newer rounds that will do anything it will or better .

The Jet does suffer from a poor case design along with a very limited case cap & bullet selection , that being said it does fill a small niche as a close range Varmint shooter's round out to 100 yards were report needs to be kept low and the fact that it can be hand loaded gives it an advantage over the 22 Mag .

stimpy

Fred M · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2008, 07:29:23 AM »

stimpylu32
All that you said can be done with the 220 Russian or the improvement of it,
the 22PPC or the 22PPC 1/8" short. Now you have a cartridge that will have enormous case live, super accuracy, economical reloading, low noise, practical no recoil, and Lapua
brass, the finest, is available. With the available high standard of performance, why would anybody even think about a 22Jet.

Abomination is perhaps a too strong a name.

Ireload2 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2008, 03:51:45 PM »

I think abomination is pretty good. I can remember reading the original test article of the .22 Jet in the H&R Topper about 1964.
Groups started out huge and got down to about 6 " or so as they used Brobst bore compound to clean it.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2008, 04:33:31 PM »

The 220 Russian Case does not have a rim. Stimpy likes those rims.

I do not think he is all that concerned with accuracy or velocity. He is looking for some thing different than every one else and a fun project. Fred, every thing you said is true. I am haveing a ball with the 221 Fireball. I would be better off with the 22 PPC, but I have this thing for 222 Rem cases and it's off spring and the 3/8" case fits in my cordless drill very neatly.

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:00:59 AM »

That Ruger handgun, a single shot adapted from a revolver was the model 77 Hawkeye..it was chambered in .256 Win..and I thought the .22 Jet for a short run,
but I could be wrong.
Although the .256 Win didn't work well in the Hawkeye..I think it would be a "fun round" in an NEF...Marlin did put it in a lever (62?) though !

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:27:25 AM »

ironglow

Ya the Hawkeye was done in the Rem Jet also , but it too suffered from the same problems as the S&W were the gap between the case head and the breach face would allow the case to move back upon firing and lock up the gun .

Were as the Marlin in 256 Win Mag did not have this problem as it had a solid breach face to contain the case along with a better case design that did not lend itself to the set back of the Jet .

Many will say , Why would you want to spend all the time and money to form and reload this round when a 22 Mag will do the same job at around the same cost ?

The short answer is , Because I want to .

stimpy

ironglow · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:31:45 AM »

I get you, Stimpylu;
I would like a few extra barrels for my NEFs..among them a .256 Win Mag and a .32 H&R..
Seems like either one would be fun at short to medium ranges on varmints & coyotes..

Couger · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2008, 05:45:37 AM »

Thanks fellas for all your replies. Glad I was able to generate some gun gack.

Was looking at my copies of P.O. Ackley's cartridge volumes and on pages 255-256, ole Parker O. mentions the .22 Remington Jet, but also the .22 Super Jet.

The .22 Super Jet is an Ackley-improved version of Remington's "abominidable" experiment, and the .22 "Sabre" is essentially the same round made from .357 brass instead of a parent Remington Jet case.

Where can a fellow find dies for the .22 Super Jet/Sabre? Thanks again!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2008, 06:00:25 AM »

RCBS lists the 22 SJ die set for $143, CH4D has a set for $78.

Tim

http://www.ch4d.com/

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=194593&t=11082005

Couger · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2008, 07:45:28 PM »

Thanks QuickTD.

I should have also asked, "Where can a fellow find a reamer to make a barrel in the Super Jet? And any other necessary tools or jigs for chambering and such?

Thanks.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2008, 01:33:22 AM »

Couger

Here is the first place that I would look , they do have others not listed on their web site too .

http://www.4-dproducts.com/index.php

And their a GBO Sponsor to boot .

stimpy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2008, 04:34:07 AM »

If Fred doesn't have it, the next source would be PT&G, they can make ya one for $147.

Tim

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/reamers/chamber.htm