God I love this country

[stimpylu32]

Some say that the H&R / NEF brands of rifles and shotguns are junk because they are low cost , while others say they will not buy a Remington made H&R because they will be junk or that Remington imports guns from out of the country .

But yet some of these same people have no problem buying a Benelli shotgun or owning a Mauser actioned rifle , or even an SKS or Enfield .

Now for the point of this topic , In this country YOU have the right to chose what brand or type of gun YOU want , while not everyone will agree with your choices , THEY and YOU still have the choice .

So if you chose not to buy or own a certain brand , that's fine , You have that choice , but please don't insult me by telling me I can't make my own choice !

Richard

[nomosendero]

Yes, it is great that we at least have this freedom & are free to travel around the country as we wish or at least can afford.

[dpe.ahoy]

I got your back, stimpy.  I agree 100%.  Go to the post with our lady holding the torch, that is to light the way for others to come and be welcomed.  Freedom is what so many have given their lives for or years away from their loved ones.   You may not like what I say or do, but if doesn't infringe on your rights, go do your own thing and I'll do mine.  I was active duty Army 6 years, March 72 through March 78 and it damn sure wasn't for the pay.  DP.

[canon6]

+ 1,what you said, well spoken DP       Doug

[stimpylu32]

I'm not pointing this at any one person so don't take it that way . Ever since the Remington buyout was announced , there have been a ton of people saying that their not going to buy a new H&R just because of big green and the way they sell imported guns or because of them closing the Gardner plant .

Do I feel bad for the people that are loosing their jobs at Gardner ? Hell yes I do .

Do I think not buying a new H&R will make any diffrence ? not a fat chance , WHY ? because if we as americans do not support the companies that still make products in this country we will not have anything still Made In America 

Richard

[Rifleman1000]

Let me say that i never once in my posts said not to buy Remington.
I did say however that I WILL NOT BUY REMINGTON and gave my reasons.
I will also say i think that the closing of H&R is a sad day in the History of H&R.
If you think you want to buy Remington go ahead nothing i said should change your mind.
If you think H&R is Junk then don't buy it.
I personally think H&R guns are a good Buy for the Money.
Once again i apologize for going off on a rant about Remington but i feel there selling garbage with there Brand name and its a Big Mistake.
I hold out hope for the future of H&R i really do .
But i am very sceptical of Remington's Policies in the last few years.

[dpe.ahoy]

Stimpy's not pointing fingers.  There is a thread here that has beat this to death about only buying American made product, yet truth be known, there is little out there that is truely 100% American.  Pop the hood on any Chevy, Ford ect and check out the various parts under there.  Does Midway, Natchez, Brownells only sell American?   What about Cabella's?   One thing for certain, light travels faster than sound, that is why people look smart until they speak.  DP.

[LONGTOM]

I back all of the above posters and their comments.
I have never decried REMINGTON in any way.
I own and use an 1100,870,4 model 30s,5 rolling blocks.
All are good guns.
That being said I will tell you something about BIG GREEN that they are starting to do in relation to their warranties.
A friend just paid around $1200 for a new target model REMINGTON in 22-250.
I do not know which model it was, maybe some of you do.
The just is the thing will not shoot under 2.5" with any of the factory ammos.
My friend took it to his local gunsmith to check the bedding, which was fine.
While there they checked the crown and found three spots where the rifling had been pulled or torn just inside the muzzle.
The smith said it needed to be cut and re-crowned.
Send it back to REMINGTON.
A call to BIG GREEN and was they asked him if it shoot under 3 ( THREE ) inches.
When he told them 2.5 the said it was within there specs.
This is suppose to be a target model.
They also asked if he had done any work to the gun and he said he had the trigger adjusted.
They refused to tale it back on the grounds that it shoot within there specs and he had done work on it.
The dealer he bought it from will not take it back either because REMINGTON told him they would not fix it under warranty.
If this is their policy then I will not be buying any more REMINGTONS.
Just something to think about.


LONGTOM
 

[nodlenor]

This day and age it would be hard to survive without buying something not made in the good ole USA.

I wish more things were made here but there are some good products made elsewhere. It isn't all junk.

Let's face it there is junk made here too.

[LaOtto222]

Personally, I am waiting to see how this all plays out with Remington. Who knows, maybe Remington will have the process down to a point of every barrel fitting every frame. No more fitting, like T/C barrels. Then again maybe not. Are the barrel making going to be the same or will they be hammer forged. Maybe there will be no barrel program. I am sure it will be a marketing/cost decision, it always is. After all like it or not it is all about money. Companies will not last long if they do not make money. There has been much speculation about how Remington is going to ruin Marlin/H&R. I think we need to wait and find out. As far as Remington is concerned, I have never dealt with them. I own Remington guns, but I have never had a problem with them to have to deal with customer service. I can not say that about other manufacturers. I personally have dealt with T/C on different issues and I have been very pleased with their products and service. Yet I have heard of people saying that T/C turns out junk, especially their barrels. Barrels are a funny thing. A company can turn out thousands just fine and then one pops up that isn't worth a hoot. People have said they had bad experiences with Remington and I believe them. But for every one that says they are bad, I have seen others that swear by them. Just look in the section under Remington and you will find lots of folks that are strong believers in Remington. Graybeard is a Remington man. He and many, many others would not feel this way if Remington was putting out junk. While it is sad that good people are loosing their jobs in Gardner, there are other folks gaining jobs or at least retaining their jobs. Remington did not force Marlin to sell. Marlin was for sale and Remington happened to buy them. Would you feel better if a Chinese conglomerate bought them? I am with Stimpy. It is wonderful that we have the choice. Personally I do not spent $1000+ on a gun. I would rather buy a cheaper model and if does not shoot as well as I like then spend more money on customizing it with a better barrel or trigger, stock, what ever I want and still not have as much money in it as the guy trying to buy accuracy out of the box. That is MY choice. Remington has made hundreds of thousands, if not millions of accurate rifles right out of the box that are reliable as the day is long. If you do not want to deal with Remington, then that is your choice. There are also people that will not deal with Ruger, or Savage or what ever, that is THEIR choice. That is what makes this country great. Good shooting and Good Luck to all of you.

[Graybeard]

I have to question the accuracy of the facts in this case. I've NEVER EVER seen a Remington rifle of any type that would not beat 3" groups at 100 yards and that is definitely NOT Remington's standard of accuracy.

If it's a true target rifle meaning a 40X which I doubt as that's kinda cheap for a 40X but grossly expensive it seems to me for any of their other rifles on the M700 action unless from the Custom Shop then their standards are much tighter. In fact I think 1/2" is the norm for all 40X guns and yes they have a stated accuracy level each 40X must meet to be sold. In the .224" guns I think it's more like 1/4" it has to shoot.

I suspect someone's not giving you truthful info on this deal.

I back all of the above posters and their comments.
I have never decried REMINGTON in any way.
I own and use an 1100,870,4 model 30s,5 rolling blocks.
All are good guns.
That being said I will tell you something about BIG GREEN that they are starting to do in relation to their warranties.
A friend just paid around $1200 for a new target model REMINGTON in 22-250.
I do not know which model it was, maybe some of you do.
The just is the thing will not shoot under 2.5" with any of the factory ammos.
My friend took it to his local gunsmith to check the bedding, which was fine.
While there they checked the crown and found three spots where the rifling had been pulled or torn just inside the muzzle.
The smith said it needed to be cut and re-crowned.
Send it back to REMINGTON.
A call to BIG GREEN and was they asked him if it shoot under 3 ( THREE ) inches.
When he told them 2.5 the said it was within there specs.
This is suppose to be a target model.
They also asked if he had done any work to the gun and he said he had the trigger adjusted.
They refused to tale it back on the grounds that it shoot within there specs and he had done work on it.
The dealer he bought it from will not take it back either because REMINGTON told him they would not fix it under warranty.
If this is their policy then I will not be buying any more REMINGTONS.
Just something to think about.


LONGTOM
 

[Tencubed]

I was surprised as well at the group sizes mentioned.  Even the old 760 and 742 Remingtons I have will hold an inch or dang close to it with factory ammo.  Something really amiss about this.  It could happen but I would be amazed about Remington saying 3" was an acceptable group.  Misunderstanding somewhere along the line I suspect.

Mike

[nomosendero]

Target model, which one?

[LONGTOM]

Unfortunatly I do not know which target model.
Not being a REMINGTON man I don't keep up with their models.
I did find out today from my hunting buddy who also hunts with this guy that he was so POed about the whole thing that he sold the gun late last night to someone at about $300.00 less than he paid for it.
He went out this morning and bought a new TIKI?
Don't know any details about this brand.
Have never owned one.
I do know that this man is the type who doesn't mind putting out big bucks for a good shooter.
He also believes that a good gun should shoot reasonably well out of the box.
Maybe not MOA but 2'' or better with the right ammo.
My felling is some will and some won't!
You never know.
My handi 204 would do three shots under a dime at 100 with 32gr VMAX right out of the box and still does with no adjustments done to it at all.
My 45-70 handi will cut holes at 50 and three within 1.5" at 100 with WIN 300gr HPs out of the box.
My next one might be a dog, who knows.
I hope not!


LONGTOM

[wanderer]

I'm with Graybeard, something is fishy. I worked at a gun shop for a couple years and we sent back a Remington not long ago (a .223 VSF, I think, but I can't recall for sure). The owner said he couldn't get it to shoot below about 2 inches, IIRC. We sent it to Remington, who gladly took it, and they rebarreled it free of charge. Now, I doubt they would have rebarreled it if it was a sporter model, but it was a heavy barreled varmint model.

[LONGTOM]

I almost forgot, I was at the gunsmiths shop this morning who checked the gun and he had the targets from this gun on hand. The best group was 2.45". The worst was 3.22". While talking to him he did confirm that the rifleing did have three places just inside the chrown that looked like there was some damage. He could not say how the damage got there. He didn't know anything about what was said in the phone call to REMINGTON. The gunshop owner where he bought the TIKI this morning told him that he knew the CEO at REMINGTON and gave him a call. The CEO told him to send it back and they would take a look at it. I don't have any other details. If I find out anything else I will post it.


LONGTOM

[Warthog]

I do not like Remington products simply because I have personally had poor luck and service with them.  Having said that, just because Remmy has bought Marlin and H&R will not keep me from still buyin' and tryin' them.  I'm wanting to get my hands on one of those stainless Ultra's in 45-70!!