Author Topic: Is it just me or am I out of touch with reality ? (Read 2447 times)

Country Boy · « **on:** July 09, 2008, 06:46:01 AM »

I'm not sure how to phrase this. I just can"t get used to a bolt action rifle for deer hunting. Oh, I've used and still use some bolt actions. However, when stalking through the woods and fields in Mo. since 1955 a lever seems just right to me. Some guys prefer semi's,pumps ect. Almost every time I read a gun rag they are spouting about a new rifle, bolt actions, a lever is quicker,rides better in a saddle scabard, has a slimer profile ect. I guess old timers like me are just out of step with modern hunting.
I get the impression that most people are more interested in shooting small groups than actually hunting.

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:00:53 AM »

I'm far from being an old timer but i prefer levers....They just tend to handle and balance so much better.... I have always preferred the winchesters.....

bilmac · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:11:24 AM »

I hunt with bolts most of the time, You just have to watch too many 250+ yard shots walk away here in Wyoming if your'e shooting a 30-30. But a lot of the shots I can remember were when I was using a lever. A lot of them were shots that almost made my jaw drop. You all are right, something about the handling.

GrampaMike · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2008, 09:36:39 AM »

Sorry "Country Boy" ... It is You... but not only you... don't change.

Country Boy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2008, 11:32:28 AM »

Forgot to say my levers are a Winchester 88, Browning blr and Savage 99. 243 , 308 and .358 win. coveres most anything I will hunt.

HEAD0001 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2008, 04:00:02 PM »

There are way too many used lever actions out there. The mfrs. can not make any money on a used ll ever action. They only make money on the new fangled product, and the gun writers do not get a free hunting trip by recommending a used lever action!!

This argument is just like the argument about premium bullets. I am amazed my cast bullets can kill a rabbit, when you compare them to the newfangled $1 bullet. Tom.

mattmillerrx · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2008, 05:07:44 PM »

I am with ya. I am a leveraholic now. I hunted with one when I was a kid and just got my first one last year. There are so many I want, I will get someday with money permitting. They are so versatile for the type of hunting I like to do.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2008, 05:29:38 PM »

I've gone back to my levers again as well. For just bummin' around they are sweet. If I'm hunting in close cover, lever or single shot is with me. But then for the Big Sky Country I live in, Some of the shots are out there a ways. Not to hard to find places around here where if you're on a high spot in the prairie, you can see for miles ALL around you. DP.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2008, 12:16:48 AM »

Country Boy - you are hardly alone................... Mikey.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2008, 05:58:45 AM »

to BILMAC:

Some of us may live on the east coast but we still have a chance at a longer shot now and then.
On my farm I have a couple of fields where 500+ yd shots are present.
I didn't say I take these shots, but they are there.
That is why I often carry a WIN model 94 big bore in 307 caliber.
With 150gr factory ammo 300 yds is really not a problem.
It's only a couple of hundred fps behind the 308.
At the range I get lots of laughs from the guys when I bring out the levers until the 307 goes off. Then they all say I don't know what that was, but it sure ain't no 30-30 that's for sure!

LONGTOM

bilmac · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2008, 06:35:51 AM »

I'm not quite as enamored with levers as you are. I like them because they are light and slim. The 30-30 is about the ultimate cartridge for these guns. When you need a heavier bulkier gun or one that hurts when you touch it off then I'll just switch to a bolt. I'm also a hardcore handloader, and levers are not really the best for that.

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2008, 08:25:44 AM »

30-30= Ultimate lever gun ?? You gotta be kiddiin me.

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2008, 10:25:16 AM »

"I'm also a hardcore handloader, and levers are not really the best for that." I sure wished someone had told me that before now. I could have saved all that time in the shop loading for my twelve centerfire levers for the last 40 odd years including a .444, .45-70, 3 BLR's (.223,.257,.308) and a Browning '95 in '06.

Never used a .30-30 on game and havent' carried a bolt gun in 30 years. Please forgive me, I just get flustered that a lot of folks feel that lever action only means pistol shells or .30-30. Indicates vary narrow-minded thinking.

Tencubed · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2008, 04:22:52 PM »

I've taken game, mostly deer, elk and bear, with levers in 25-35, 30-30, 32WCF, 30-40, 30-06, 38-55, 405 and 45-70. Cast bullets and jacketed stuff. Haven't used a factory load on game since I was maybe 16 or 17 so have been around the lever guns quite a bit. Sure wish I had known the old 30-30 was the "ultimate" of them all. Would have saved me having to decide which rifle to pack around.

Having spent more hours than I really wanted to on a horse with a '94 in the boot I gotta agree with "Country Boy" that the levers are the best for this use. I've also used bolt guns, pump action, autoloaders and single shots off a horse but there's something about the balance of a '94 or '95 that just suits being in a boot and shooting from a horse.

Anymore the bolt guns tend to punch holes in paper or get used for varmints. The single shots and levers will reach out as far as I need too. And I've seen some very long shots made with lever actions. Lot's of the men I grew up around were very good shots with what they carried on a daily basis.

There's something about packing a rifle that was made around the turn of the last century that just makes a hunt a bit more special for me.

Mike

vanbuzen9 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2008, 07:35:03 AM »

I think it's quite funny hearing people talk about 300 yard plus shots, and it's really funny hearing them talk about doing this with a lever action rifle, in any caliber. I personally would never take a shot that far, even with a bolt action rifle. At this range, it is more like "gambling" than hunting. Sure, you may hit an animal at that range, but it's not because your a good shot, it's because you got LUCKY. I have much more respect for a hunter that stalks to within a reasonable range than a hunter that takes pot shots across fields and gets lucky.

fishinhuckle · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2008, 01:40:31 PM »

Hey Vanbuzen

Ya hear of the new marlin 308 lever rifle. It's kinda plain and simple a 308 will hit at 300 yds. There are also many hardcore lever guys with 45-70 and 444 that will make short work of a 300 yd shot with em. Just because people think of these rifles as old and slow, don't overlook what they are capable of in the right hands. Ask an old dead buffalo...

Huck

kevthebassman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2008, 01:54:32 PM »

Quote from: vanbuzen9 on July 24, 2008, 07:35:03 AM

I think it's quite funny hearing people talk about 300 yard plus shots, and it's really funny hearing them talk about doing this with a lever action rifle, in any caliber. I personally would never take a shot that far, even with a bolt action rifle. At this range, it is more like "gambling" than hunting. Sure, you may hit an animal at that range, but it's not because your a good shot, it's because you got LUCKY. I have much more respect for a hunter that stalks to within a reasonable range than a hunter that takes pot shots across fields and gets lucky.

Boy, you sure are opening up a can of worms with this one. I'm not much of a shooter, but a 300 yard shot isn't all that far with a bolt gun and a high-powered, flat shooting cartridge like a .270.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2008, 03:55:34 PM »

To vanbuzen9:

I don't call it pot shots or luck when I can take my WINCHESTER model 70 in 270 wsm with factory WINCHESTER 130gr BTs and from a rest put three shots inside of 3" at 300 yards and have them hit only 3" to 4" below point of aim with a +1.5" zero at 100 yards. I have done this several times for people who don't believe that the gun/cartridge is capable of doing it.
With the guns,ammo & optics that are out there today, in the hands of a person who knows his equipment in all honesty 500 yards really isn't that far.
My friend and myself regularly make called head shots with our handis in 204 with 32gr vmax on ground hogs at 300 yards.
Not all guns or shooters can do that but there are many who can and do on a regular basis.
I to like to get as close as possible before taking a shot on a game animal but it is nice knowing my equipment and myself are up to the task of a long shot if it need be.

LONGTOM

vanbuzen9 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2008, 02:48:53 AM »

Yes, modern high power rifles can shoot that far, and yes, I believe you guys can make these long shots, but you are making these shots from a very controlled benchrest-type situation. Based on my experience, when actually hunting, one seldom has a rest that is as good a one as one would use at a bench. Now, I don't want to highjack this thread, so I appologize if I have offended anybody. After all is said and done, and refering to the original poster, I am in the process of looking for a marlin 1894C in 357. Based on what a lot of people have said, it is there favorite plinking gun, and 38 specials can be loaded for cheap. Sounds good to me!

-vanbuzen9

LONGTOM · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2008, 10:33:54 AM »

No offence was taken at all.
Just a statement that with good guns & ammo and a shooter that knows his equipment and has practiced at longer ranges can get the job done.

The 300yd group with the 270 wsm was made leaning across the roof of my truck resting on my coat.
The 204 head shots are from various positions and angles while leaning or resting across my friends JD GATOR.
Yes we do miss on the head shots some times, but not very often.

Can't help you with the MARLIN 357, sorry.
I do have one in 38-55 I can't wait to try this fall.

LONGTOM

victorcharlie · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2008, 01:20:23 PM »

I'm another one who finds the nostalgia of a lever action magical.

For hunting the east Tennessee hardwoods, I most always go to my Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.

I did hunt a bolt action .270 a little last year while hunting the edges of a large wheat field.

no guns here · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2008, 01:13:19 AM »

I tell ya', I've spent some time and money amassing a small collection of "just gotta have one" bolt actions. My wife now realizes that I really buy guns because I want to buy a gun. I can't hunt with all of them. I really only need a couple... But with all that, I think I'm finished buying bolt guns unless I decide to get into varmints when I retire... nope got the AR for those. Yep, I'm through I think... I have a couple Marlin 45-70's in the safe but I think I'm going to concentrate on lever guns next. I'm getting nostalgic and I know that TV ain't real but I keep thinking how cool it would be to have a gun rack full of lever actions like on Bonanza or Gunsmoke...

ngh

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #22 on:** August 23, 2008, 02:29:22 AM »

Hey vanbuzen no offencse taken in your statment ,BUT, I can hit a 8" targent at 300yard offhand with my .308 I don't need a bench for that. And that isn't a heavy barreld bench gun eighter just a reworked 1923 mauser with a sporter barrel. All that being said, the longest shot I ever took on a white tail was 150yards with a single shoot .45-70. My levers are plenty good medicine for what I do, pistol cals included. That .308 don't get shot near as much as my .357 max NEF.

BTW If you can hit a paper plate at 300 offhand you can hit a deer in the vitals, you do not need a one inch group to do that. altho it helps.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 23, 2008, 05:43:55 AM »

You can hit a paper plate at 300 yards offhand? Every time?

That's some mighty impressive shooting. I'm lucky to keep 'em on a paper plate offhand at 100 yards.

Mike Britton · « **Reply #24 on:** August 23, 2008, 06:16:43 AM »

Vanbuzen, again, no offence taken, but you may want to spend a weekend watching the local NRA high-power guys make 8" groups out of TEN rounds at 300, RAPID FIRE, sitting on their butts.
300 yards IS a long shot, and because of my failing eyes, would never try one anymore, but it's certainly not out of the reach of many shooters, and IF one has practice at that range, and IF one is comfortable trying that range, a lot of lever calibers are plenty capable of doing the job.
Case in point is the .38-55/ .375 Winchester. 100 years ago, no one told those guys their .38-55 wouldn't work at that range. Imagine their surprise, when as old men they read in the magazines of the early '50's that lever guns were worthless beyond 110 yds.
I sure wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of even a .30-30 at 300.

Tom47 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2008, 04:10:02 AM »

I have purchased my last bolt action. I have about all that I need. I really enjoy hunting with a lever action. I have been trying to purchase a few of the older ones they seem to be beter made. I read something a couple of weeks ago on another board about Savage thinking about bringing the 99 back out in 2009. I have not seen anything since. I did notice in their catalog on page 42 they have a picture of an 99. Just hoping!!!!!!!!!!1

BBF · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2008, 06:11:58 AM »

If Savage does return the 99's I hope they can figure out a better trigger.

Mike Britton · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2008, 07:57:01 AM »

Being left handed, I got into lever actions early.
I have bolt guns, and used to shoot bolts in Palma, but my heart is in levers. To me, they carry easier, have better balance offhand, and have that look about them. A lot of them are chambered for cartridges capable of taking all North American game, and are still plentiful on the used gun market.
And you can use them from either side, which may not mean much until you have problems with one eye, or have a pacemaker installed, or any number of other body related issues come up.
Personally, I'm kinda partial to early Marlins.

Tencubed · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2008, 05:49:36 PM »

Quote from: vanbuzen9 on July 24, 2008, 07:35:03 AM

I think it's quite funny hearing people talk about 300 yard plus shots, and it's really funny hearing them talk about doing this with a lever action rifle, in any caliber. I personally would never take a shot that far, even with a bolt action rifle. At this range, it is more like "gambling" than hunting. Sure, you may hit an animal at that range, but it's not because your a good shot, it's because you got LUCKY. I have much more respect for a hunter that stalks to within a reasonable range than a hunter that takes pot shots across fields and gets lucky.

I respect your decision to stay within limitations you have set for yourself. More folks should be willing to respect the game they are hunting and do as you have done.

At the same time you should respect the time and practice that many hunters put in to be able to take the longer shots that present themselves. There are many folks well able to make called shots on game at 300 yards and even further. The trick is to know our equipment and what our personal limitations are. Like you, I no longer am comfortable with long range unless I have a scoped rifle and a very steady rest. Age and injuries have taken their toll in my case so the 1000 yard target shoots are a thing of the past. At least for any competitive level targets, still fun to shoot the long ranges but results are dismal.

You mention not taking a longer shot with a lever gun in any calibre. As one example of many possible I would have you consider the Model 95 Winchester in 30-06. Plenty of remaining energy and the accuracy at 300 yards is well within minute of deer. To condemn an entire family of rifles out of hand is, in my opinion, unwise at best and bordering on displaying a severe lack of knowledge and experience of the subject at hand.

Mike

Country Boy · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2008, 06:21:05 AM »

Vanbuzzin, no offence but It's not difficult to make a 300 yd shot with my Winchester 88 in .308,.284 or my .243. Don"t know about the Marlin but a Savage 99 will also do it. The guy is not just lucky he is a good shot. Matter of fact I've done it much farther than that on mule deer and antelope.
BUT, if I can get closer I will. I wouldn"t try it with my .358 win. but I use it in the thick stuff, wouldn"t hesitate to take a 200 yd shot though.